CO2 Quick Disconnect?

[ninkwood]

I'm in the process of designing a 4 keg Keezer. The CO2 tank and regulator that I use to pour from will be connected to a 4-way manifold.

However I also want to be able to use this same CO2 tank outside the Keezer for various tasks such as pressure fermenting or pressure transferring beer. Since I am still in the planning stage of this project, I'd like to eliminate the potential headache of struggling to disconnect the CO2 tank/regulator from the manifold each and every time I want to move it to use it somewhere else in my brewery.

I'm leaning towards keeping the CO2 tank outside the keezer in order to maximize the space inside for beer, and also to make the tank easier to maneuver.

My question: What is the most convenient way to accomplish connecting and disconnecting the CO2 tank from the gas distribution manifold? Ideally, I'd like something that I could mount to the exterior of the keezer, like a corny keg ball lock fitting.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

My vote would be to just buy a second CO2 tank and regulator if you plan on always having a tank connected inside the keezer.

If you really want to use the single tank, one simple (non elegant) solution if you wanted to make a ball like post connection to a peice of tubing would be to purchase one of these plastic kegland carb caps. If your system is already EVA Barrier / Duotight this would work very easily. You can jam 4MM ID X 8MM OD tubing to the end of the barb and it will hold a seal

https://www.morebeer.com/products/c...RRmYsNeU4BxsAWzPRxVsQChAfj75fakxoC99sQAvD_BwE
There are also similar carb caps in stainless steel that take 3/16" or 1/4" ID tubing to a 1/4" barb. Not sure what size tubing you are dealing with though.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/carbonation-line-cleaning-ball-lock-cap-stainless.html

 

[ninkwood]

that's a very simple solution indeed! I'm aware of these components, but I might prefer to go with something a little more durable. For now, its good enough to know that there is a simple solution.

Perhaps one day I'll get a second tank, but as I am just starting out that is a lot of extra expense that I'd rather spend elsewhere!

Thank you for your help!

 

[Deric]

These

I have a spare tank and regulator but still have these attached to both so swapping is easy.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

that's a very simple solution indeed! I'm aware of these components, but I might prefer to go with something a little more durable. For now, its good enough to know that there is a simple solution.

Perhaps one day I'll get a second tank, but as I am just starting out that is a lot of extra expense that I'd rather spend elsewhere!

Thank you for your help!

Nowadays, I almost never have my tank connected in the keezer. I prime all my kegs with sugar and disconnect CO2 between servings. Keeps the exposure to O2 down.

Anytime a keg is connected (liquid or gas) there is oxygen ingress. I'm not a daily drinker though. If you are getting schwilled off your homebrew daily and always wanted it connected, this wouldn't be an option for you.

I only have a single tank, but this works for my needs. I have a bunch of manifolds that I never use anymore LOL. Just a dual regulator with two ball lock QDs is all I use nowadays (almost always disconnected)

Whenever I do want to utilize my manifolds (for hosting a party or something) its easy enough for me to connect them since all my fittings are push fit / duotight. Duotights aren't really meant for frequent connecting/disconnecting, but doing it occasionally is fine.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

These

I have a spare tank and regulator but still have these attached to both so swapping is easy.

I use something similar on my glycol chiller tubing, never considered using them for gas. Love it! Although, don't think it would work with duotight / pushfit

 

[Deric]

I know a lot of people have had success fitting 1/4" barbs to 4mm ID EVAbrarrier tubing. My quick disconnects are a 3/8" barb that I bought from McMaster Carr. My regulators all have 3/8" barbs too. When I converted to EVAbarrier I used the larger 6.3mm ID tubing to the manifold and 4mm ID from the manifold to the kegs.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

another option would be to convert the ports on you your manifolds to duotight push fit connectors. You should be OK disconnecting the push fit connectors from the tubing if doing this occasionally. The EVA barrier tubing is the way to go IMO to prevent oxidation.

If your regulator & manifolds have MFL connections you can get duotight adapters.

Also if the input to your manifold is like mine, you can also get an adapter for it (see second link below, but check the sizing for your manifold.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/d...tITA8_qYGJqEgFolrqFzqiiHUR8A1edBoCmFsQAvD_BwE
https://www.morebeer.com/products/d...tITA8_qYGJqEgFolrqFzqiiHUR8A1edBoCmFsQAvD_BwE

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I know a lot of people have had success fitting 1/4" barbs to 4mm ID EVAbrarrier tubing. My quick disconnects are a 3/8" barb that I bought from McMaster Carr. My regulators all have 3/8" barbs too. When I converted to EVAbarrier I used the larger 6.3mm ID tubing to the manifold and 4mm ID from the manifold to the kegs.

