Chilling time - 32 min to chill 10.5 gallons to 68 degrees

[djonesax]

It takes me roughly 32 minutes to chill 10.5 - 11 gallons to 68 degrees. I have an immersion chiller with 3/16" tubing (I think, pretty sure), and is about 45'ish feet long. It's 17 wraps around a corny keg and then add the inlets and outlets tall enough for a 20 gallon kettle. I use a pump to whirlpool across the wort across the coils then entire time. I use ground water whois is about 70 degrees right now, until below 150 degrees usually, sometimes a lower and then use a pond pump to run ice water through it. It usually drops below 100 pretty fast and then really slows way down around 80 degrees.

I was thinking about switching to a counterflow chiller or building a new immersion chiller with larger diameter tubing. If I switched to counter flow, I could use my immersion chiller to pre-chill the water. Anyway, I would really like to shave off some time here if I can, and wondered what chilling times you all were getting.

 

[mongoose33]

If you want to see the theory behind immersion chilling, check out the Jaded Hydra. It splits the incoming water into three lines, intertwined among each other. I have been able to chill a 5.5-gallon batch from boiling to 70 degrees in 4 minutes. That's fast. Water temp in the 50s.

The name of the game is surface area combined with speed of water flow.

A counterflow chiller might work if you have enough linear run to allow the water to chill the wort down before it exits the chiller. Here's an issue with that: if you recirculate back into the boil kettle, chilling will slow down as the wort temp drops. It's the difference in temp between chilling water and wort that moves things along. It's why, of course, you need to switch to ice water as your water source is too warm (at 68 degrees) to get it the rest of the way.

If you get it chilled down enough that what exits the counterflow chiller is at your pitch temp, then you can run it directly into the fermenter. The downside to that is whatever cold break emerges tends to be in the fermenter, not the kettle.

So it seems like it's 6 of 1 and a half dozen of the other. I have a pic below showing my counterflow chiller--I selected that because there's no copper in it, and I'm trying to keep copper out of my brewing apparatus.

Note the thermometer in a "T" fitting at the bottom of the chiller. I use this to monitor what's exiting the chiller. If I want to send it directly into the fermenter, I can do that; if I want to chill completely before transferring, I can do that. If the latter, I use a temp probe in the boil kettle to tell me how I'm doing there.

But back to the above: surface area combined with high flow water is the way to chill. That's your goal.

 

[wepeeler]

It takes me roughly 32 minutes to chill 10.5 - 11 gallons to 68 degrees. I have an immersion chiller with 3/16" tubing (I think, pretty sure), and is about 45'ish feet long. It's 17 wraps around a corny keg and then add the inlets and outlets tall enough for a 20 gallon kettle. I use a pump to whirlpool across the wort across the coils then entire time. I use ground water whois is about 70 degrees right now, until below 150 degrees usually, sometimes a lower and then use a pond pump to run ice water through it. It usually drops below 100 pretty fast and then really slows way down around 80 degrees.

I was thinking about switching to a counterflow chiller or building a new immersion chiller with larger diameter tubing. If I switched to counter flow, I could use my immersion chiller to pre-chill the water. Anyway, I would really like to shave off some time here if I can, and wondered what chilling times you all were getting.

I use the Hydra and have been very happy with the results. It more about ambient temp and the temp of the water you're using to cool the wort. 70F may seem cold compared to 212, but it's not very efficient in killing time. I usually run my ground water (50F) through the chiller for about 5-7 gallons. (I use that warm water for cleaning later on in the brew day.) I then use a pump and a cooler with ice water to cool it to yeast pitching temps. My brew buddy has a well, so we can't just run 30+ gallons into the beer and out into his yard, hence why we use the cooler for re-circulation.

I brew in the garage so on a cold Winter day I can usually get under 70F in 20-25 min using 20lbs of ice. On a hot day, I can go through 40 lbs ice and just barely get to 70F in 30 min. So I'm guessing your chiller is working pretty good. Takes a lot to cool down 11 gallons of HOT wort!

On a side note, by the end of a brew day, my brain is usually fairly scrambled. My brew buddy and I are not nearly as focused as when we started so things start to unwind, and we get sidetracked fairly easily. Moving the chiller around in the wort helps cool it down MUCH faster. I would guess if you devote all your consciousness to cooling the wort and do everything correctly you could cool down 11 gallons in 20-25 minutes regularly.

 

[Dave Sarber]

I use a 50 foot SS immersion chiller from New York Brewers Supply, about $68 IIRC.
Arizona ground water in summertime runs about 90-95°, so that's out. I use a swamp cooler pump in a sink full of ice water, and pump right back to the sink. I'm only doing 5 gallon batches, but my temp drop is from approx 140 to 70 in about 10 minutes. As wepeeler mentioned above, moving the chiller up and down in the wort makes it a lot faster, and aerates the wort besides. If I don't do that, the same temp drop takes at least twice as long. And I also generally use 2 bags of ice.

