Citrus/ Fruit additions and "options"

[jIM_Ohio]

I have read numerous threads on adding Amarillo hops, lemon zest, lime zest, oranges and other fruits to beer. I have a few random questions I'd like to consolidate to one location for my own reference.

My beer preference is a Heifeweizen or a dunkelweizen. Lots of wheat for sure...

I think I read somewhere Amarillo hops can add a citrus flavor to beer. Can someone confirm this?

Is Citrus=orange, is Citrus=lemon, or somewhere in between?

I have read about techniques where oranges (or lemons, or limes) are zested by grading ONLY the peels (not the white stuff) in a cheese grater, then added to wort. As long as these are boiled for 15 minutes or so, there is less risk of bacteria being added to wort and ruining downstream processes.

Can someone compare this to adding sweet orange peel and sour orange peel (which I buy at my local brewery supply)?

Is zesting the same thing, or does one technique offer something another technique does not?

I have read threads on cutting oranges in half, then adding them either
1) during boil
2) flame out
3) secondary

Maybe I did not read on adding oranges to secondary, I did read on adding zest then, so this is another variable I am trying to understand- if added to boil, what happens, if added at flame out, what is the difference, and if added to secondary, what effect will that have- both with zest and the oranges themselves.

If I do that with a lemon, other than flavor change, is there any difference?
If I do that with a lime, other than flavor change, is there any difference?

If I add lemon+orange or lemon+lime (zest or the fruit themselves), am I creating a problem?
If I use Amarillo hops instead of any of the above with a Hefeweizen yeast, what factors should I consider?


Those are my detailed questions.
My actual problem is this- I am making a beer which I am giving as a gift to my Aunt for her 50th birthday. She likes flying dog hefeweizen (I like it too, but I like other Hefe's better), and she usually adds a fruit to her beer. I think it was a lime, might have been a lemon.

I saw threads on oranges being added, and assumed lemons and limes would get similar treatment (or get substituted). Before I went ahead and bought the ingredients, I thought I would ask.

I am brewing a hefeweizen for her probably this weekend or next week. I need to decide how much fruit and which fruit to include. If you knew how to clone flying dog hefeweizen, that might lead us to the answer.

 

[jIM_Ohio]

I will also add that the beer needs to be ready June 22 for her party (drinkable). If I brew it now and miss, I will be trying two different recipes (one brewed this week, the other brewed in 2 weeks) and bottling 100 bottles (50 each of two different recipes), I will gift whichever 50 bottles taste the best.

 

[jIM_Ohio]

Here is a recipe I have bottled and not tasted from local supply store:

2 lb wheat dme
3 lb wheat lme
.5 lb 2 row pale malt
.5 lb bisquit malt
1 lb white wheat malt
.5 oz saaz hops (60 min)
.5 oz saaz hops (15 min)
3068 wyeast

2.5 gallons at 125 degrees, steep 2 row, bisquit and white wheat for 20 minutes (remove from heat while steeping)
152 degrees, steep for 20 minutes (remove from heat while steeping)
discard grains, add water to 3 gallons, stir in dme.

Bring to a boil for 60 minutes, follow hops schedule

Add LME at 15 minutes
Cool to 75 degrees
add water to make 5 gallons
ferment (ferment at 75 degrees for at least 1 week)

If this turned out good, this is base recipe I will add fruit to (I can sample this on Friday I think).

 

[jIM_Ohio]

evening bump.
replies?

 

[jIM_Ohio]

Friday bump. Any comments?

 

[Lazersgopewpew]

I'm relatively new at this myself and quite interested in this.
while I can't offer much in the way of Info, I can tell you what I've learned from a recent experience. Adding zest too early in the boil will kill off any hint of citrus. If you've also accidentally added any pith into the boil, especially too early as I did accidentally, (60 min) it will bitter the crap out of your beer, and not in a crisp hoppy way either. A month long primary ferment seems to have taken most of the bite out tho. Hoping another few weeks in bottle will really mellow it out.

hope that helped a little!

 

[Calichusetts]

I've seen no difference in the bitter and sweet orange peels from shops...but I do big beers so there is some intereference with getting the true aroma.

There are so many options you can consider and with so many combinations you are thinking about, any response could be endless.

Some other alternatives could be orange puree/marmalade in the secondary...this will also raise ABV and restart fermentation. I do two late additions of orange/grapefruit and dryhop them. People recommend sanitizing them in vodka...maybe try orange/citrus vodka or even lemon/lime vodka to get that added flavor.