Nice! Didn't realize you could jam that larger tubing on there! Good stuff!

 

[camonick]

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/mfl14bulkheadgas.htm

 

[Deric]

When I converted to EVAbarrier and Duotight I looked into changing the hose barbs on my regulators to 1/4" MFL. I knew I wanted to keep quick disconnects on all the lines and in the end it was much cheaper to use the bigger tubing and convert down since I had all the other parts.

If I were doing it from scratch... I'd use all 1/4" MFL fittings with Duotight connecters AND the MoreBeer quick disconnects. They are cheaper than the McMaster ones and the convenience is nice. If I need to change tanks I don't have to open the kegerator to turn off the manifold.

Also on my spare tank, I have a couple different hoses that I can connect as needed.

 

[Graham H]

I hooked up a ball lock pass-through (same one @camonick showed). I keep my CO2 bottle on the outside of my keezer, and the fitting makes it very easy to (dis)connect.

Edit: added pics

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/mfl14bulkheadgas.htm

That's slick! Didn't know it existed

Brewhardware.com rocks!

 

[ninkwood]

wow, thanks for all the help here, folks! I'm learning a ton! It looks like there are multiple good options for me to explore further.

You guys mention EVA tubing a few times. I was under the impression that EVA tubing is just used on the liquid side, but I get the sense I am wrong about that?

 

[BongoYodeler]

I use EVAbarrier tubing and MFL connections throughout, and keep my 20# tank outside my keezer. I just tee-d off my CO2 line before it goes into my keezer. I put a shut-off and and a gas QD on the exterior line.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

wow, thanks for all the help here, folks! I'm learning a ton! It looks like there are multiple good options for me to explore further.

You guys mention EVA tubing a few times. I was under the impression that EVA tubing is just used on the liquid side, but I get the sense I am wrong about that?

Yeah it is the best option IMO for both liquid & gas due to oxygen barrier.

For the liquid side you generally want to use the 4mm ID unless your lines are ridiculously long.

For gas the ID doesn't really matter. You can use the 4mm ID for both to keep it simple.

I do like using the larger ID tubing though for pressure transfers on liquid line as its much quicker due to less resistance. For serving lines you want the smaller ID

 

[Broken Crow]

Just to add to the "What works for me..." I did the same thing with my first kegerator and after running out of CO2 just before the store closed for the weekend (Twice!..and both times a long-weekend!) I decided it would be in my best interest to get another regulator and tank. Transfers, and sanitizing/purging practices can use up a lot of CO2 and how much is not easily predictable. Plus; having a Utility-CO2 rig means that if the kegerator runs out, I have one on hand I can swap it for.
That said, it looks like you're in Canada so here's some bits for your consideration:
https://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-inline-gas-disconnect-m.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-inline-gas-disconnect-f.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-gas-disconnect-barb.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-gas-disconnect-coupler.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-qd-gas-nipple-brass.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-qd-gas-brass.html

 

[simbabrew]

To make Duotights and Evabarrier tubing easier to connect and reconnect, add a dap of keg lube to the end of the Evabarrier tubing right before you insert it into a duotight fitting. Makes it much easier to connect and disconnect.

 

[ninkwood]

Yeah it is the best option IMO for both liquid & gas due to oxygen barrier.

For the liquid side you generally want to use the 4mm ID unless your lines are ridiculously long.

For gas the ID doesn't really matter. You can use the 4mm ID for both to keep it simple.

I do like using the larger ID tubing though for pressure transfers on liquid line as its much quicker due to less resistance. For serving lines you want the smaller ID

regarding line length, I like you do not plan on drinking a ton of beer on a daily basis, so my initial thoughts are to reduce the length of the beer lines to as short as possible (1-2 feet) in order to keep more beer in the keg where it belongs. If I do this along with flow control and CO2 dampeners on each tap/line, my thought is that I'll be able to adjust the pour for each beer to make sure they each pour well regardless of line length/ID . Am I on the right track here, or is there "no substitute" for proper hose length?

