Cask Ale conditioning at 55 degrees?

[wdwalter]

I'm really getting into the process of trying to re-create the authentic English Cask Ale's that I've had in England, but have only made one solid attempt so far. I conditioned at 70 and everything was just fine.

Everything I have read/seen in videos from professional brewers who make real cask ale, follow the same basic guideline:

1 week primary
2 weeks conditioning in cellar at 50-55 degrees.

Before I actually try this I keep thinking there is absolutely no way this is going to work. If you were to bottle condition at 50-55 you would have completely flat bottles after 2 weeks.

Am I missing something here?

 

[JuanMoore]

Cask ale usually has very very low carbonation levels, typically only as much as is leftover from fermentation (~0.8 vol). It's generally not bottled, but rather served from a cask or a keg (hence the name). It's usually served by gravity or using a beer engine (hand pump), rather than pushed out with CO2 pressure which would carbonate it. Typically a "cask breather" is used, which replaces the headspace with CO2 to keep the beer from oxidizing.

Real ale is very similar, and quite popular in the UK. It's essentially the same as cask ale except no external CO2 is applied at all, so the headspace is simply replaced with air, and it needs to be consumed quickly before it gets oxidized.

Here's some general info on real ale-

http://www.camra.org.uk/aboutale

Edit: And if you were in Northern England, they most likely served cask ale with a "sparkler", which is a plastic piece that attaches to the faucet and creates turbulence to make the beer foam up a little. It removes some of the carbonation, and makes for a softer mouthfeel.

 

[Hop_Hero]

The Brewing Network had an excellent show on cask ale beer a few months back. Excellent information on there.

 

[dzlater]

I'm really getting into the process of trying to re-create the authentic English Cask Ale's that I've had in England, but have only made one solid attempt so far. I conditioned at 70 and everything was just fine.

Everything I have read/seen in videos from professional brewers who make real cask ale, follow the same basic guideline:

1 week primary
2 weeks conditioning in cellar at 50-55 degrees.

Before I actually try this I keep thinking there is absolutely no way this is going to work. If you were to bottle condition at 50-55 you would have completely flat bottles after 2 weeks.

Am I missing something here?

I have been wondering the same thing.

 

[wdwalter]

Cask ale usually has very very low carbonation levels, typically only as much as is leftover from fermentation (~0.8 vol). It's generally not bottled, but rather served from a cask or a keg (hence the name). It's usually served by gravity or using a beer engine (hand pump), rather than pushed out with CO2 pressure which would carbonate it. Typically a "cask breather" is used, which replaces the headspace with CO2 to keep the beer from oxidizing.

Real ale is very similar, and quite popular in the UK. It's essentially the same as cask ale except no external CO2 is applied at all, so the headspace is simply replaced with air, and it needs to be consumed quickly before it gets oxidized.

Here's some general info on real ale-

http://www.camra.org.uk/aboutale

Edit: And if you were in Northern England, they most likely served cask ale with a "sparkler", which is a plastic piece that attaches to the faucet and creates turbulence to make the beer foam up a little. It removes some of the carbonation, and makes for a softer mouthfeel.

Thanks for the input, however I'm pretty far past this information. Since I got back from England last August I've done some pretty extensive research into the cask ale scene. I've got a homemade beer engine (RV water pump) and a diy cask breather set up. I have read "cellarmanship" and have a pretty sound understanding of the cask beer process. I got the basics down (gravity fed vs beer engine, pin vs firkin, hard spile vs soft, etc). What I am asking is simply how do you get ANY carbonation if you condition beer (in any vessel) at 55 degrees. Most ale yeast go dormant at 60-62 so it doesn't matter if your beer is in a cask, theoretically there should be no additional carbonation buildup. NOW, I know beer holds a certain amount of CO2 at a given temp. That's how a cask ale will maintain a low (.8-1.2 vol) level of carbonation after venting in the cellar and maintain that for a few days.

But if we're only talking about the residual CO2 from primary fermentation, why do breweries add yeast/priming sugar/fining agent at casking/cellaring time? There's a good episode on Brewing TV, I think it's called "gone firkin" where they rack green beer into a cask with yeast/priming/fining, and roll it to a cellar (50-55 degrees) to condition (brewer says 2 weeks) before serving.

Before I let a beer sit in a cask for 2 weeks (which I think will be a wast of 2 weeks time) I'm trying to understand the science behind it. Why wouldn't I just let it sit at 70 for 2 weeks (a proven method for conditioning bottles)?

Hopefully this clears up my question a bit.