 

[Beernik]

I’m still on brewing hiatus until I get my keezer going.

For my 8 - 10 gallon brews, I had two ICs in series. The small, 25’ one, I used as a pre-chiller in a bucket of ice water, 10lb bag of ice in water. I’d go through 1.5 to 2 bags of ice. The longer, 50’ one, I used to cool the wort.

That would get the wort down to 70 to 80F fairly quickly and then I’d transfer it to buckets and put it my ferm chamber to drop the rest of the way to to pitching temp.

 

[kh54s10]

The last I brewed, the tap water was 87 degrees. I would have to take steps with whatever system to get to pitching temperatures, so I just use my IC = 40ft to get as cool as possible without running hundreds of gallons though. I then put the fermenter in the chamber to cool the rest of the way. It takes several hours. My IC is two sections so I could put one section in ice water but didn't the last couple of brew days.

 

[djonesax]

@Dave Sarber

This is what I do, but I whirlpool at the same time so I don't need to move the chiller up and down. Prior to adding the pump I did manually move it up and down.

 

[djonesax]

@mongoose33 @wepeeler That Hydra looks cool, I wonder how it would do on a 10 gallon batch. Id love to get it down to 20-25 minutes. I mean 32 min isn't terrible but at the end of a long brew session, any time savings is appreciated. I go through a ton of ice too, usually about 3-4 bags which is costly. It just dawned on me last brew session that I should have just frozen a bunch of 2 liter bottles or empty jugs of water versus spending $10 on store bought ice.

 

[mongoose33]

@mongoose33 @wepeeler That Hydra looks cool, I wonder how it would do on a 10 gallon batch. Id love to get it down to 20-25 minutes. I mean 32 min isn't terrible but at the end of a long brew session, any time savings is appreciated. I go through a ton of ice too, usually about 3-4 bags which is costly. It just dawned on me last brew session that I should have just frozen a bunch of 2 liter bottles or empty jugs of water versus spending $10 on store bought ice.

In my case, if I can do a 5-gallon batch in 4 minutes, a 10-gallon batch would take twice as long, plus a bit.

Your ground water is warmer, but the speed at which it chills from boiling to, say, 40 degrees above the water temp is amazing.

One thing they do very well is all the coils are tied to each other by copper wire, leaving spaces between the coils. I would take a stainless spoon to stir the wort so it's continuously passing by, and through, the Hydra. That's part of the equation--the wort has to move past the chiller.

If you did your current process--run with ground water until chilling slows, then switch to ice water--it wouldn't suprise me if you could get it down to 15 minutes. Or even less.

 

[chezhed]

The name of the game is surface area combined with speed of water flow.

Yep...that's it in a nutshell......and speed of wort flow.

At Big Brew day we held a little chill test....IC with ground water (85F), IC (same one) with pumped ice water at 75 GPH (based upon pump specs for height...assuming height was equal to hose length), CFC (Grainfather version) with pumped ice water (same pump), Blichmann therminator with pumped ice water and same pump. All wort was gravity fed into CFC and Therminator
Results- times are approximate as best we could remember when we started and there were of course, mixed opinions.
IC ground water....over one hour to reach 90F...would not go lower
IC pumped, 38 minutes to 80F....brewer said enough
CFC pumped, 24 minutes to 80F....got to 70 later...we kind of quit timing as we had begun drinking more by then
Therminator, didn't time it...but when the boil kettle was empty (probably less than 30 minutes), the wort was 64F....

Caution...there were lots of uncontrolled variations...flow rate from boil kettle on CFC and Therminator were not monitored, flow of ice water was probably different in CFC and Therminator, Initial temps varied by as much as 10F due to timing and sharing equipment, both CFC and Therminator used 40 LBS of ice with hot water recirculated. CFC ran out of ice; Therminator had ice still in tub.

 

[RPh_Guy]

@mongoose33 where did you get your stainless CFC?

 

[djonesax]

If you did your current process--run with ground water until chilling slows, then switch to ice water--it wouldn't suprise me if you could get it down to 15 minutes. Or even less.

This is what I do now to get my 32 minute chill. That hydra would be well worth the money, If I could shave 17 minutes.

 

[mongoose33]

@mongoose33 where did you get your stainless CFC?

It's from Stout. I have mixed feelings about Stout and the chiller. Stout misrepresented delivery to me, both online and after ordering, demanded a deposit, wouldn't tell me how much shipping would be, and then when all was said and done I paid something like $54 to have the thing shipped. By that time I was pretty much locked in.