 

[ninkwood]

Just to add to the "What works for me..." I did the same thing with my first kegerator and after running out of CO2 just before the store closed for the weekend (Twice!..and both times a long-weekend!) I decided it would be in my best interest to get another regulator and tank. Transfers, and sanitizing/purging practices can use up a lot of CO2 and how much is not easily predictable. Plus; having a Utility-CO2 rig means that if the kegerator runs out, I have one on hand I can swap it for.
That said, it looks like you're in Canada so here's some bits for your consideration:
https://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-inline-gas-disconnect-m.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-inline-gas-disconnect-f.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-gas-disconnect-barb.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-gas-disconnect-coupler.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-qd-gas-nipple-brass.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-qd-gas-brass.html

thank you!!!

yeah, 2 tanks is the ultimate goal, but as you all know this is an expensive hobby. I have better uses for that $300 for the time being, but eventually I'll likely get a 2nd tank.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

regarding line length, I like you do not plan on drinking a ton of beer on a daily basis, so my initial thoughts are to reduce the length of the beer lines to as short as possible (1-2 feet) in order to keep more beer in the keg where it belongs. If I do this along with flow control and CO2 dampeners on each tap/line, my thought is that I'll be able to adjust the pour for each beer to make sure they each pour well regardless of line length/ID . Am I on the right track here, or is there "no substitute" for proper hose length?

You don't need super long lines with the 4mm because they have a lot of resistance. Line length will depend on serving pressure and carbonation volume of the particular beer. 2 feet seems a little short. But test out different lengths and see what works.

I'm an advocate of fully disconnecting the liquid line & gas line from the keg between servings assuming beer is already carbonated. Then when you reconnect just dump the first few drops sitting in the line.

Nowadays I use a picnic tap 2.0 that doesn't even require a line. However this requires me opening the keezer to serve. I've gotten lazy and prefer avoiding cleaning lines, so I rarely ever use my fancier intertap faucets unless I'm hosting a party or something

Also, don't forget to purge the air out of your CO2 lines before hooking up to a keg. You can depress the QD with your finger or a carb cap to release the O2/CO2

The flow control faucets don't really work that well IMO. Using that is no substitution for proper line length

 

[ninkwood]

I'm an advocate of fully disconnecting the liquid line & gas line from the keg between servings assuming beer is already carbonated. Then when you reconnect just dump the first few drops sitting in the line.

I like this idea too, especially for the "off season" when I won't be hosting many friends/family. However, I am still an absolute stickler for convenience and efficiency so I want to make sure I build my system out with these things in mind even if I end up using it like you do most of the time!

Given all these precautions you take, how long does your beer keep?

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I like this idea too, especially for the "off season" when I won't be hosting many friends/family. However, I am still an absolute stickler for convenience and efficiency so I want to make sure I build my system out with these things in mind even if I end up using it like you do most of the time!

Given all these precautions you take, how long does your beer keep?

I'm pretty crazy on the LODO stuff so my beers last for many months

YMMV depending on your practice for purging closed transfers etc.

There's a ton of OCD type stuff I have implemented on the cold side to mitigate O2 ingress. Closed transfers of purged kegs with naturally carbonating kegs with priming sugar has definitely kicked up my shelf life.

I inject priming sugar using a 500ml syringe into the gas post and ensure no air sneaks in when I add the priming sugar. Don't want to take this thread on a tangent, but if interested send me a DM and I can show you what I do. The secondary fermentation in the keg scrubs any residual O2 from the xfer, plus the CO2 is purer and doesn't contain trace instances of O2 like bottled CO2

For hoppier beers 5g of ascorbic acid when either dry hopping or kegging alsona good idea

You should also consider switching the O rings on your kegs (especially the large one on the lid) to EPDM instead of Silicone. Silicone is highly permeable and only takes a few weeks to allow Disolved Oxygen levels to get to the point of staling

 

[wsmith1625]

Are you looking for something like this? An even cheaper solution might be replacing the low pressure input on your current manifold with a ball lock post.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Are you looking for something like this? An even cheaper solution might be replacing the low pressure input on your current manifold with a ball lock post.

View attachment 830374



View attachment 830376

That is badass! Another thing I didn't know existed. Think I like this solution the best

 

[wsmith1625]

That is badass! Another thing I didn't know existed. Think I like this solution the best

I think having a ball lock on the line in would be really nice, but on the lines out, I would miss having shutoff valves. Having to disengage the quick disconnect to stop co2 flow may be a pia.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I think having a ball lock on the line in would be really nice, but on the lines out, I would miss having shutoff valves. Having to disengage the quick disconnect to stop co2 flow may be a pia.

