Hi all,
Since a couple of months, I'm reading (and listening) a lot about all the technical aspect in cider and there is a point where two radical point of view seems to coexist about fermentation.
The old school way
Official method in Normandy and basically the way everybody is doing with natural fermentation.
Can be summarize by making everything possible to keep yeast and bacteria to do their job easily.
- Fermenting at low temperature, always under 15°C and most of the time under 12°C.
- Racking a lot declining cells quantity and so tire out remaining ones, ...
- Working with apples that contain few nutrients (low or no nitrogen fertilizer), using Keeving to create "chapeau brun" to remove particles containing nutrients and, of course never add any nutrient.
Why working like this : because the most slow is fermentation, the less flavor are lost by CO2 release and the most cider have time to create complexity. It is also a way to keep residual sweetness*
The new school way
Method used by all cider makers that want a clean and replicable product and those whose, for any reason, choose to work with sectioned yeast strain.
In 3 words: Make Yeast Happy.
Good amount of nutrient, pitching rate an t° always follow the manufacturer's instructions.
Globally both approaches are different because they apply to different yeast/bacteria but maybe it is not as simple.
Everybody seems to agree on the fact that slow fermentation is better, so low temperature is the norm. Nevertheless, a lot of the cider yeast have a fermentation temperature range that goes not under 15°C.
Does it means that, a cider maker must always prefer a cider yeast that can ferment as low as 10°C or he can use a yeast like 71B (15°C-30°C in data sheet) at 12°C expecting to have a slower fermentation ?
In his book "The new Cide Maker", when C. Jolicoeur (definitely an old school guy) is talking about cidre the glace, he explain that he works with 71B with underpitch, no nutrient added and under 15°C to control fermentation more easily and be able to stop it when he want. What do you guys think about it? This is the exact opposite of what producer tell us to do.
Some of you did noticed that he had better result with yeast able to ferment at low temp or at the opposite, had trouble fermenting lower than yeast train can?
Are you those who think that, for cultured yeast, data sheat is the law or those who think that we can fool the rules sometimes?
*How the heck this Normandy cider can sometimes be at FG 1035 when bottling, make a refermentation carbo and stop before explosion?
Ok if you rack your cider like crazy and maintain a low temp, is like infinite crash cold and filtering, at the end, I can admit that there will be nothing but very few and exhausted yeast. But if they are alive enough to make a very sparkling cider how can be sure they will stop just after it is and never eating all this remaining sugar?
Since a couple of months, I'm reading (and listening) a lot about all the technical aspect in cider and there is a point where two radical point of view seems to coexist about fermentation.
The old school way
Official method in Normandy and basically the way everybody is doing with natural fermentation.
Can be summarize by making everything possible to keep yeast and bacteria to do their job easily.
- Fermenting at low temperature, always under 15°C and most of the time under 12°C.
- Racking a lot declining cells quantity and so tire out remaining ones, ...
- Working with apples that contain few nutrients (low or no nitrogen fertilizer), using Keeving to create "chapeau brun" to remove particles containing nutrients and, of course never add any nutrient.
Why working like this : because the most slow is fermentation, the less flavor are lost by CO2 release and the most cider have time to create complexity. It is also a way to keep residual sweetness*
The new school way
Method used by all cider makers that want a clean and replicable product and those whose, for any reason, choose to work with sectioned yeast strain.
In 3 words: Make Yeast Happy.
Good amount of nutrient, pitching rate an t° always follow the manufacturer's instructions.
Globally both approaches are different because they apply to different yeast/bacteria but maybe it is not as simple.
Everybody seems to agree on the fact that slow fermentation is better, so low temperature is the norm. Nevertheless, a lot of the cider yeast have a fermentation temperature range that goes not under 15°C.
Does it means that, a cider maker must always prefer a cider yeast that can ferment as low as 10°C or he can use a yeast like 71B (15°C-30°C in data sheet) at 12°C expecting to have a slower fermentation ?
In his book "The new Cide Maker", when C. Jolicoeur (definitely an old school guy) is talking about cidre the glace, he explain that he works with 71B with underpitch, no nutrient added and under 15°C to control fermentation more easily and be able to stop it when he want. What do you guys think about it? This is the exact opposite of what producer tell us to do.
Some of you did noticed that he had better result with yeast able to ferment at low temp or at the opposite, had trouble fermenting lower than yeast train can?
Are you those who think that, for cultured yeast, data sheat is the law or those who think that we can fool the rules sometimes?
*How the heck this Normandy cider can sometimes be at FG 1035 when bottling, make a refermentation carbo and stop before explosion?
Ok if you rack your cider like crazy and maintain a low temp, is like infinite crash cold and filtering, at the end, I can admit that there will be nothing but very few and exhausted yeast. But if they are alive enough to make a very sparkling cider how can be sure they will stop just after it is and never eating all this remaining sugar?
