Citra Simcoe Pale Ale pointers

[ronjonacron]

so here's what I have so far. I've taken what I like about other recipes and what i thought might be a good citra / simcoe blend with a strong malt backbone. I've been following other recipes until recently, and most of what I've come up with on my own have been very malt forward or yeast showcasing.

Please either confirm that this sounds like it will be good, or let me know where i can set myself up better for a successful brew.
Also, looking to use Denny's Fav 50 for yeast.

Recipe: Citra Simcoe Pale Ale TYPE: All Grain
Style: American Pale Ale
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 8.9 SRM SRM RANGE: 5.0-14.0 SRM
IBU: 36.6 IBUs Tinseth IBU RANGE: 30.0-45.0 IBUs
OG: 1.053 SG OG RANGE: 1.045-1.060 SG
FG: 1.014 SG FG RANGE: 1.010-1.015 SG
BU:GU: 0.687 Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz Est ABV: 5.1 %
EE%: 72.00 % Batch: 5.25 gal Boil: 6.78 gal BT: 60 Mins

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
7 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 71.4 %
1 lbs Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3 9.5 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 2 9.5 %
1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 4 9.5 %

Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 8.0 oz Total Hops: 3.00 oz oz.

Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.047 SG Est OG: 1.053 SG
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
0.75 oz Cascade [7.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 17.0 IBUs
0.25 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 5.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 6.4 IBUs
0.25 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 3.5 IBUs
0.25 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 3.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 10 -
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
0.25 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 13 0.0 IBUs

 

[ddicker60]

what are your dry hop amounts? I suggest you dont bitter, instead first wort hop. a little less bitterness, and more complex. I would also move all the late additions up five minutes and have a hopstand/whirlpool addition. This will add more flavor.

 

[ronjonacron]

I figured id dry hop an ounce of each for 4-5 after 10-14 days in primary. Althougb this was tentative on feedback, im not looking for an ipa just a good flavored pale ale. Most of my experience is with malty or yeast showcasing beers, thats why im trying to get feedback on this one.

 

[tgmartin000]

Needs more IBU (maybe 45), ditch the orange peel (what does it add?), and I'd cut back on the crystal. And the Victory. And the Vienna. IMO, pick one specialty malt and go with it plus maybe 5% crystal if you want. Between the Maris Otter and all your specialty malts you might just have too much going on.

Maybe 85% maris otter, 10% victory or vienna, and 5% crystal.

Just my personal opinion. But I tend toward less complex rather than more, as a rule.

 

[rcsoccer]

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
7 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 71.4 %
1 lbs Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3 9.5 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 2 9.5 %
1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 4 9.5 %

Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 8.0 oz Total Hops: 3.00 oz oz.

Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.047 SG Est OG: 1.053 SG
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
0.75 oz Cascade [7.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 17.0 IBUs
0.25 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 5.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 6.4 IBUs
0.25 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 3.5 IBUs
0.25 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 3.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 10 -
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
0.25 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 13 0.0 IBUs

I would knock down the victory to around 8 oz. instead of a whole pound. That would be A LOT of toasty, biscuity flavor. Would also only do about 12 oz. of the crystal malt.

For the hops, I would maybe go with Warrior for bittering. It gives a nice clean bitterness without harsh or astringent flavors. For the aroma addition, mix all of your Citra and Simcoe together and add 1/2 at 5 mins left and 1/2 at flameout. Give it a good whirlpool and let it sit for about 20-30 minutes for a hop stand before running it through a chiller.

Denny's Fav 50 is a great yeast for Pale Ales!

Good luck! Cheers!

 

[Grantman1]

I agree with the guys above. It sort of depends on what you're going for here, but if you are wanting the hops to shine, I'd simplify the grain bill as much as you can. If this is the case, I'd drop the victory altogether. I get some toasty notes from Vienna anyway, if you still want to include that. With APAs and IPAs, I find the simpler the grain bill, the cleaner the hop profile. Usually just use base malt and a little crystal malt. I've got a bunch of citras and simcoes to burn through from a while back, so I'll be doing something similar soon.

 

[ColumbusAmongus]

I agree with the guys above. It sort of depends on what you're going for here, but if you are wanting the hops to shine, I'd simplify the grain bill as much as you can. If this is the case, I'd drop the victory altogether. I get some toasty notes from Vienna anyway, if you still want to include that. With APAs and IPAs, I find the simpler the grain bill, the cleaner the hop profile. Usually just use base malt and a little crystal malt. I've got a bunch of citras and simcoes to burn through from a while back, so I'll be doing something similar soon.

Agree. I was thinking the malt bill looked a little heavy for a pale. My favorite pale that I made was really simple with pale ale base malts and a touch of crystal. The trick is that you want to go for a good balance between light malt character and light hop character. A subtle malt bill will help your hops come through more defined.