That's a good point. It would be nice to have the ball lock on the input to the manifold with the shut off valves on the outposts

My current shut off valves also have built in check valves to prevent liquid from blowing back in the manifold. Something that would also be missing if you went full ball lock on the outposts.

I run in line check valves on all my gas lines too.

 

[ninkwood]

I'm pretty crazy on the LODO stuff so my beers last for many months

YMMV depending on your practice for purging closed transfers etc.

There's a ton of OCD type stuff I have implemented on the cold side to mitigate O2 ingress. Closed transfers of purged kegs with naturally carbonating kegs with priming sugar has definitely kicked up my shelf life.

I inject priming sugar using a 500ml syringe into the gas post and ensure no air sneaks in when I add the priming sugar. Don't want to take this thread on a tangent, but if interested send me a DM and I can show you what I do. The secondary fermentation in the keg scrubs any residual O2 from the xfer, plus the CO2 is purer and doesn't contain trace instances of O2 like bottled CO2

For hoppier beers 5g of ascorbic acid when either dry hopping or kegging alsona good idea

You should also consider switching the O rings on your kegs (especially the large one on the lid) to EPDM instead of Silicone. Silicone is highly permeable and only takes a few weeks to allow Disolved Oxygen levels to get to the point of staling

Very interesting, this is definitely something I want to strive towards. I want to have 2-3 beers on hand at all times, but for 8 months of the year I am the only beer drinker in the house... I want to balance what I deem to be an appropriate amount of alcohol intake with not being wasteful, so I'm definitely interested in this tangent. If you are familiar with the Kegland Corny kegs... Are these seals any good, or pure marketing?

Maybe I'll start a new thread if we continue down this road, but frankly I've already learned a ton from you here! I really appreciate it - just knowing that its possible to extend the shelf life is enough for me for right now. One of my local breweries told me 30 days was the max shelf life of the kegs they sell. I figured most of that was to protect themselves from careless consumers, but didn't have anything else to go off of at the time.

 

[ninkwood]

Are you looking for something like this? An even cheaper solution might be replacing the low pressure input on your current manifold with a ball lock post.

View attachment 830374



View attachment 830376

hmm this is also a great idea! I didn't realize that manifolds came with ball lock posts, but that would definitely be an option as well. One goal I have is to physically mount a post to the outside of the keezer rather than have a floppy line running through the side. I thought about just getting a bigger manifold, mounting it outside the keezer, and then dedicating a line on it to "misc." uses, but the problems with that idea are 1) I want to be able to use my CO2 tank elsewhere, like in the yard for example and 2) I dont want to have 4 lines going into the keezer when I can just have one.

 

[ninkwood]

I think having a ball lock on the line in would be really nice, but on the lines out, I would miss having shutoff valves. Having to disengage the quick disconnect to stop co2 flow may be a pia.

yeah I totally agree, its only really necessary on the line-in atleast for me anyways!

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Very interesting, this is definitely something I want to strive towards. I want to have 2-3 beers on hand at all times, but for 8 months of the year I am the only beer drinker in the house... I want to balance what I deem to be an appropriate amount of alcohol intake with not being wasteful, so I'm definitely interested in this tangent. If you are familiar with the Kegland Corny kegs... Are these seals any good, or pure marketing?

View attachment 830398
Maybe I'll start a new thread if we continue down this road, but frankly I've already learned a ton from you here! I really appreciate it - just knowing that its possible to extend the shelf life is enough for me for right now. One of my local breweries told me 30 days was the max shelf life of the kegs they sell. I figured most of that was to protect themselves from careless consumers, but didn't have anything else to go off of at the time.

Not familiar with the kegland kegs, but pretty sure its just EPDM rubber on the O rings. You can buy EPDM O rings from here that would fit most corny kegs


https://www.homebrewfinds.com/hands-on-review-valuebrews-epdm-keg-o-rings/

You should pressure test though. Generally the larger O rings will seal all keg lids just fine. The smaller o rings for the gas post and liquid post can be more finicky depending on the brand of keg.


Kegland makes good and innovative stuff in general so I'd assume those are quality.

Most if my kegs are the "old ale" brand from adventures in homebrewing. Those tend to be pretty universal in terms of parts.

