Chiller Showdown: Blichmann Therminator vs JaDeD Brewing Cyclone

[passedpawn]

Chiller Performance Testing

Objective

Assess chiller performance of a Blichmann Therminator Plate Chiller vs a JaDeD Brewing Cyclone Chiller. 205°F water will be circulated through the chiller and back to the keggle. The time to get the keggle to 100° will be recorded for both chillers.
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Conclusion

The Blichmann Therminator is ~40% faster than the Jaded Brewing Cyclone Chiller when chilling water from 205° to 100°.
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Setup

• 10 gallons in keggle HLT
• 67° Pool water circulated with submersible pond pump
• Keggle contents (hot side) circulated with March pump through a total of ~ 20' of tubing.
• Chiller output returned to the keggle
• Blichmann Therminator (mounted in small plastic toolbox)
• JaDeD Brewing Cyclone
​

Data

Chilling Time (205° -> 100°) mm:ss

• Blichmann Therminator 10:15
• JaDeD Cyclone 14:45

Discussion

Haven't brewed with it yet!

The test above measured the temperature of the entire contents of the kettle as the chilled water was recirculated back to it. However, many brewers will immediately divert the output of the chiller directly into the fermentor. I tested with the recirculation in order to use the digital temperature sensor in my control panel and kettle. The Cyclone is slower than the Therminator, but I don't care too much - I will be transferring wort directly from the kettle to the fermentors.

Even though this new JaDeD chiller does not perform its chilling function as efficiently as the Blichmann chiller, it has a couple of advantages that will make it better suited for my brewing. Its design allows much larger channels for the wort, which should eliminate the fear of clogging. The Blichmann Therminator would definitely clog if some sort of hop bag was not used. Even when a bag was used, its flow was significantly reduced (visibly) after chilling 20+ gallons of hoppy wort. That reduced flow was an indication of internal arteriosclerosis that would need to be cleaned later. I am hoping that this new chiller will allow me to avoid using the hanging hop bag, and lets me drop the hops right into the kettle. Sweet.

The JaDeD chiller comes with a cleaning brush that makes cleaning it very simple. It has large orifices that you can see right through, ensuring that it's truly clean and free of debris. It also The Therminator is difficult (impossible!) to clean thoroughly. In the past, I've cleaned it all sorts of ways: hot PBW, hose, oxyclean, baked in oven, lye (not recommended). Regardless, later when it was time to brew I would have to hose it out, and the rinse water was always brown. So, I was never confident that it was clean inside.

I'd love to compare this JaDeD chiller to the Morebeer Chillzilla. My brother has one and loves it. One advantage the Chillzilla has is that it uses convoluted copper for its internal tubing. Convoluted copper will increase the turbulence and likely improve the chilling time. The Chillzilla is about the same total length of copper, but is much more compact due to its coiled design. That might be an advantage for some people. I'm building a stand, so this new chiller can be mounted out of the way, and its larger size is not an issue. The coil precludes cleaning, so I prefer the JaDeD.

The JaDeD chiller shipped quickly. In my comments to JaDeD, when I bought it on their site, I asked for ½" male connections on all ports (not standard, but since I don't use a hose, I did not want the ¾" hose connections). Though there was no confirmation of this, it's exactly what I got. Since it shipped so quickly, I was surprised to have the connections I needed.

I noticed that the water flow through the Cyclone was less than the Therminator. I didn't measure flow, so I can't say with certainty (or quantitatively) what the difference was. But if the chilling water flow is less, the chilling speed would suffer similarly.

Blichmann Therminator: $199
JaDeD Cyclone: $149
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Pictures

 

[schematix]

To be fair the Therminator needs to have 45-60 minutes added to its performance time to account for at least 2 unclogging interventions, plus a dozen flushes+backflushes, and then baking, and then another dozen flushes+backflushes.

I use the Jaded Hydra now and get almost the same cooling time as the Therminator, and without the clogs. Clean-up is 5 minutes max.

