Chugger problems

[DrewBrewTheGreat]

let me try rolling boil...

EDIT: uploading video for youtube and will post...

EDIT 2:

Chugger = no likely rolling boil

March = fine with rolling boil (at least this time--I have had same pump have problems with rollling boil--but just stops pumping does not making dying cat noise)

Not really a problem for me... I don't move wort at rolling boil for anything.... only at 211F (sea level)--and that works fine with the chugger.

Chugger (see @ 1:00 minute mark) fails with roiling boil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g-wTEGelM4&feature=youtu.be

March does not fail with rolling boil:

Again, Chugger did not fail at 200F to boil... Only failed at rolling boil.

Useful information those choosing... For me, I guess, the heavily discounted Chugger pump, is worth not have the capability to move wort at a rolling boil (when are people doing that?)

 

[Option]

Well now it looks like the chuggers are sold out again since there not listed on the website anymore...so the choice for me is easy, march cuz its available.

 

[DrewBrewTheGreat]

Well now it looks like the chuggers are sold out again since there not listed on the website anymore...so the choice for me is easy, march cuz its available.

out of the poly pumps too? those were only $100...

 

[weirdboy]

dying cat noise

Chugger (see @ 1:00 minute mark) fails with roiling boil: P1010035 - YouTube

That is exactly the same noise my Chugger makes, but it's not even close to rolling boil on mine. It starts up more like 160F or so, which makes it hard to use to push wort through my chiller. Presumably the new pump heads will fix the problem, though.

 

[KCBrewer]

Useful information those choosing... For me, I guess, the heavily discounted Chugger pump, is worth not have the capability to move wort at a rolling boil (when are people doing that?)

I do for the last 15 minutes of the boil. I circulate through my cfc to sanitize it.

And thanks for the videos.

 

[kincade]

That is exactly the same noise my Chugger makes, but it's not even close to rolling boil on mine. It starts up more like 160F or so, which makes it hard to use to push wort through my chiller. Presumably the new pump heads will fix the problem, though.

Exact same issue with mine as well. Starts at about 170 or so. This video IS of the replacement though, isnt it?

Could it be the impeller siezing on the shaft? I wonder if the drilling out trick for the march would work for this?

 

[weirdboy]

Exact same issue with mine as well. Starts at about 170 or so. This video IS of the replacement though, isnt it?

Could it be the impeller siezing on the shaft? I wonder if the drilling out trick for the march would work for this?

I dunno, my chugger that was screeching is also brand new. I am going to assume that when they ship replacement heads, they will be individually tested to work at operating temps.

 

[phoenixs4r]

Man. I gotta go brew and test mine. I hope works....

 

[KCBrewer]

So are the pumps that are having issues the newer style with the larger impeller and 1/20hp motor?

I have 2 of them on the way, crossing fingers these issues have been resolved on this model.

 

[kincade]

So are the pumps that are having issues the newer style with the larger impeller and 1/20hp motor?

I have 2 of them on the way, crossing fingers these issues have been resolved on this model.

It looks like it. Mine is the newest model.

 

[DrewBrewTheGreat]

his video IS of the replacement though, isnt it?

My came yesterday 12/09/11... problem at boil only... Speak up if anyone speaks with Mike or anyone at Chugger.

 

[ElevenBrewCo]

Seriously try restricting the flow! I cant stress this enough. It did it to me on the old green one and the new black replacement. Just don't fully open your valve and see if that helps. Im going to try and drill my propeller out and see if that fixes it completely

Sent from my DROIDX using Home Brew Talk

 

[DrewBrewTheGreat]

Seriously try restricting the flow! I cant stress this enough. It did it to me on the old green one and the new black replacement. Just don't fully open your valve and see if that helps. Im going to try and drill my propeller out and see if that fixes it completely

Sent from my DROIDX using Home Brew Talk

This may make sense. Others seem to be having the same problem (pump making dying cat noises) at lower temperatures (160-180F) then my pump. I assume they are running 1/2" silicone tubing.

In contrast, I run 3/8" tubing and my pump doesn't torture the cat until a rolling boil. The 3/8" tubing, in the lengths I am using, likely restricts flow a bit. That could be the difference?...