I'd recommend avoiding the "torpedo" brand kegs. They can be a PITA for customizing with floating diptubes and other parts as the posts ans o rings aren't as universal

 

[mac_1103]

If you are familiar with the Kegland Corny kegs... Are these seals any good, or pure marketing?

They do what Kegland claims they do. But keep in mind that the testing, while rigorous, was comparing them to silicone rather than other less O2 permeable gaskets, like EPDM or Buna-N. They probably shouldn't have been selling kegs with silicone gaskets for all these years.

 

[IslandLizard]

Just to add to the "What works for me..." I did the same thing with my first kegerator and after running out of CO2 just before the store closed for the weekend (Twice!..and both times a long-weekend!) I decided it would be in my best interest to get another regulator and tank. Transfers, and sanitizing/purging practices can use up a lot of CO2 and how much is not easily predictable. Plus; having a Utility-CO2 rig means that if the kegerator runs out, I have one on hand I can swap it for.
That said, it looks like you're in Canada so here's some bits for your consideration:
https://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-inline-gas-disconnect-m.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-inline-gas-disconnect-f.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-gas-disconnect-barb.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-gas-disconnect-coupler.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-qd-gas-nipple-brass.htmlhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/micro-qd-gas-brass.html

Except the pricing on those fittings seems crazy...
$19 for each male or female end. $40 for a complete coupler set? And those are just plastic ones!

 

[mac_1103]

pretty sure its just EPDM rubber on the O rings

I dunno:

Low2 O-Rings are the new golden yellow standard of homebrew kegs brought to you by KegLand Australia. Why? Because of their unique composition (Synthetic M-Class and Cross-Linked Elastomers), they have superior oxygen barrier properties than that of the previus O-Rings (Silicone). This results in your beverage staying fresher for longer.

Maybe someone who did better in chemistry than I did can weigh in.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I dunno:

Low2 O-Rings are the new golden yellow standard of homebrew kegs brought to you by KegLand Australia. Why? Because of their unique composition (Synthetic M-Class and Cross-Linked Elastomers), they have superior oxygen barrier properties than that of the previus O-Rings (Silicone). This results in your beverage staying fresher for longer.

Maybe someone who did better in chemistry than I did can weigh in.

Kegland is pretty responsive if we sent them an email. I could ask them how they compare to EPDM or BunaN. Now we're going down a tangent LOL

 

[ninkwood]

Except the pricing on those fittings seems crazy...
$19 for each male or female end. $40 for a complete coupler set? And those are just plastic ones!

welcome to Canada

But yeah, even considering the general markup on this kind of stuff up here, these are stupidly expensive. I can order from the USA, but most cases shipping (on small orders) or duties (on large orders) make it unneccesary. Sometimes we just have to bite the bullet

 

[ninkwood]

Kegland is pretty responsive if we sent them an email. I could ask them how they compare to EPDM or BunaN. Now we're going down a tangent LOL

well then I hope @mac_1103 did better in math class than chemistry!

The important thing for me right now is knowing what to look for. You guys are helping me immensely and I really appreciate it!

 

[IslandLizard]

welcome to Canada

But yeah, even considering the general markup on this kind of stuff up here, these are stupidly expensive. I can order from the USA, but most cases shipping (on small orders) or duties (on large orders) make it unneccesary. Sometimes we just have to bite the bullet

I wonder if using regular air compressor couplers could work in this application. Most of those fittings will be brass, but there may be stainless ones too.

I still think the 1/4" MFL bulkhead with the ball lock post on it as shown in @Graham H's post in #11 is the most elegant solution. Yeah, there's yet another ball lock fitting involved you need to keep an eye on for leaks, otherwise it's straight forward.

 

[day_trippr]

I use "air compressor couplers" with my compressed air tools and compressor and generally they are not trustworthy to hold gas one has to purchase. Ie: they leak, often badly.

I went with 1/4" MFL bulkheads through the back of my keezer and topped with ball luck posts, two for CO2, one for beer gas, one to fill my glass rinser reservoir keg and another to vent the rinser waste water catching keg. And all three brewery fridges have bulkheads and posts for CO2 for keg conditioning, cold crash guardians, etc..

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

I use "air compressor couplers" with my compressed air tools and compressor and generally they are not trustworthy to hold gas one has to purchase. Ie: they leak, often badly.

That's what I feared being the case.
Scrap the air compressor fittings idea!