Also had similar experience when i ordered by Hydra. I ordered with 1/2" Female NPT connectors so i could screw in my standard male/male cam lock fitting. All my equipment uses male camlocks and all my hoses use female camlocks. Works great.

 

[passedpawn]

To be fair the Therminator needs to have 45-60 minutes added to its performance time to account for at least 2 unclogging interventions, plus a dozen flushes+backflushes, and then baking, and then another dozen flushes+backflushes.

I use the Jaded Hydra now and get almost the same cooling time as the Therminator, and without the clogs. Clean-up is 5 minutes max.

Also had similar experience when i ordered by Hydra. I ordered with 1/2" Female NPT connectors so i could screw in my standard male/male cam lock fitting. All my equipment uses male camlocks and all my hoses use female camlocks. Works great.

And, how do you factor the cost of a 10g porter in which 1) you forgot to do the pre-brew rinseout of your Therminator, and 2) a giant wad of maggots shot out into your kettle as soon as you started your boiling-wort sanitation recirc? What if that happened twice before you started adding caps onto the Therminator during storage (it's stored outside) in a cabinet).

 

[imasickboy]

FFS, I will never look at a homebrewed porter the same way again. That's horror-movie stuff right there.

 

[BrunDog]

Thank you for the analysis PP. I think using the pool is brilliant! I wish mine were closer to my garage!

It seems the performance of these were not that much better than the SS tube/shell I posted (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=597363) and got some grief for not being fast enough. That took 15 mins to get 7.5 gals from full boil (212) to 100 degrees with 79 degree flush water. Yes it was 33% less volume (which is significant), but the start was at boil and my flush water was warmer.

FYI, in my test, I was circulating the boiling water through the chiller immediately before the start, as I do this when I brew to sanitize the chiller. I turned off the element and turned on the flushwater simultaneously. Out of curiosity, did you start with hot chillers also?

 

[passedpawn]

FYI, in my test, I was circulating the boiling water through the chiller immediately before the start, as I do this when I brew to sanitize the chiller. I turned off the element and turned on the flushwater simultaneously. Out of curiosity, did you start with hot chillers also?

Yep, that's how I did it. I do this when I brew to sanitize the chiller, and I did it in this test to make the test as close to my brewing sitch as possible.

 

[passedpawn]

FFS, I will never look at a homebrewed porter the same way again. That's horror-movie stuff right there.

No worries. By the end of fermentation they sink to the bottom. Just gotta rack carefully

 

[BrunDog]

Yep, that's how I did it. I do this when I brew to sanitize the chiller, and I did it in this test to make the test as close to my brewing sitch as possible.

Cool, thanks!

 

[schematix]

And, how do you factor the cost of a 10g porter in which 1) you forgot to do the pre-brew rinseout of your Therminator, and 2) a giant wad of maggots shot out into your kettle as soon as you started your boiling-wort sanitation recirc? What if that happened twice before you started adding caps onto the Therminator during storage (it's stored outside) in a cabinet).

I would just add 10 minutes to the boil and not let anyone know they were drinking a very special brew...

 

[BrunDog]

I would just add 10 minutes to the boil and not let anyone know they were drinking a very special brew...

Threw up in my mouth a bit...

 

[day_trippr]

And, how do you factor the cost of a 10g porter in which 1) you forgot to do the pre-brew rinseout of your Therminator, and 2) a giant wad of maggots shot out into your kettle as soon as you started your boiling-wort sanitation recirc? What if that happened twice before you started adding caps onto the Therminator during storage (it's stored outside) in a cabinet).

That's nasty, once.

Twice?

 

[mongoose33]

And, how do you factor the cost of a 10g porter in which 1) you forgot to do the pre-brew rinseout of your Therminator, and 2) a giant wad of maggots shot out into your kettle as soon as you started your boiling-wort sanitation recirc? What if that happened twice before you started adding caps onto the Therminator during storage (it's stored outside) in a cabinet).