In addition, the Chugger pumps pump at a faster rate than the March--so slowing the pump of the Chugger down--may just be bringing the flow down to the same rate as the March pump (that doesn't have the cat killing tendencies). Since the heads seem pretty much the same--maybe the heads are limited to certain flow at higher temps (regardless of the pump and the symptom only shows up on the Chugger b/c it pumps a bit faster (with the same type of head)--> exceeding that limit).

Just a thought.... I got some time before X-Mas:

Next batch, in a day or so, I will restrict the flow on the Chugger at a rolling boil and post the result.

 

[PLOVE]

Following along with interest. I was just about ready to pull the trigger on 2 chuggers, but decided to wait and see how the new models were performing. Apparently I have my answer. Not good.

Does anyone have the polysulfonic head? Is this problem specific to stainless? Probably the same impeller design, but thought I'd ask.

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

Subscribed
Just bought 2 for a customer. This is very disconcerting. Basically, from what I'm reading, it sounds as though the cheap Chugger March Pump clone Chinese knock-off is flawed.

Grrrr

 

[CollinsBrew]

I have two of the original green chuggers with the stainless heads that came out when they first started advertising on here. I haven't been able to use them yet but will hopefully have better luck. It sounds like it's been hit or miss with the problem. I'll attempt to drill out my impellers it I experience it though. Mike from Chugger sent me the stainless heads for free so I can't complain if they don't perform as well.

 

[kincade]

Just a few comments... Regarding flow, I HAVE restricted my flow. At any rater other than shut off I get the 'screaming cat' and the flow shuts down. So ANY flow seems to cause the problem. Even without the screaming cat, the pump is struggling to get H20 from my boil kettle to HLT, which is only a 5' rise.

Second, I did some experimenting this weekend and put some keg lube on the shaft and reassembled. It didn't get rid of the problem but it did seem to allow more flow and temperature before it locked up. This makes me wonder if drilling the impeller would solve the problem.

The comments about the impeller being demagnetized above 200* are a bit disconcerting, as that is precisely where I plan to use the pump! I hope this isn't the case.

Plove, you couldn't pull the trigger if you wanted to as the last batch is already sold out!

Lastly, problems aside you have to give it to chugger that they are standing behind these. I have a new pump on the way already. If it doesn't solve my problem I'll return the pump and I have no doubt that chugger will give me a refund. Their customer service seems to be second to none. I just wish the pumps had the bugs worked out!

 

[DrewBrewTheGreat]

drilling the impeller

What is this referring to?

 

[yessri]

What is this referring to?

see 10/27/11 9:45 AM for OP: "From the looks of it (from their perspective) the impeller is expanding under heat and seizing on the shaft. If thats the case then just drill the impeller out with that 17/64" drill bit and you should be fine. For those of you with better drill bit assorments use a "G" bit. If the impellers are still de-coupling on you @ 170*F then they have some weak magnets and theres not much you can do about it but send it back to them and hope they get you some better/stronger ones."

 

[DrewBrewTheGreat]

thanks

 

[ben the brewman]

I have heard from a brew shop that sells the chugger pumps that there is a few issues with them. One that I remember is that when they are being made (in china) they are using peanut oil as the lube on the pump bushing and it is not lasting after they get hot and causing the pump to lock up. I have also heard about a few of them having magnet problems too. I have a march pump and im not sure that I would ever trade it for a chugger pump. Too many problems.

 

[PLOVE]

Plove, you couldn't pull the trigger if you wanted to as the last batch is already sold out!

I'm starting to think I'm pretty happy I didn't pull the trigger. Guess you get what you pay for. Probably gonna take my business to March and go with a more proven pump. Based on all the comments it's clear Chugger's doing their best to support the customer, and I applaud that. Just can't justify a few $$$ in savings when I have to do things like drill out the impeller. . .

May your pumps be cool and lubricated
PLOVE

 

[bcryan]

guess i won't be buying a chugger. too bad. i liked the price

 

[milldoggy]

Anyone have both? Could you try the chugger head on the march motor and vice versa, try to find if it is the motor or head.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Home Brew Talk

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

If the pump is decoupling around 170/180* then the magnets are just not magnetized strong enough. "Most" magnets wont start to loose magnetism until around 250* and at that point you will loose about 10% of the magnetic strength each time you overheat it.
I suspect (since i have no idea how things are done at chugger) that they are at the mercy of the Chinese company that is making the pumps for them as to keeping quality control on the magnets strength etc. Chugger is probably just getting the shipment from over seas and selling the product and dealing with any problems if they show up.
I think we have a slight advantage in having our own magnetizing machine in-house and being able to check each impeller and drive magnet for proper torque.

