Chilling pump

[RichSib]

During the summer, because of our high groundwater temps, I have a hard time chilling my wort below 80*F using my immersion chiller. I want to rig a recirculating ice water system using a pump to recirculate ice water from a reservoir through the immersion chiller and back to the reservoir. My march 809 pump doesn't appear to be strong enough to create any decent flow through the chiller, the return is just a dribble. The chiller is 50' of 3/8 copper, the reservoir and the chiller are both on the same level, a pump could be mounted beneath the reservoir and chiller. How do I calculate the resistance of the recirculation loop and determine what pump I need, or if this is even practical. would it be better/cheaper/simpler to just spring for a plate chiller (I'll still have 74*F groundwater to deal with).
Thanks, Rich.

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

Get a submersible pond pump, they're inexpensive.

 

[EdWort]

Get a submersible pond pump, they're inexpensive.

+1

And they work great! Use your tap water to get to 90 degrees, then swap out with the pond pump and a cooler of ice water.

 

[DeafSmith]

What brand and model # pump do you use that is proven to develop enough pressure to get good flow through the chiller?

I got one of these to try:
Heavy Duty Drill Powered Pump

I have tested it and see that it develops plenty of pressure, but I haven't used it to chill a brew yet. I am worried about its reliability - I'd like something I could have more confidence in.

Note for anyone who gets one of these drill pumps: before using it, be sure to disassemble it and clean out the white grease or you'll have greasy water through your chiller and into your ice water tub - don't ask me how I know.

 

[Lennie]

I don't think you'd want to run a drill for 10-20 minutes straight would you?

I'm thinking about this one:
Shop smartpond 300-500 GPH Water Garden Fountain Pond Pump at Lowes.com
I like it because it has a decent head height, and its adjustable flow with magnetic drive. Plus I think these are designed for continuous use.

 

[jpc]

I use the cheapest portable sump pump available from Home Depot... Can't recall what it cost, but it has a hose fitting on the outlet that I connect to my chiller with a braided washing machine hose.

 

[DeafSmith]

I don't think you'd want to run a drill for 10-20 minutes straight would you?

My original idea was to drive it with a motor, but I think I'd be better off to just buy a pump if I can find one that will give the flow that I want.

I'm thinking about this one:
Shop smartpond 300-500 GPH Water Garden Fountain Pond Pump at Lowes.com
I like it because it has a decent head height, and its adjustable flow with magnetic drive. Plus I think these are designed for continuous use.

The thing that bothers me about sump pumps like that one is the small pumping height - that one only has 8.7 foot height, less than the March pump's 12 feet. I think I would need a lot more pressure to get a decent flow through my 50 feet of 3/8 OD (1/4 ID) tubing. Flow rate from my March pump is certainly inadequate.

 

[dbrewski]

yeah I have a 25' copper IC that is 3/8, I bought a Beckett 7061310 350gph Submersible Pump with 16' Cord on Amazon for under $30, worked like a charm. It easily pushed 5G a minute through the chiller. But with 50', I'm not sure, maybe that is the problem. Seems like your March should be able to do it though.

 

[DeafSmith]

Bump - anyone with submersible pump brand and model numbers that have been proven to give a high flow rate through a 50' chiller?

 

[DeafSmith]

I stopped by my local Harbor Freight and saw that they had these on sale for $50, so I bought one (I liked the 23 foot lift spec):

1/6 Horsepower Submersible Utility Pump

I just tried it out and looks like it will work well. I get just over 1 gallon per minute through my 50 foor, 3/8 OD chiller (with a 6 foot washing machine hose attached at both ends). I never measured the flow from the March pump, but it was just a dribble. The new pump keeps a good steady stream going. Someday I may take another look at that drill pump, as it delivered more pressure than the water tap, and probably more than 2 gallons per minute (never measured). But the submersible is much easier to use.

 

[bucfanmike]

i also use the harbor freight 1/6 hp for recirculating through my IC. I use this in the winter when i brew outside and unable to use my outdoor water supply. I paid 40 for the pump, but then noticed there is also a name brand (Wayne) at menards for 40-50 in a 1/6 hp. Works very well

 

[dbrewski]

So, if you are getting 1G/min through a 50 ft IC, how is that chilling any faster than a 25 ft chiller doing 5 gal/min? Not trying to be negative about your setup at all. It just occurred to me that I'm pumping more cold water through less surface area...does that equal out?