I think what you'd have to do is spend time on a special name for that brew, such as Double Trouble Maggot Porter.

Too bad it wasn't a honey and barley malt concoction. You could call it Maggot Braggot.

And that's about as far as I'm going to go with this.

 

[MaryB]

Problem is the protein from the maggots will cause chill haze...

 

[Homercidal]

Problem is the protein from the maggots will cause chill haze...

I thought the xBEERiment debunked that theory?

 

[JohnSand]

problem is the protein from the maggots will cause chill haze...

Laughed out loud, thanks.
Note to self: Delete maggots from future recipes.

 

[mongoose33]

Problem is the protein from the maggots will cause chill haze...

I'm not saying not to strain them out, but on the other side of the coin, remember what is in the bottom of some tequila bottles.....

 

[passedpawn]

Getting ready to chill with the Cyclone in a few minutes. Doing 2 IPA batches this morning. I love just tossing the hops into the boil!

 

[BrunDog]

I honestly think it makes better beer.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Nice to see Im not the only one using their pool as a reservoir for their chiller

 

[LuckyBeagleBrewing]

I am not sure if I should keep posting this but I have the beta version of the Cyclone called the Typhoon. This is the same thing only the length is 5 ft long. It has the same number of runs as the Cyclone only I do believe over 30 feet of area. The major drawback is the size. It is enormous. Cooling times though are very good. With 50 degree output and running full blast on everything I can cool the output of 12 gallons of 212 wort down to 72 degrees in 8 minutes. I can have the entire kettle brought to equalization temperature (72 degrees throughout) in under 13.5 minutes. That is using 60psi at the faucet 8 gpm full flow of cooling water at 50 degrees. Being able to do full whirlpool was my main requirement. This whirlpools like mad. Using a chugger pump unmodified, I get a very good whirlpool every time.

My normal process is to cool the full mass of liquid then I do a break rest after whirlpool for 2 hours. At that point I just drain without the chiller attached directly in to the fermenter.

It is still the straight design and you have to admit it is so easy to clean. I love that about it. I use a green 3M scrub pad cut down and it is always super clean.

They really should release the typhoon from beta. It is a monster but I would not won anything else now.

 

[passedpawn]

I am not sure if I should keep posting this but I have the beta version of the Cyclone called the Typhoon. This is the same thing only the length is 5 ft long. It has the same number of runs as the Cyclone only I do believe over 30 feet of area. The major drawback is the size. It is enormous. Cooling times though are very good. With 50 degree output and running full blast on everything I can cool the output of 12 gallons of 212 wort down to 72 degrees in 8 minutes. I can have the entire kettle brought to equalization temperature (72 degrees throughout) in under 13.5 minutes. That is using 60psi at the faucet 8 gpm full flow of cooling water at 50 degrees. Being able to do full whirlpool was my main requirement. This whirlpools like mad. Using a chugger pump unmodified, I get a very good whirlpool every time.

My normal process is to cool the full mass of liquid then I do a break rest after whirlpool for 2 hours. At that point I just drain without the chiller attached directly in to the fermenter.

It is still the straight design and you have to admit it is so easy to clean. I love that about it. I use a green 3M scrub pad cut down and it is always super clean.

They really should release the typhoon from beta. It is a monster but I would not won anything else now.

Thanks for that. Now that I'm not using a hop bag, my MAIN concern is the whirlpool. I have a element in the middle of the keggle, so I do wonder if that's going to affect things.

I brewed two batches today. First batch I chilled to about 80F, then let it sit for about 20m. The break material did drop, but only a few inches below the surface of the wort, and as expected I sucked up most of the material and hop debris into the fermentors.

I chilled the second batch down to about 70F and it's still resting (6 hours!). I took the family down to St. Pete and we had dinner and drinks (it's mid 70's here and just wonderful now). I'm heading out back to pump into fermentors now. Hope it's settled

That Typhoon does sound cool. I think that makes it about twice as big as what I have now. I did not even see it as an option when I bought mine.