 

[JuanMoore]

Most ale yeasts are still active at cellar temps, just much slower. Even if the yeast stopped working at cellar temps you wouldn't have completely flat beer, you'd still have all of the residual carbonation from fermentation. The vast majority of cask ales don't have any priming sugar added, they are simply moved to the casks while still fermenting, typically1-2 gravity points away from FG, and the residual fermentation in the cask during cellaring is what adds the small amount of additional carbonation. Some cask ale is allowed to ferment fully, and then priming sugar is added. Either way, the level of carbonation isn't significantly higher than the residual amount already in the beer. Typically being served young, and not cold crashed, there will be a lot of yeast in suspension, which is why finings are often used.

If you're using a low pressure propane regulator as your DIY cask breather like many of the beer engine builds I've seen, you don't really need to do anything to carbonate your beer. The regulator will supply a steady pressure of 0.5 psi, and the carbonation will eventually reach equilibrium with that pressure and your storage temp regardless of what else you do or what the carbonation level started at. At 55° that's 1.04 vol, and at 50° that's 1.15 vol.

Do you have a build thread for your beer engine? I'd love to see pics.

 

[wdwalter]

Thanks for the good info. I didn't do a thread for my beer engine, but I took it apart recently as I am re-vamping my entire cask set up. I plan to build a better one with the same pump. I will plan to take pictures and post to the forum. I started a thread a while back called "cask ale mission," which is where I will post the pics of the build. I got busy and didn't have a chance to update the thread but I plan to dig it up and keep it going.

Right now I'm thinking I may just get a real beer engine this summer after I can save up for it. I have a relative in England who could ship to me so I may try and find one on Ebay UK. Check out the thread for all the updates!

 

[laughingboysbrew]

I'm really getting into the process of trying to re-create the authentic English Cask Ale's that I've had in England, but have only made one solid attempt so far. I conditioned at 70 and everything was just fine.

Everything I have read/seen in videos from professional brewers who make real cask ale, follow the same basic guideline:

1 week primary
2 weeks conditioning in cellar at 50-55 degrees.

Before I actually try this I keep thinking there is absolutely no way this is going to work. If you were to bottle condition at 50-55 you would have completely flat bottles after 2 weeks.

Am I missing something here?

Reviving an old thread, since I've learned a lot in the last year on cask conditioning and want to share back.

You have three options for cask 'conditioning'. 1) You rack the beer with a degree of certainty slightly above final gravity which will allow the beer to continue a 'secondary fermentation" in the cask as it reaches FG. Another (easier) option for home brewers is to prime the cask after racking. If you prime after, the best way is to 2) kräusen with active fermenting beer of the same type... If that is not an option, you can 3) prime by adding more sugar (dextrose) and new yeast.

Option 3) is the least preferred since it introduces the risk of over sweetening and you most likely will need to add more yeast. The first option is obviously best, followed by second. In talking with brewers that do high volume in casks, they have all recommended Option2) for home brewing: Make a batch for cask and follow it up with a batch for keg/bottles timing the fermentation right so you can pull some off to prime the cask.

With that said, I have had lots of success with that method and NEVER have an issue carbonating a pin (5gal cask). I ferment out completely on primary 7-10 days then rack and condition 7-10 days in cask (for a low gravity ale). Secondary fermentation at ~54F is critical because of several factors: the CO2 absorbs in the beer appropriately to produce near 2.1 vols (so when you vent, it doesn't vent excess) and the temp encourages clarity/yeast flocculation.

Lastly - check out UKBrewing's supply for beer engines and cask widge. The Cask Widge (though not CAMRA approved) taps into an upright cask's keystone and allows you to sample the beer and recap during conditioning phase. Upright cask fits in a fridge much better. It also allows you to hook up a breather to reintroduce CO2 to increase the life of the cask (7-10 days versus 2-3).

Hope this helps.

 

[Porchfddler]

I also have a pin and the cask widge setup with a beer engine. I have had great fun having a couple of cask ale parties. I have primed with sugar and filled the cask when it was a couple of points above F.g and both worked well. I'm having trouble with my cask breather setup, filled the c02 tanks several times and have had it leak after a couple of days. Do you have any insights in setting this up successfully? Thanks for your cask ale posts they have been helpful and it's nice to know there are others out there on this mission!

 

[laughingboysbrew]

I also have a pin and the cask widge setup with a beer engine. I have had great fun having a couple of cask ale parties. I have primed with sugar and filled the cask when it was a couple of points above F.g and both worked well. I'm having trouble with my cask breather setup, filled the c02 tanks several times and have had it leak after a couple of days. Do you have any insights in setting this up successfully? Thanks for your cask ale posts they have been helpful and it's nice to know there are others out there on this mission!

