Cleanup IPA - Recipe Critique

[jamboparty]

Hey folks! I'm doing a bit of homebrew housecleaning this weekend, and I'd like to gather some thoughts on a 'cleanup' recipe I'm throwing together:

OG: 1.058
FG: 1.014
ABV: 5.7%
SRM: 11
IBU: 56
Yeast: US-05

Volume: 5.5 Gallons

58.3% Briess Pale Ale Malt
31.2% Maris Otter
4.2% CaraPils
4.2% Crystal 60
2.1% Crystal 120

1 oz Columbus @ 45 min (43 IBU)
.5 oz Centennial @ 20 min (10 IBU)
.5 oz Amarillo @ 5 min (3 IBU)


Dry Hop

1.5 oz Centennial
.5 oz Amarillo


Does this seem like a decent use of what grains and hops I have laying around? Do you have an idea on how to better utilize them? I do have other hops and grains in storage, so if it's a "Oh, too bad you don't have some X" situation, throw it out there! I may have it.

Thanks for your time!

 

[specharka]

Pale Ale malt is the same thing as Maris Otter. (American 2-row is also known as "Pale Malt").

I would scrap the 20 and 5 minute hop additions and use them to perform a 30-minute whirlpool for a rounder hop flavor.

 

[jamboparty]

Pale Ale malt is the same thing as Maris Otter. (American 2-row is also known as "Pale Malt").

I would scrap the 20 and 5 minute hop additions and use them to perform a 30-minute whirlpool for a rounder hop flavor.

I know what you're saying about the maris otter. It's not in there for complexity, it's in there because I have that much of it laying around that i'd like to clean up.

I like the idea of the whirlpool. Thank you!

 

[mblanks2]

Pale Ale malt is the same thing as Maris Otter. (American 2-row is also known as "Pale Malt").

I would scrap the 20 and 5 minute hop additions and use them to perform a 30-minute whirlpool for a rounder hop flavor.

While Pale Ale and MO are both base malts, they aren't the same thing. IMO, noticeably different taste.
That said, the blend you have should provide some complexity over just 2 row. I believe you would be better served to reduce the amount of crystal malts to 5% or less unless your looking for significant residual sweetness and bump up your base to keep the ABV the same. With 10.5% crystal I would expect this to be cloyingly sweet.
Hops schedule looks ok, though I've never mixed Centennial and Amarillo, but I agree that a bittering charge and whirlpool would probably give you better results.
Maybe consider a FWH and increase your IBU's to 65 - 70.

 

[thehopbine]

MO is a 2row variety base malt, however it is different than a plain "pale ale"/2row. MO for one imparts a bit more color and lends more of a biscuit flavor in my opinion, if you take a handful of American two row and throw it next to crisp MO it's a night and day difference.

I want to know what other hops you have available, your grain looks fine; simple and will showcase your hops. I personally would bump ibus to between 70-80 and would increase late addition hops.

 

[Bellybuster]

I think your kitchen sink recipe looks awesome. I too would go for the whirlpool

 

[hottpeper13]

I think your kitchen sink recipe looks awesome. I too would go for the whirlpool

Ditto!

 

[jamboparty]

Thank you all very much for the input! After taking another look at it, I agree that the crystal malts are likely too high. I'm considering dropping them down to something along these lines:

61% Briess Pale Ale Malt
33% Maris Otter
3% Crystal 60
2% CaraPils
1% Crystal 120

Another option I'm considering is to just remove the crystal 120 completely:

62% Briess Pale Ale Malt
33% Maris Otter
3% Crystal 60
2% CaraPils

I have a question about whirlpooling:

Do you generally calculate the bitterness addition to be equal to a similar length boil addition (provided your temperature stays high enough for isomerization)? Meaning, a 30-minute whirlpool adds the same bitterness as a 30-minute boil addition? I've read a few conflicting articles on how to calculate this, so I'm curious what real-world experience has to say.

Thanks again, everyone! This is what makes these forums so much fun.

 

[specharka]

While Pale Ale and MO are both base malts, they aren't the same thing. IMO, noticeably different taste.
That said, the blend you have should provide some complexity over just 2 row. I believe you would be better served to reduce the amount of crystal malts to 5% or less unless your looking for significant residual sweetness and bump up your base to keep the ABV the same. With 10.5% crystal I would expect this to be cloyingly sweet.
Hops schedule looks ok, though I've never mixed Centennial and Amarillo, but I agree that a bittering charge and whirlpool would probably give you better results.
Maybe consider a FWH and increase your IBU's to 65 - 70.

MO is a 2row variety base malt, however it is different than a plain "pale ale"/2row. MO for one imparts a bit more color and lends more of a biscuit flavor in my opinion, if you take a handful of American two row and throw it next to crisp MO it's a night and day difference.

I want to know what other hops you have available, your grain looks fine; simple and will showcase your hops. I personally would bump ibus to between 70-80 and would increase late addition hops.