It works fairly well, but it's stainless and stainless is not as conductive of heat as copper. It takes maybe 15 minutes to get a batch down to pitch temp, if I recirculate back into the kettle. It's closer to about 10 minutes if, once the wort coming out of the chiller drops to pitch temp, I directed it to the fermenter and not back into the kettle. I've never timed them exactly so take that with about 3 grains of salt.

It is, though, a pretty long CF chiller. Has, I think, 35 linear feet whereas most others, IIRC, are 25 feet.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Yep...that's it in a nutshell......and speed of wort flow.

At Big Brew day we held a little chill test....IC with ground water (85F), IC (same one) with pumped ice water at 75 GPH (based upon pump specs for height...assuming height was equal to hose length), CFC (Grainfather version) with pumped ice water (same pump), Blichmann therminator with pumped ice water and same pump. All wort was gravity fed into CFC and Therminator
Results- times are approximate as best we could remember when we started and there were of course, mixed opinions.
IC ground water....over one hour to reach 90F...would not go lower
IC pumped, 38 minutes to 80F....brewer said enough
CFC pumped, 24 minutes to 80F....got to 70 later...we kind of quit timing as we had begun drinking more by then
Therminator, didn't time it...but when the boil kettle was empty (probably less than 30 minutes), the wort was 64F....

Caution...there were lots of uncontrolled variations...flow rate from boil kettle on CFC and Therminator were not monitored, flow of ice water was probably different in CFC and Therminator, Initial temps varied by as much as 10F due to timing and sharing equipment, both CFC and Therminator used 40 LBS of ice with hot water recirculated. CFC ran out of ice; Therminator had ice still in tub.

First, if you have warm ground water, you need to follow this process:

Initial chill with ground water to 120 or so, then switch to pumped ice water. If you start with ice water, you lose to much of your chilling capability cooling that first 100 degrees. If you try to go too far with the ground water, you waste a bunch of time with chilling water that is not sufficiently colder than the wort your chilling. Temp differential is key.

Second, there's no way in hell a hydra would take an hour. In the spring when water here is around 55 degrees, I can chill to 68 (for about 5.5 gallons) in less than 10-12 minutes. From boiling to 170 (for a whirlpool rest) takes about 20-30 seconds. It's so fast that I installed a valve on the hydra because turning it on from the faucet, walking to the pot, seeing the temp already down to to 180, then walking back to spigot would have my temps too low. People trash immersion chillers in general because they use crappy ones and assume that's representative of all of them.

There are only 2 reasons I'd use anything other than a hydra:
1) I wanted to do LODO and couldn't use copper
2) I was doing batches bigger than 10 gallons

 

[turbo 6]

The lowest I can chill my wort to is around 90*. After that I set up my FTS chiller in my chronical and pitch when the it reaches target temp.

 

[Tagobolts]

I’m still on brewing hiatus until I get my keezer going.

For my 8 - 10 gallon brews, I had two ICs in series. The small, 25’ one, I used as a pre-chiller in a bucket of ice water, 10lb bag of ice in water. I’d go through 1.5 to 2 bags of ice. The longer, 50’ one, I used to cool the wort.

That would get the wort down to 70 to 80F fairly quickly and then I’d transfer it to buckets and put it my ferm chamber to drop the rest of the way to to pitching temp.

I want to give this a shot. Didn't know it was a think until i went to the LHBS and he mentioned it. Water temp here in the summer is around 80 so had a really hard time last batch to get it cold enough. Going to give this a shot. Figure get it down to 100 with just the chiller, then add the secondary chiller with some ice to finish it off.

 

[gnef]

I built a two stage counterflow chiller using a 50 ft coil of copper (I believe 3/8" OD tubing? It's been a while since I made it).

I split the sections so that the first stage uses groundwater, and the second stage uses pumped ice water.

I have to do this as I live in Georgia and for most of the year the groundwater temperature just isn't low enough to get to pitching temperatures with any cooling solution.

I can do about 12 gallons through it in one pass to the low 60's into the fermenter in about 15 minutes.

It is a bit more complicated to setup, as well as clean, but those chilling times are worth it for me, and it still saves me time overall.

 

[Dland]

Lately I've been dropping from boil to around 175 with immersion coil in BK, which takes about 3 minuets, then after hop/filter step, it takes about 10 mins to get from 175 to mid '60's F to low 70's with plate chiller, depending on time of year.

Plate chillers probably offer the most efficient form of cooling to most home brewers, but one does have to keep them clean and sanitized, which is not as easy as other types of chillers.