Hmmm, maybe a malfunctioning breather? No issues on my end, though I've never kept it longer than 5 days...no noticeable excess-loss in CO2 during that time. When connected, can you hear the regulator letting gas through when you are not pulling a beer out? I only hear it letting gas in during the pull. Maybe a little old school soap/bubble test for leaks?

 

[Porchfddler]

It could be the breather, when I first hooked it up I had the breather hooked up backwards, didn't realize there were arrows to say which way it went. Perhaps I ruined it. I have no experience with C02 other than this this I find the whole regulator thing a bit confusing. Are you using any particular hose type? I did buy some kids party bubbles U'll give it another try and listen fir the cask breather on the pull. Thanks

 

[laughingboysbrew]

It could be the breather, when I first hooked it up I had the breather hooked up backwards, didn't realize there were arrows to say which way it went. Perhaps I ruined it. I have no experience with C02 other than this this I find the whole regulator thing a bit confusing. Are you using any particular hose type? I did buy some kids party bubbles U'll give it another try and listen fir the cask breather on the pull. Thanks

no specific type of tubing, just high pressure 1/4" vinyl tubing any LHBS would have for gas. Critical - don't use any more than 2-3psi.

 

[dyqik]

I'm doing cask conditioning on a Harvey's Best Bitter clone in a pressure barrel (a Speidel Fermenter with a pressure relief valve/CO2 injector valve added) at the moment. I primed with an ounce of corn sugar (calculated for 1.5 vols CO2) and it's currently at 62F in my fermentation chamber while it cleans up a bit. I'll turn it down to 55F later I guess. I'll be using the 8g CO2 cylinders to top up when serving as necessary.

Do you think I need to add a bit more priming sugar to get the carbonation volume up to 2.1? I'm thinking of serving around 60F, as 55F is pretty much the minimum for cask beer - many pubs in the UK serve and cellar a bit warmer than that (12C is the minimum that CAMRA will accept for Good Beer Guide listing, but 14-15C is better to my taste).

 

[laughingboysbrew]

I'm doing cask conditioning on a Harvey's Best Bitter clone in a pressure barrel (a Speidel Fermenter with a pressure relief valve/CO2 injector valve added) at the moment. I primed with an ounce of corn sugar (calculated for 1.5 vols CO2) and it's currently at 62F in my fermentation chamber while it cleans up a bit. I'll turn it down to 55F later I guess. I'll be using the 8g CO2 cylinders to top up when serving as necessary.

Do you think I need to add a bit more priming sugar to get the carbonation volume up to 2.1? I'm thinking of serving around 60F, as 55F is pretty much the minimum for cask beer - many pubs in the UK serve and cellar a bit warmer than that (12C is the minimum that CAMRA will accept for Good Beer Guide listing, but 14-15C is better to my taste).

Most will say ideal vols of 1.1 is good for cask. That is after it has reached proper "condition" (carbonation level) and ready for serving. If you overshoot that (e.g. 2.1vols) during your secondary ferm in cask, it's obviously easier to come down. However, the trade off is the excess sugar/yeast - you run the risk of a sweet, non-clear beer.

My problem was never about priming sugar, it was about enough viable yeast. Once I started krausening from another fermenting batch - my conditioning got a whole lot more predictable. Also CO2 vols level "in" beer is NOT determined directly by the amount of sugar used...it's the temp. You obviously have to have enough sugar to get to that level, but at a certain temp, some CO2 will be absorbed and the rest will just be pressurized in the headspace. With that said, I would definitely condition the beer at 55F for several days for the vols level to rise. Assuming yeast health, your 1.5vols target should give you enough CO2 to come back down to 1.1vols.

Then, a couple days before serving, vent with soft spile to allow beer to come back "down" to correct condition and then hard spile until serving.

 

[dyqik]

I'm using a pressure barrel, so I don't have any spiles to deal with. Yeast health should be good, as I barrelled after only a week of fermentation using a correct sized starter of WLP002. My main issue may be flocculation, as although I transferred some yeast deliberately with the beer, WLP002 is very flocculant, and the beer was almost completely clear on transferring.

It's turned down to 57F now, which I think is my target temp. I will have to move the beer to a fridge (along with the temp controller) for serving, as it's currently in the fermentation chamber.

 

[sebring96hbg]

Hello,

First, I see that the info in this thread has evolved in the right direction. Out of caution, do not condition at 70F for more than three days unless one wants to recreate Mt. Vesuvius by the seventh day as it will erupt.

A couple or three days at 65 to 70F will help kick-start the secondary fermentation. After this time, the pin should be moved to a temp-controlled chamber at 50 to 55F.

For priming, can 8 oz of chilled clear wort from the same batch for a pin or 16 oz for a firkin. Set the jar aside, since the canning process has preserved the wort, until you are ready to prime.