-Walter

 

[NTabb]

I have a chugger and have issues as well when it gets above 170F. I hope they get the problems figured out because they have one of the best customer service I've dealt with. That being said, I have a March 809 as well and NEVER had a single issue at any temp. Which is why I just bought another one.

 

[DrewBrewTheGreat]

For what it is worth.... Brewed my second batch with the Chugger (delivered on 12/09/11)... No problems...

Didn't try the rolling boil again (which the Chugger failed at--see earlier video).

That said, you don't get something for nothing in this world. March stainless pumps are running $250 plus.

The Chugger is stainless, its cheap ($100 less anyway), and it works for what I need (so far).

Unless the problem is of the type that will manifest later after some use--I am pretty happy. I can live without pumping wort at a rolling boil.

I also have a March pump and it has been a very good pump.... And it was only $100 when I bought it ages ago.

 

[Coff]

I wish I would have seen this thread a few weeks ago when I bought a Chugger. The first brewday I used it I was getting the screaming cat noise constantly and the flow was a trickle. At the time I was using 1/2 ID Silicone tubing slipped over the nipple on the valve so I just assumed there was air in the lines. Ive since got my camlocks on the same tubing and ran the pump 30 seconds after the boil during cooling and it went great no issues at all.

Edit: I have the newish one, not the green one. On my next brewday I'll try to pump while boiling, although I dont ever do that with my system so Im not too concerned. As long as I can whirlpool and transfer sparge water Im good.

 

[ElevenBrewCo]

Im going to drill out my impellar, brew this weekend and fill you guys in with what happened

Sent from my DROIDX using Home Brew Talk

 

[GreenBoneBrew]

Yea im thinking the same thing now... I was about to order one of the new ss chuggers, but really don't want to deal with these problems to save a few bucks off the march and get a ss head that doesn't move hot wort.

I'm starting to think I'm pretty happy I didn't pull the trigger. Guess you get what you pay for. Probably gonna take my business to March and go with a more proven pump. Based on all the comments it's clear Chugger's doing their best to support the customer, and I applaud that. Just can't justify a few $$$ in savings when I have to do things like drill out the impeller. . .

May your pumps be cool and lubricated
PLOVE

guess i won't be buying a chugger. too bad. i liked the price

let me try rolling boil...

EDIT: uploading video for youtube and will post...

EDIT 2:

Chugger = no likely rolling boil

March = fine with rolling boil (at least this time--I have had same pump have problems with rollling boil--but just stops pumping does not making dying cat noise)

Not really a problem for me... I don't move wort at rolling boil for anything.... only at 211F (sea level)--and that works fine with the chugger.

Chugger (see @ 1:00 minute mark) fails with roiling boil: P1010035 - YouTube

March does not fail with rolling boil: P1010037 - YouTube

Again, Chugger did not fail at 200F to boil... Only failed at rolling boil.

Useful information those choosing... For me, I guess, the heavily discounted Chugger pump, is worth not have the capability to move wort at a rolling boil (when are people doing that?)

damn, I was about to pull the trigger on 2 chuggers. Looks like I'm gonna go March. Anyone experience the same issues with March pumps?

I'm going with a March 809 SS. The last thing I want is to run it problems on a brew day. To me, when I have to devote time fixing or have something fixed, is time that I could be doing something else. Sometimes spending money up front is the correct thing to do.

Did Chugger even do any testing on these pumps, besides shooting water into a trash can (pic seen on Faceook). Theses are issues that would have surfaced during testing. What about a tolerance analysis and DFEMA? Those could of helped with surfacing problems up front also.

 

[IrregularPulse]

I'm going with a March 809 SS. The last thing I want is to run it problems on a brew day. To me, when I have to devote time fixing or have something fixed, is time that I could be doing something else. Sometimes spending money up front is the correct thing to do.

Did Chugger even do any testing on these pumps, besides shooting water into a trash can (pic seen on Faceook). Theses are issues that would have surfaced during testing. What about a tolerance analysis and DFEMA? Those could of helped with surfacing problems up front also.

