Cold Crash off flavors AFTER bottling

[rtstrider]

I was wanting to get some advice from those that cold crash. I have tried cold crashing both a lager (well I guess the technical term is I "lagered" a lager) and a blonde ale. The lager used Saflager w34/70 and the blonde was us-05. I racked these brews over to a sterilized carboy before cold crashing and used a three piece airlock in a carboy stopper covered with sanitized foil until the temps stabilized to keep the amount of sanitizer sucked down to a minimum. I cold crashed at 32F for 3 weeks both times after adding gelatin. There's something in my process that ends up with VERY cloudy wort. I BIAB and do not whirlpool but I use Whirlfloc at the 10 minute mark each brew with both a good hot and cold break. I dump all the trub in the fermenter. Anywho back on topic. I taste tested both of these brews before and after cold crashing and they both tasted just fine without any off flavors. The off flavors came AFTER bottling. I kept my process the same as I have before and after these brews (boil the priming solution, etc). So I'm thinking this may be a stressed yeast issue or maybe oxidation? Anywho (I'm not TOO familiar with oxidation or stressed yeast so forgive me lol) the lager has a very strong fruit ester while the blonde is much more subtle fruit. The best way to explain it is a weird pear/bubblegum ester in both. The guys at the homebrew shop say that typically happens when there's not enough yeast but I wanted to see if anyone else had run into this? Btw I have saved some brews prior to these batches and have brewed a few batches after these. Neither have this off flavor so it's something to do with the cold crashing effect.

My other question is I would like to brew another lager (warm ferment w34/70) but instead of bulk lagering would it be possible to bottle after fermentation and just lager in the bottles?

Edit: Also wanted to mention on the lager batch I bottled while the beer was cold right out of the cold crash. I racked the blonde over to the bottling bucket and let it warm up for a day or so (with a lid and airlock on the bucket) until it was around 70F just to rule out yeast shock due to temp changes

 

[GPP33]

Never heard of fruity flavors coming from cold crashing, oxidation can bring on sherry like flavors, but I’m here to see what others with more experience say. Could the ferm temps have climbed a little high?

 

[kh54s10]

New to cold crashing, so a reply to get this in my watched list.

The few that I have done, I didn't notice any off flavors, certainly not fruit. Nothing that I would attribute to the cold crash.

One question though, on the blonde why 3 weeks cold crash? A couple of days should do the trick.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

I think I may have followed this right. You're cold crashing for 3 weeks at 32 degrees and then you're going to self carbonate in a bottle with priming sugar? At 3 weeks at 32 degrees you might have killed your yeast or hurt it real bad

 

[brewgar]

^^ What he said.

 

[rtstrider]

New to cold crashing, so a reply to get this in my watched list.

The few that I have done, I didn't notice any off flavors, certainly not fruit. Nothing that I would attribute to the cold crash.

One question though, on the blonde why 3 weeks cold crash? A couple of days should do the trick.

My wort is cloudy as heck and that's how long it took those batches . I haven't messed with whirlpooling and such yet so I'm thinking you guys are right about the yeast puttering out. So my next question could I just lager in the bottles instead of lagering the whole batch? Meaning lager/cold crash in the bottles after they've carbed up?

 

[kh54s10]

I am really surprised that a blonde would stay cloudy even without cold crashing. I have done 101 batches and cold crashed only 4 - 5 of them. Most of the others were pretty clear on their own by day 14, some were slightly cloudy throughout but tasted really good anyway. Some of those, both clear and cloudy sat in primary for about a month a few longer than that.

Did you add more yeast after cold crashing and before bottling. If you didn't the cold crash did not kill the yeast. It might have stressed them though. As long as the yeast will carbonate the bottles I don't see that you have to lager in bulk. This might not solve the problem of off flavors though.

Your off flavors may include oxidation but that would be wet cardboard, not fruit. I'm at a loss.

 

[rtstrider]

I am really surprised that a blonde would stay cloudy even without cold crashing. I have done 101 batches and cold crashed only 4 - 5 of them. Most of the others were pretty clear on their own by day 14, some were slightly cloudy throughout but tasted really good anyway. Some of those, both clear and cloudy sat in primary for about a month a few longer than that.

Did you add more yeast after cold crashing and before bottling. If you didn't the cold crash did not kill the yeast. It might have stressed them though. As long as the yeast will carbonate the bottles I don't see that you have to lager in bulk. This might not solve the problem of off flavors though.

Your off flavors may include oxidation but that would be wet cardboard, not fruit. I'm at a loss.

I'm going to bring one of these beers to the homebrew store next grain order and have them taste it. Hopefully they can give some insight! Only reason I'm not leaning towards oxidation is this only happens after the bottles have primed but I could be wrong.

 

[kh54s10]

I'm going to bring one of these beers to the homebrew store next grain order and have them taste it. Hopefully they can give some insight! Only reason I'm not leaning towards oxidation is this only happens after the bottles have primed but I could be wrong.

Since this happens during bottling lead more TO oxidation than away from it. But the off flavors described do not match what is usually described as oxidization off flavors. Has the beer darkened any since bottling? That is a sign of oxidation also.

 

[rtstrider]

Since this happens during bottling lead more TO oxidation than away from it. But the off flavors described do not match what is usually described as oxidization off flavors. Has the beer darkened any since bottling? That is a sign of oxidation also.

It very well could be oxidation but I do not believe it has darkened. Maybe I'd be better off cold crashing in the bottles for the time being? The plan is to move up to kegging WAY down the line but until then guessing that would be a good stop gap for cold conditioning eh?

 

[kh54s10]

Try cold crashing without transferring to another carboy. That would eliminate a source of possible oxidation. I haven't used a secondary for a few years and that was when adding fruit that would have been very difficult to add to my primary.

Use an S style airlock so that it can bubble in reverse without sucking in any sanitizer. My last one, I forgot to switch out my blow off hose to an airlock. But, I did take the temperature down 5-10 degrees every couple of hours to slow the temperature change. It did not suck back.