 

[ronjonacron]

I see the opinions are all similar, i read through a large thread and the consensus was that a bit more generous of a grain bill was needed to balance it out.

I was only looking to hop to around 35-40 IBUs to have something not overly hopped, and enjoyable to have several on a hot florida day.

 

[mytommygundont]

I'm a little mystified at some of the advise here.

First of all the OP wants to make a pale ale with a strong malt back bone. This alone should drive off all of the suggestions to take out most of the specialty malts. Personally I think your a little heavy on the crystal.

Second, some of the best pale ales out there are using a similar hop schedule. Why suggest to change everything about the OP's schedule? There are several ways to hop a great pale ale. IMO the recipe I see here is good example.

 

[ronjonacron]

I really appreciate that. Looking back over i did put victory when i meant munich. Victory is way more potent stuff from what i understand. I think im just gonna try it and see what i get.

How much should i drop the crystal? 12 oz, 8 oz?

Maybe an updated grain bill will look something like
8 Lbs marris otter
1 lb munich
1 lb vienna
12 oz crystal

Hop schedule
15, flame out and dry hop.

 

[daveooph131]

I really appreciate that. Looking back over i did put victory when i meant munich. Victory is way more potent stuff from what i understand. I think im just gonna try it and see what i get.

How much should i drop the crystal? 12 oz, 8 oz?

Maybe an updated grain bill will look something like
8 Lbs marris otter
1 lb munich
1 lb vienna
12 oz crystal

Hop schedule
15, flame out and dry hop.

Munich and Vienna are over kill. Marris otter is an awesome malt by itself and with about 8% crystal you'll have a great malt backbone.

IMO keep it simple

 

[uatuba]

I find that your best bet in really bringing out those flavored is to add 1 qt of pine sap for every gallon of wort.

Edit: I just looked at your recipe and it's not the more common "let's use more hops than grain" type that I see when people start throwing around uses for Simcoe.

 

[tgmartin000]

I'm a little mystified at some of the advise here.

First of all the OP wants to make a pale ale with a strong malt back bone. This alone should drive off all of the suggestions to take out most of the specialty malts. Personally I think your a little heavy on the crystal.

Second, some of the best pale ales out there are using a similar hop schedule. Why suggest to change everything about the OP's schedule? There are several ways to hop a great pale ale. IMO the recipe I see here is good example.

IMO strong malt backbone does not necessarily equate to 30% specialty malts or a mixture of several malts. Mash temp, water profile, and yeast selection all play a role in maltyness.

 

[LoloMT7]

IMO strong malt backbone does not necessarily equate to 30% specialty malts or a mixture of several malts. Mash temp, water profile, and yeast selection all play a role in maltyness.

Agreed I think he has been given strong advise to this point. And from seeing his last post he is making sense of it all well.

 

[Grantman1]

I'm a little mystified at some of the advise here.

First of all the OP wants to make a pale ale with a strong malt back bone. This alone should drive off all of the suggestions to take out most of the specialty malts. Personally I think your a little heavy on the crystal.

Second, some of the best pale ales out there are using a similar hop schedule. Why suggest to change everything about the OP's schedule? There are several ways to hop a great pale ale. IMO the recipe I see here is good example.

I understand your logic here, but even if the OP is looking for a strong malt backbone, the original grain bill still looks a bit "busy" to me. As he pointed out, he meant to have munich instead of victory, which would seem to serve his intended purpose. I just think that in pales and IPAs, too many different specialty malts can create a kind of muddled flavor in the finished beer.

 

[mytommygundont]

It's just something you see on here often. Ever since the Zombie Dust clone has been posted(It's awesome by the way. Can't wait to taste the real thing at GABF) people are so caught up in hop bursting. It's a great technique to be sure, but it's not the only technique.

Would I put a pound of Victory/Munich and Vienna in a pale ale? No. But telling the OP that it's better to go with a base malt and a little crystal is completely disregarding the original recipe's intent.

FWIW I gave very little advise in my response so wasn't really helping the cause here either.

 

[ronjonacron]

I appreciate the continued effort here. It seems pretty clear that i was going overboard even looking for strong malt backbone.

To be more clear, im not a huge hop fan, but the simcoe citra combo seemed cool with the descriptions of mango, tropical, and citrus (hence the reason for the orange peel). I generally prefer sweeter stuff, but its really hard to enjoy a milk stout or wee heavy when its 100 degrees outside.

Ill drop the specialty grains and mash a bit higher maybe 153 or so, that with the combination of dennys fav 50 should hopefully give me what im looking for, if not, itll give me another reason to brew again sooner.

Thanks again, and ill follow up with exact recipe and results.