 

[DeafSmith]

So, if you are getting 1G/min through a 50 ft IC, how is that chilling any faster than a 25 ft chiller doing 5 gal/min? Not trying to be negative about your setup at all. It just occurred to me that I'm pumping more cold water through less surface area...does that equal out?

With 5 gallons/minute I would expect that you're cooling faster than me. I'm surprised to see that much difference, especially since the Beckett pump you listed only specs a 7.3 foot pumping height - I wouldn't think it could develop enough pressure to drive that much water through even a 25 foot chiller. It would be interesting to see what that pump would do with a 50 foot chiller. Anyway, no complaints on my part - I get way more than 1 gallon per minute when running from the tap during the initial phase of the chill, and after I switch over to ice water recirculation I'm sure my HF pump will work fine.

 

[dbrewski]

Maybe I'm off a bit, I will measure it. I'm doing a batch tomorrow.

Cheers!

 

[dbrewski]

I set it up to measure it this morning. I put my IC in the sink, had two buckets on the ground, one with water and pump in it, the other was empty with gallon markings on it. I primed the system so liquid was ready to come out the waste tube of the chiller. Then I timed it, I was getting less than a gallon per minute, more like a gallon everyone one minute and fifteen seconds. I guess I was taking the rated speed (350G per hr) and just using that in a rough per minute calc and not taking into account the friction of the tubing.

So allow me to correct myself...your system puts more fluid through more surface area and kicks mine's butt.

 

[dbrewski]

I don't know if everyone using immersion pumps does the same, but I have filled mine with ice and frozen water bottles in a five gallon bucket, and recycled the water right back into the bucket. But I found out that the amount of heat in a 5 gallon batch melted the ice right down and got the water up to room temps or above before the wort was fully cool. So now I run tap water through the chiller for the first 20 degrees of cooling before hooking up the immersion pump/ice combo. I can then use the left over water for cleaning. I'm not a treehugger but if you multiply out the amount of water used in brewing a batch of beer including a chiller hooked up to tap it's pretty huge, so doing this helps bring that down a bit. It just seems like good use of resources.

 

[DeafSmith]

I was getting less than a gallon per minute, more like a gallon everyone one minute and fifteen seconds.

Now I understand - I couldn't see how the hell you were getting 5 gallons/minute with that pump. These pumps (yours and mine) are not positive displacement pumps - they only deliver the rated output flow if there is no restriction on the output and no lift required. For example, my pump is rated for 1350 gallons per hour and 23 foot lift, which means 1350 gallons with no lift and I presume that goes down as the lift increases, to 0 gallons per minute at 23 feet of lift. Trying to force water through my chiller is like trying to lift it, so the flow is only about 65 or 70 gallons per hour instead of 1350 !

 

[DeafSmith]

I don't know if everyone using immersion pumps does the same, but I have filled mine with ice and frozen water bottles in a five gallon bucket, and recycled the water right back into the bucket. But I found out that the amount of heat in a 5 gallon batch melted the ice right down and got the water up to room temps or above before the wort was fully cool. So now I run tap water through the chiller for the first 20 degrees of cooling before hooking up the immersion pump/ice combo. I can then use the left over water for cleaning. I'm not a treehugger but if you multiply out the amount of water used in brewing a batch of beer including a chiller hooked up to tap it's pretty huge, so doing this helps bring that down a bit. It just seems like good use of resources.

That's one reason I bought a new pump. It was taking so long using my March pump to recirculate ice water that I had to cool with tap water down to 80 or 90 degrees F before starting the ice water recirculation. I'm hoping that now I can stop the tap water at a higher temperature (100 or higher), then cool down to pitching temp. with recirculation in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[jvcjbl]

Got this 620 GPH Submersible Fountain Pump at Harbor Freight for $35 on sale a few months back. I have a 50' IC and as long as the water source and the IC/pump are on the same plane it moves a decent amount of water. During summer in Texas using some frozen 2L soda bottles (4) in a 5 gallon bucket full of water and some ice (for good measure) I can chill my wort from ~80'f (tap water temp) to ~68'f in about 10-15 mins.