Cider clearness, Reducing Oxidation and Stopping Fermentation

[NateBodnar]

I have a batch of cider that finished fermenting dry (0.997 SG) using Safcider yeast, racked off the yeast in to a new jug after 7 days in primary, and instantly went in the fridge to cold crash.

Goal: Split my batch into two and have half become a semi-sweet cider by blending with fresh sweet farm cider (the same stuff I started the hard cider with at an approximate 90/10 ratio), let it age the minimum amount, not to have to stove pasteurize, and to be able to store in a room temperature cabinet as my girlfriend would kill me if I took up the entire fridge with cider bottles

I have been reading a lot about potassium sorbate and campden tablets, and honestly am very confused on how well they work, side effects, when to add them, and under what conditions I should add them. It seems like everyone gives different advice and I'm assuming this is because of these parameters that are never really detailed out on forum post responses.

Questions:

1. Can some one define clear cider? As many commercial ciders have a wide variety of 'clearness', is there a quick stupid easy way to determine that I'm done clearing and that there isn't more clearing to do?

2. Potassium sorbate - Stops yeast growth but doesn't stop fermentation, should this only be added after removing as much yeast as possible? How many racks? How long of clearing? do you use it?

3. Campden tablets - Stops oxidation while aging, same questions as #2.

4. When are potassium sorbate and campden tablets an absolute must in your opinion?

5. Blending with the fresh farm cider, is this just asking for bottle bombs without pasteurizing? Even if I use the above additives? How can I guarantee that there is such little yeast in my hard cider to not eat the newly added sweet cider or am I doomed to have to keep it in the fridge?

6. Side effects of the additives to taste?

As usual, thanks for the help!

 

[Yooper]

Maybe some of the (longer) info here will help?: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/cider-for-beginners.508303/

But to answer shorter:
1. If it's clear, it's clear. There isn't really degrees of clear- either you can read a newspaper through it (clear) or not.

2. Yes. Once it's totally and completely clear, it is racked off of the lees, into a mix of campden (sulfites) and sorbate dissolved in a little water so that it gently mixes while filling from the bottom to avoid oxygenation.

3. As an antioxidant, 1 crushed campden tablet per gallon is added (dissolved in some of the cider or a little water first) at every other racking. Again, the dissolved sulfites are added first, and the cider racked into it.

4. If you are ever sweetening a batch and bottling it, the proper dosage of sobate is a must. Campden/sulfites are used as an antioxidant, and I always use them as described, but others don't. Since sorbate works better in the presence of sulfites, they are added together when the sorbate is added.

5. If you properly stabilize, there will be no bottle bombs. I've never had one, and I've been at this nearly 30 years.

6. I can taste sorbate in very small amounts, but most people can't. If you can't taste it in apple juice and things you buy in the store, you won't notice it in your wine/mead/cider either. I've got a palate that makes me a good beer judge, but a terrible person to enjoy some things because I can taste things like sorbate, diacetyl, slight fermentation flaws, crystal malt, oregano in spaghetti sauce, etc. I love food, and it's not fun to be so able to pick up coriander in the next table's dinner!

 

[NateBodnar]

Maybe some of the (longer) info here will help?: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/cider-for-beginners.508303/

But to answer shorter:
1. If it's clear, it's clear. There isn't really degrees of clear- either you can read a newspaper through it (clear) or not.

2. Yes. Once it's totally and completely clear, it is racked off of the lees, into a mix of campden (sulfites) and sorbate dissolved in a little water so that it gently mixes while filling from the bottom to avoid oxygenation.

3. As an antioxidant, 1 crushed campden tablet per gallon is added (dissolved in some of the cider or a little water first) at every other racking. Again, the dissolved sulfites are added first, and the cider racked into it.

4. If you are ever sweetening a batch and bottling it, the proper dosage of sobate is a must. Campden/sulfites are used as an antioxidant, and I always use them as described, but others don't. Since sorbate works better in the presence of sulfites, they are added together when the sorbate is added.

5. If you properly stabilize, there will be no bottle bombs. I've never had one, and I've been at this nearly 30 years.

6. I can taste sorbate in very small amounts, but most people can't. If you can't taste it in apple juice and things you buy in the store, you won't notice it in your wine/mead/cider either. I've got a palate that makes me a good beer judge, but a terrible person to enjoy some things because I can taste things like sorbate, diacetyl, slight fermentation flaws, crystal malt, oregano in spaghetti sauce, etc. I love food, and it's not fun to be so able to pick up coriander in the next table's dinner!

Thanks great info! I definitely read the cider for beginners post a few months back but probably didn’t understand certain things enough to totally retain it.

Some follow up questions:

1. Will using store cider with sorbate in it to sweeten make the sorbate taste too much?

2. Is there a point where cider won’t clear and I’m stuck where I’m at?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Sorbate is a preservative, not a sweetener. Avoid juice with sorbate at all cost.

Fining agents can be used to clear cider if you don't want to wait for it to clear naturally. But first ask yourself, what's wrong with it being cloudy?

 

[dmtaylor]

Questions:

1. Can some one define clear cider? As many commercial ciders have a wide variety of 'clearness', is there a quick stupid easy way to determine that I'm done clearing and that there isn't more clearing to do?

2. Potassium sorbate - Stops yeast growth but doesn't stop fermentation, should this only be added after removing as much yeast as possible? How many racks? How long of clearing? do you use it?

3. Campden tablets - Stops oxidation while aging, same questions as #2.

4. When are potassium sorbate and campden tablets an absolute must in your opinion?

5. Blending with the fresh farm cider, is this just asking for bottle bombs without pasteurizing? Even if I use the above additives? How can I guarantee that there is such little yeast in my hard cider to not eat the newly added sweet cider or am I doomed to have to keep it in the fridge?

6. Side effects of the additives to taste?

1) Clear is clear. If it's hazy, it's not clear. Your willingness to accept a little haze or not is entirely on you. I use gelatin a lot of times to aid in clarification. But sometimes all you can do is let it age in the bottles for ultimate in crystal clarity.

2) Yes, I would add sorbate only after removing most of the yeast, i.e., racking, maybe two or three times. Again, it's clear when it's clear. After you rack, you would want only negligible haze and lees. Sorbate really does stop a slow fermentation pretty well. But it doesn't stop a very active fermentation.

3) Same, although Campden doesn't halt fermentation at all. If there's any live yeast, it just pisses them off and makes them produce sulfur aromas... which will fade after a month or two in most cases. Personally, I don't use Campden at end of fermentation anymore to avoid this.

4) NEVER an absolute must. I rarely if ever use either sorbate or Campden anymore. I either go real easy on the backsweetening to prevent bombs, or I use xylitol to backsweeten instead of any other sugar sources, or both.

5) If you use sorbate, you can probably prevent bottle bombs. Campden won't help. Gelatin can help remove most of the yeast. Add gelatin, let sit several days until clear, then add the sorbate and rack off again before bottling.

6) If over-used, they say sorbate can taste like geraniums. I never had this happen to mine. I think you'd have to use a lot. Campden causes sulfur flavors, which can be anywhere from rhino farts to burnt matches. I don't find much use for Campden at END of fermentation at all honestly. I guess if you knew you had a bacterial infection (e.g., acetobacter) you could use Campden to kill that. Otherwise can skip it if you're not aging the bottles for very long.