 

[passedpawn]

So, I was just thinking about losses in the chiller. 1/2" tubing, 12', that's about 1/3 gallon. I'm also losing about 1/2 gallon (guess) now due to the whirlpool cone (not exactly a cone yet ). Not a ton, but not ideal.

 

[jrodmfish]

You know brew life is hard when you have to pump out of and recirculate back into your pool... I have a counterflow that gets me from boiling to 100F in 14 min. After that, I close the kettle valve 45 degrees and I'm at pitching in 23min.

I hardly use hop bags. I bought a plate chiller years ago and only used it once because I found it too difficult. My favorite would be immersion but they're just too slow in my set up so the counterflow is where it's at for me.

 

[BrunDog]

Thanks for that. Now that I'm not using a hop bag, my MAIN concern is the whirlpool. I have a element in the middle of the keggle, so I do wonder if that's going to affect things.



I brewed two batches today. First batch I chilled to about 80F, then let it sit for about 20m. The break material did drop, but only a few inches below the surface of the wort, and as expected I sucked up most of the material and hop debris into the fermentors.



I chilled the second batch down to about 70F and it's still resting (6 hours!). I took the family down to St. Pete and we had dinner and drinks (it's mid 70's here and just wonderful now). I'm heading out back to pump into fermentors now. Hope it's settled



That Typhoon does sound cool. I think that makes it about twice as big as what I have now. I did not even see it as an option when I bought mine.

Why did most of your hop debris get sucked into the fermenter?

 

[LuckyBeagleBrewing]

That Typhoon does sound cool. I think that makes it about twice as big as what I have now. I did not even see it as an option when I bought mine.

I wrote them in an email and asked them how much it would cost to double the number of runs on their current cyclone. They responded back with the Typhoon and I went for it.

For a while I was going to build my own but my copper sweating isn't the greatest anymore and I have liked everything Jaded sells that I have seen. I pulled the trigger on the beta and sent them a few reports. They did not seem as enthused as I was. I think they were wanting something different from the report.

The Scottish I brewed night before last chilled 12 gallons to 70 degree center kettle in 15 minutes. output of whirlpool at that point was about 59. To me that is really fast. to clear most out of the chiller after I am done, I slowly pump sanitizer and watch out the last output hose and never waste anything.

Typhoon is a great chiller and they should add it to their site.

 

[jammin]

Who the hell measures boiling to 100* time? Don't any of you brew IPA's!?

 

[BrunDog]

You can extrapolate it. The beginning of the chill results in dramatic/rapid decreases.

 

[passedpawn]

Who the hell measures boiling to 100* time? Don't any of you brew IPA's!?

I didn't care about the absolute time, only the comparison between the two chillers. So the range was arbitrary and didn't matter much as long as it was the same between the two tests.

Besides, most people's chilling water temps, quantities, pumps and other system components would be different than mine and result in completely different times. The absolute chilling time would not have been useful, and probably misleading.

 

[passedpawn]

I wrote them in an email and asked them how much it would cost to double the number of runs on their current cyclone. They responded back with the Typhoon and I went for it.

For a while I was going to build my own but my copper sweating isn't the greatest anymore and I have liked everything Jaded sells that I have seen. I pulled the trigger on the beta and sent them a few reports. They did not seem as enthused as I was. I think they were wanting something different from the report.

The Scottish I brewed night before last chilled 12 gallons to 70 degree center kettle in 15 minutes. output of whirlpool at that point was about 59. To me that is really fast. to clear most out of the chiller after I am done, I slowly pump sanitizer and watch out the last output hose and never waste anything.

Typhoon is a great chiller and they should add it to their site.

Should we assume that the cost of the typhoon was twice the cyclone?