 

[kh54s10]

Lately I've been dropping from boil to around 175 with immersion coil in BK, which takes about 3 minuets, then after hop/filter step, it takes about 10 mins to get from 175 to mid '60's F to low 70's with plate chiller, depending on time of year.

Plate chillers probably offer the most efficient form of cooling to most home brewers, but one does have to keep them clean and sanitized, which is not as easy as other types of chillers.

Without using ice, that is only possible for about a month where I live - Florida. My tap water was 80 degrees in late February.

 

[j1laskey]

First, if you have warm ground water, you need to follow this process:

Initial chill with ground water to 120 or so, then switch to pumped ice water. If you start with ice water, you lose to much of your chilling capability cooling that first 100 degrees. If you try to go too far with the ground water, you waste a bunch of time with chilling water that is not sufficiently colder than the wort your chilling. Temp differential is key.

Second, there's no way in hell a hydra would take an hour. In the spring when water here is around 55 degrees, I can chill to 68 (for about 5.5 gallons) in less than 10-12 minutes. From boiling to 170 (for a whirlpool rest) takes about 20-30 seconds. It's so fast that I installed a valve on the hydra because turning it on from the faucet, walking to the pot, seeing the temp already down to to 180, then walking back to spigot would have my temps too low. People trash immersion chillers in general because they use crappy ones and assume that's representative of all of them.

There are only 2 reasons I'd use anything other than a hydra:
1) I wanted to do LODO and couldn't use copper
2) I was doing batches bigger than 10 gallons

Could you elaborate on the type of valve, and where you installed it on your Hydra?

I just received mine, but I have not had a chance to use it yet.

You bring up a great point of having to walk over to the spigot to stop the flow of water and in that time having the temp drop below your target.

 

[Spartan1979]

Does anyone have an idea what the optimal point to switch from straight tap water to recirculating ice water? I imagine there would be several variables so it would probably vary from setup to setup and the time of the year. Maybe a certain point above tap water temperature?

 

[kh54s10]

Does anyone have an idea what the optimal point to switch from straight tap water to recirculating ice water? I imagine there would be several variables so it would probably vary from setup to setup and the time of the year. Maybe a certain point above tap water temperature?

I have stopped using ice for cooling, but when I did it was 1/2 of my 2 part IC in a bucket of ice water, tap water going through to pre-chill. I did it by feel. When agitating the coil in the BK and the water output doesn't seem to get much warmer I would then put the small coil in the ice water. I never measured the temperature.

I now just cool as far as the tap water will take it (in a reasonable amount of time and water use) then transfer to my fermenter and put it in the chamber to cool the rest of the way.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Could you elaborate on the type of valve, and where you installed it on your Hydra?

I use a metal hose in-line shut-off valve on the input side of the chiller. You can find them at Home Depot or Walmart. So Hose->valve->chiller.
https://www.menards.com/main/outdoo...7-c-13107.htm?tid=-3040587623004557049&ipos=2

 

[j1laskey]

I use a metal hose in-line shut-off valve on the input side of the chiller. You can find them at Home Depot or Walmart. So Hose->valve->chiller.
https://www.menards.com/main/outdoo...7-c-13107.htm?tid=-3040587623004557049&ipos=2

Thank you very much! This is perfect!

 

[applescrap]

This is what I do now to get my 32 minute chill. That hydra would be well worth the money, If I could shave 17 minutes.

I chill 10 plus gallons with my 30 dollar aih chiller in around 10 or so minutes. Got the secret from brulosophy on their hydra experiments. Done right hydra is more like 4 or 7 minutes iirc. 10 is fast enough for me. Anymore I have been no chilling so that's probably the easiest.

Anyhow, figure you want to know how I do it. I have a short hose on full blast and I pump it up and done. I have tried other techniques recirculating would probably get you close to 20 I imagine. But I pump it up and down quick. Note the hot side is hot af at first, so use something to protect your hand. Figure I am aerating the wort a little. Anymore I just throw a lid on it and walk away. That has its problems, but yeah nothing beats getting it done. Another note its physical work. You gain in time of your labor. If you dont do any work 30 minutes could be worth it.

I have commented extensively on quick brewing and that has always been my thing. If you are into quick brewing their are probably some tips on the quick brewing thread I started. Cheers.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Could you elaborate on the type of valve, and where you installed it on your Hydra?

I just received mine, but I have not had a chance to use it yet.

You bring up a great point of having to walk over to the spigot to stop the flow of water and in that time having the temp drop below your target.

It's just a 90 degree turn valve that is designed for a garden hose. It looks like this. I attached it to the inlet side of the hydra so that I can control the flow right there at the chiller. Works like a charm.