Sorry guys, but you're wrong on this one.

http://byo.com/mead/item/710-grain-on-the-brain

Pale malt = American 2-row
Pale ale malt = British 2-row = Maris Otter

 

[Yooper]

Sorry guys, but you're wrong on this one.

http://byo.com/mead/item/710-grain-on-the-brain

Pale malt = American 2-row
Pale ale malt = British 2-row = Maris Otter

Pale malt- about 2 SRM
Maris otter- a British pale ale malt, 2 row variety, kilned to about 4 SRM
Pale Ale malt- about 3.5 SRM, still two row, but kilned to have a richer flavor

Yes, they are the same plant and kilned to about the same color, but they taste different. They really do. They even taste different from different malsters in the same country. MO is "breadier", and definitely not the same as US pale malt. US pale ale malt is a bit "nuttier", for lack of a better description. English crystal malts taste different than US crystal malts as well, and some malsters have bigger variations than others.


I like the idea of dropping the 120L completely. It's got a "toffee" flavor to it that may detract from the hops.

As far as whirlpool hops, isomerization formulas aren't really perfect (nor understood). A hopstand at 180 degrees will NOT be give the same isomerication rates as boiling for the same length of time. I've found that it is more like a 5 minute addition in my calculators BUT that is my taste and I think it's just my guestimate. I set up Beersmith to calculate them, but sort of still consider it a guess.

 

[specharka]

Thank you all very much for the input! After taking another look at it, I agree that the crystal malts are likely too high. I'm considering dropping them down to something along these lines:

61% Briess Pale Ale Malt
33% Maris Otter
3% Crystal 60
2% CaraPils
1% Crystal 120

Another option I'm considering is to just remove the crystal 120 completely:

62% Briess Pale Ale Malt
33% Maris Otter
3% Crystal 60
2% CaraPils

I have a question about whirlpooling:

Do you generally calculate the bitterness addition to be equal to a similar length boil addition (provided your temperature stays high enough for isomerization)? Meaning, a 30-minute whirlpool adds the same bitterness as a 30-minute boil addition? I've read a few conflicting articles on how to calculate this, so I'm curious what real-world experience has to say.

Thanks again, everyone! This is what makes these forums so much fun.

There is a lot of debate in the brewing community as to the isomerization and utilization at hopstand / whirlpool temperatures. If you're looking to approximate the effect of performing a hopstand on IBUs, give this article a read:

https://byo.com/mead/item/2808-hop-stands

Personally, I would limit hopstands to 2-3 ounces, and try to keep your additions between 210-180F. Below 180F, hop utilization is virtually nonexistent. I believe commercial breweries keep hopstands between 210-205F, since their boil kettles retain heat much longer than homebrewing kettles can. You will still get hop flavors at 180F, but the aromatics will dissipate much faster than those imparted by a dry hopping schedule, so it's somewhat wasteful.

 

[specharka]

Pale malt- about 2 SRM
Maris otter- a British pale ale malt, 2 row variety, kilned to about 4 SRM
Pale Ale malt- about 3.5 SRM, still two row, but kilned to have a richer flavor

Yes, they are the same plant and kilned to about the same color, but they taste different. They really do. They even taste different from different malsters in the same country. MO is "breadier", and definitely not the same as US pale malt. US pale ale malt is a bit "nuttier", for lack of a better description. English crystal malts taste different than US crystal malts as well, and some malsters have bigger variations than others.


I like the idea of dropping the 120L completely. It's got a "toffee" flavor to it that may detract from the hops.

As far as whirlpool hops, isomerization formulas aren't really perfect (nor understood). A hopstand at 180 degrees will NOT be give the same isomerication rates as boiling for the same length of time. I've found that it is more like a 5 minute addition in my calculators BUT that is my taste and I think it's just my guestimate. I set up Beersmith to calculate them, but sort of still consider it a guess.

I'm sure there are subtle differences between the pale ale malt makers (Briess v. Maris, etc), but the guys I was quoting were specifically confusing American 2-row with Pale Ale malt.

Pale Ale Malt

This malt is basically the same as standard two-row, but it is kilned at a slightly higher temperature. This results in a darker color (it measures about 3 to 4 degrees Lovibond) and it also changes the flavor profile. Pale ale malt can be very flavorful and malty, with a good malt aroma. It tends to be the most modified of all the base malts and it works well with any mashing schedule, from single infusion to step mashing. It has a fair amount of enzymatic power and can convert itself and some extra adjuncts, up to 50 percent of the total grist. As the name implies, this malt is primarily intended to make ales, especially traditional English ales. It’s too dark for a pilsner. It can also be an excellent choice for Belgian-style amber ales.

It’s common for this malt to be made by specialty maltsters in the United Kindgom. It’s also common for the specific barley variety to be featured. Maris Otter is a British variety of barley commonly associated with this type of malt.

 

[Bellybuster]

regardless of all above, I think your original recipe sounds yummy.
Dont knock C120 until you try it, makes for a very tasty brew and gives awesome colour
I am presently drinking a 91% 2row, 4.5 and 4.5% C40/C120. Beautiful colour, nice roastiness and just enough maltiness.