 

[passedpawn]

Why did most of your hop debris get sucked into the fermenter?

Most of the hops in the kettle got sucked into the fermentor because it was still in suspension (i.e., did not settle after whirlpool). The second batch, which sat for about 6 hours, did settle fairly well, but I'm still not happy with how much of the hops got into the fermentor.

This year I'm re-inventing my system, and hopefully I will come up with some better method of removing the hops at the end of the boil. I might still end up with a hop sack (or steel version of it), but I will add it at the end f the boil and recirculate through it while chilling.

 

[BrunDog]

That's odd. The whirlpool should work pretty well. It doesn't eliminate everything but it should reduce it dramatically. I have a pile of hop junk in a mound underneath my element after whirlpooling for 15 mins. I think speed and port location play a role. How are you whirlpooling?

 

[passedpawn]

That's odd. The whirlpool should work pretty well. It doesn't eliminate everything but it should reduce it dramatically. I have a pile of hop junk in a mound underneath my element after whirlpooling for 15 mins. I think speed and port location play a role. How are you whirlpooling?

Port is on the side of keggle, so it should be well above the trub. While chilling, the wort is returned horizontally, causing the body of wort to spin in the kettle to spin slowly. I just turn off the pump when chilled down to 70F, and let it sit undisturbed. I do add whirlfloc at 5m. When I then pump to fermentor, flow is choked down.

 

[markstache]

I'd love to compare this JaDeD chiller to the Morebeer Chillzilla. My brother has one and loves it. One advantage the Chillzilla has is that it uses convoluted copper for its internal tubing. Convoluted copper will increase the turbulence and likely improve the chilling time.

I keep meaning to pick up some copper wire that I can thread into my immersion chiller in order to get this effect. I think either knotting the wire at intervals or soldering on a nut or other obstruction would help increase the turbulence. I got the idea from a DIY counter flow chiller where the guy wrapped the copper in wire before adding the water sleave and bending.

I'll try to remember to pick up some wire and run a pre/post test this weekend.

 

[BrunDog]

Port is on the side of keggle, so it should be well above the trub. While chilling, the wort is returned horizontally, causing the body of wort to spin in the kettle to spin slowly. I just turn off the pump when chilled down to 70F, and let it sit undisturbed. I do add whirlfloc at 5m. When I then pump to fermentor, flow is choked down.

Are you getting a cone at the bottom? Is your pickup to the side?

 

[sredz]

I wrote them in an email and asked them how much it would cost to double the number of runs on their current cyclone. They responded back with the Typhoon and I went for it.

For a while I was going to build my own but my copper sweating isn't the greatest anymore and I have liked everything Jaded sells that I have seen. I pulled the trigger on the beta and sent them a few reports. They did not seem as enthused as I was. I think they were wanting something different from the report.

The Scottish I brewed night before last chilled 12 gallons to 70 degree center kettle in 15 minutes. output of whirlpool at that point was about 59. To me that is really fast. to clear most out of the chiller after I am done, I slowly pump sanitizer and watch out the last output hose and never waste anything.

Typhoon is a great chiller and they should add it to their site.

I have a Typhoon also. It's a massive chiller! My chill times have not been as fast as yours, but overall I've still been very pleased with it. I believe my last batch took about 25 minutes to chill to 68 degrees. I run cold tap water straight into the chiller and whirlpool back into the kettle. Usually I run the pump wide open. Clean up is pretty easy, they even included a nice brush that I can pull through the tubing.

 

[passedpawn]

Are you getting a cone at the bottom? Is your pickup to the side?

Yep, pickup on side. Cone? It's hard to say. By the time I've pumped contents down, it's just a layer of hops sludge an inch thick.

 

[LuckyBeagleBrewing]

Should we assume that the cost of the typhoon was twice the cyclone?

Sorry for the delayed response. I am not sure what they intend on charging but it was a lot less than double. That is a beta of course.

It is worth every penny. For what I do, it is perfect.