You'd be paying for all that testing and quality control as well. Good bye cheap alternative. You can't expect half price and full functionality.

 

[GreenBoneBrew]

You'd be paying for all that testing and quality control as well. Good bye cheap alternative. You can't expect half price and full functionality.

Why would I want a cheap alternative that could fail (and sounds like it will) on me and screw up the timing of my brew? I'm not looking to go through the hassle of returning pumps and waiting. I've done that with computers and beater cars. Lesson learned, buy the good stuff and leave the lesser products to the people who think they are "saving money".

 

[DrewBrewTheGreat]

Spoke with Mike again on the phone today. I emailed him the videos and he called me the same day.

Don't hang the company out to dry--they are working pretty hard to fix this. In my line of work--I deal with other people's problems all the time--so I am patient and listen and try not jump to conclusions. I also deal with enough people to know the good from the bad. He is good people.

Don't just label his stuff crap. I don't think that is fair after speaking with him. In my opinion (and nothing to do with the conversation with Mike), we all have a desire for a nice pump at a nice price!

From my conversation with him--> I can tell you he is actively trying to do that.... Don't buy the pump if you have concerns--that is totally understandable. But my bet is this will all be worked out...

From the conversation--I gather it is a new pump. It is similar to Marches--however not completely the same design. They working out the bugs. Perhaps some of the bugs--increased flow and such were meant to be improvements.

Anyway he went over a couple things with my pump setup. This is what I got from the conversation:

They have sold a lot of them and there was a few of them that unfortunately had a bad batch of magnets in them. If you are one of them--call him--they are replacing those. Be a touch patient--I think they will make it right for you in the end.

Also, they are testing the pumps specifically for this problem (with boiling water) before they leave the shop. There are initials scratched into the bottom mounting plate showing that (on mine anyway).

For whatever reason, my pump failed (with boiling wort) and Mike had some suggestions that I will try and get back to everyone. If that doesn't work he's willing to send a replacement. They are working to fix this issue.

I am patient and don't mind working with him---because IMO people like him--made this hobby in the first place (it wasn't nearly as popular when I started!)--and they make it better now by adding competition, reducing prices, and maintaining a steady flow of new ideas and ingenuity.

This type of effort should be supported by fellow homebrewers. He is not trying to rip anyone off with a sub-par product. Pump has some bugs--they'll figure it out.

 

[Option]

All the best luck to them at Chugger and everyone with there pumps. I applaud his customer service and standing firmly behind his product.

I was ready to buy one but after doing the research I decided to go with the March 809 High Flow model from Morebeer.

I am about to fire up a all new system and want to reduce the possibility of weak links as much as possible.

Happy brewing and pumping!

 

[emjay]

I admit I haven't looked too in-depth into this, but is there any problem with their SS heads?

I already have March pumps, but I want to use SS heads and figured the Chugger ones would make it affordable. But if they're causing any problems, I'll just stick with the polysulfone for now...

 

[DubBrew]

Wow am I glad I found this thread. I've had a chugger for several months and I've had problems the whole time. I figured it was my setup and I've messed with it, got new connections and all kind of other stuff. I was ignorant to the temperature problem. I was about to give up. Shame on me for not contacting them earlier.

I've since emailed chugger and have not heard back but I'm hopeful that they will make it right when they do get back to me.

 

[phoenixs4r]

So for those having issues, hows your plumbing? 1/2" in 1/2" out (ID) with a valve on the output?

 

[DubBrew]

1/2" id throughout the whole system. I had some of the Mcmaster-carr disconnects that were smaller and I thought they could be the problem do I swapped them for cam locks.

Edit: stupid auto correct

 

[Coldies]

So for those having issues, hows your plumbing? 1/2" in 1/2" out (ID) with a valve on the output?

That's my set up. I have noticed mine is getting worse. I can barely make it through my re-circulation with my RIMS set up. Sparging at 170-180 is almost now out of the question. I contacted Chugger through the "Got a problem" and am just waiting for a response.

 

[weirdboy]

So for those having issues, hows your plumbing? 1/2" in 1/2" out (ID) with a valve on the output?

That is what I have. 1/2" camlocks, and full-bore barbs connecting those to the hoses.