As for the citrus flavor name, its basically marketing as citrus really just applies to the fruit family which includes lemons, grapefruit, etc. I dont think oranges and lemons taste alike so the "citrus" flavor really is wide open...think fruity

I'd consider squeezing some oranges over your boil at flameout to get some flavor as well. It will cause haze as oranges are high in pectin which will cloud your beer...you need to balance it yourself of not worry it its not a priority.

Hope this helps

 

[jIM_Ohio]

I've seen no difference in the bitter and sweet orange peels from shops...but I do big beers so there is some intereference with getting the true aroma.

There are so many options you can consider and with so many combinations you are thinking about, any response could be endless.

Some other alternatives could be orange puree/marmalade in the secondary...this will also raise ABV and restart fermentation. I do two late additions of orange/grapefruit and dryhop them. People recommend sanitizing them in vodka...maybe try orange/citrus vodka or even lemon/lime vodka to get that added flavor.

As for the citrus flavor name, its basically marketing as citrus really just applies to the fruit family which includes lemons, grapefruit, etc. I dont think oranges and lemons taste alike so the "citrus" flavor really is wide open...think fruity

I'd consider squeezing some oranges over your boil at flameout to get some flavor as well. It will cause haze as oranges are high in pectin which will cloud your beer...you need to balance it yourself of not worry it its not a priority.

Hope this helps

Thank you (and thanks to other response as well).

I guess I did not realize the complexity of my question and problem.
Best to try, taste and learn, I guess.

 

[paulster2626]

When people say "citrus flavour", they always mean grapefruit.

If they meant lemon or orange, they'd say lemon or orange.

I'll be throwing 2L of pineapple juice in an IPA tomorrow, so we'll see how that goes.

 

[pwndabear]

based on the recipe you have posted, i have to say your IBUs are WAY low. saaz only has an AAU of ~4%. I would up the amount of hops you are using and get rid of the 60min addition of saaz.

If you are specifically looking for a citrus hops, Amarillo and Cascade are going to give you the most bang for your buck. I am making a citrus IPA and have a hops schedule or chinook, simcoe, cascade, and amarillo hops.

good luck!

 

[Calichusetts]

When people say "citrus flavour", they always mean grapefruit.

If they meant lemon or orange, they'd say lemon or orange.

I'll be throwing 2L of pineapple juice in an IPA tomorrow, so we'll see how that goes.

Interesting...I almost always mean orange when i say/think citrus...its one of the most varied of the citrus family, then comes limes. Absolut Citron is actually infused with lime not grapefruit. Not to be super technical...but I think the grapefruit actually evolved from the orange.

Who knows...to me, citrus just means a fruity, sweet aroma and flavor

 

[jIM_Ohio]

based on the recipe you have posted, i have to say your IBUs are WAY low. saaz only has an AAU of ~4%. I would up the amount of hops you are using and get rid of the 60min addition of saaz.

If you are specifically looking for a citrus hops, Amarillo and Cascade are going to give you the most bang for your buck. I am making a citrus IPA and have a hops schedule or chinook, simcoe, cascade, and amarillo hops.

good luck!

can you comment more on

Chinook, simcoe or cascade hops? Are these common? I have seen 1 recipe with some of those, ran it by one person and he had not heard of them.

Will any of those add citrus to the beer?

I am aware of the low IBU- that is a German Hefe, so IBU will be low (and I understand it would take significant hops to overcome the yeast).

If I add limes at 15 minutes to the boil, how many oz will give just a hint of flavor? I don't want my beer to turn into a fruit drink, just want to add a little something...

and If I did 1 oz of amirillo at 60 min, is that enough for the yeast I use?

 

[BrakeleyBrewing]

I have had good results by zesting some fruit and adding the zest at flame out. I just brewed a Witbier and added an ounce of coriander at 5 minutes, and zest from one tangerine, one orange and one pink grapefruit at flame out. It smelled pretty awesome.

Also, I did a double IPA not too long ago that used mostly Citra hops. The citrus/fruit flavor was great. Lots of mango.

 

[ccostel]

I typically add a little coriander to the end of the boil to get a citrus flavor. I zest a lemon or orange and add to a little vodka in a jar to sanitize and add it to the secondary. It gives the the smell of your preferred citrus to the finished product.