Cask through font tap

[danwilderspin]

Hi guys - I currently have a couple of hand pulls and a co2 cask breather setup - it’s great and keeps the conditioning in for a good week or two.
The problem is the wastage is about a pint per pump when I pull the lines through.

I had an idea which I’ve not seen anyone mention on the internet which was to connect a flojet to the cask then the output of the flojet to the font - keeping everything cask side the same.
I’ve done it and it works pretty well. The only problem I have is that the beer is getting quite flat after a couple of days which the hand pulls didn’t cause?
Any ideas why and how to fix?

Cheers

 

[Peebee]

"Breathers" are not really suitable to retain any CO2 condition in homebrew after a week or so. They'll allow CO2 condition to fall below 1 atmosphere in that time (to 0.85-ish ... depends on the weather). Breathers work in Pubs where the cask can be expected to be empty in a week.

Try these instead of breathers (they are Spanish, but you're in UK so this link is best):

https://www.gasproducts.co.uk/clesse-bp1813-adjustable-propane-regulator-4kg-50-150mbar.html

Set to about 3-7 (to taste). All sorts of adapters to fit the regulator's BSP threaded ports to you gas lines. Connect downstream from your cylinder regulator (i.e. use these Cleese regulators as SECONDARY regulators! Like your breather).

 

[Peebee]

...more!

I have used a pump to serve beer (a historical ale emulation) at nil pressure but had the Cleese as well (set to "0", or 50mbar). If using a "Breather" and the popular "Corny keg" you risk cracking the lid seal open.

Those "Flojet" diaphragm pumps are a good idea, they are very gentle on the beer (despite the noise). I used an impeller type pump which are not gentle on the beer! But they won't potentially generate a vacuum in the cask/keg like a diaphragm pump.

 

[McMullan]

If you want to replace a hand pull pump with a tap to serve beer, you’ll need to push the beer with CO2 rather than pull it with a pump. No problem serving beer from a tap, but it won’t replicate a hand pull. Sounds like you might need to modify your cask set up for higher CO2 pressure to maintain condition, especially when serving from a tap. I can swap from a low pressure (Cleese) regulator back to primary via a carbonation cap on the outside of my caskeraror.

 

[danwilderspin]

When you say set to 3-7 is that psi?

We had gone with regs directly before set to about 5 and the flojet but got a bit more fobbing - I guess these Cleese regs offer more control can you get John guest fittings?

Another solution to my problem is would an angram hand pull work if I dropped the pipe from 3/8 to 3/16?

 

[McMullan]

Another solution to my problem is would an angram hand pull work if I dropped the pipe from 3/8 to 3/16?

No.

 

[danwilderspin]

We have cask widge the same as that - what John guest fitting is that that you’ve screwed in?

 

[danwilderspin]

also another question on this do you guys run pure co2 (like me) what life does it give you in a cask? I get a good 4 weeks.. I’m thinking of swapping to 60/40 and wondered if I could expect similar?

 

[Peebee]

When you say set to 3-7 is that psi?

We had gone with regs directly before set to about 5 and the flojet but got a bit more fobbing - I guess these Cleese regs offer more control can you get John guest fittings?

Another solution to my problem is would an angram hand pull work if I dropped the pipe from 3/8 to 3/16?

No. The dial is numbered 0-10. It has a range 50 to 150 milli-bars. So, 0=50mbar, 10=150mbar. 150mbar is roughly 2psi (just over).

Forget pressure gauges and "psi". You would need special gauges to measure as low as 2psi. And you don't need to know that pressure!

You can get JG fitting to screw into 3/8" and 1/4" BSP and have 3/8" pushfit (common pipe size in UK, but you can get for 5/16" tube too) on t'other side.

 

[Peebee]

also another question on this do you guys run pure co2 (like me) what life does it give you in a cask? I get a good 4 weeks.. I’m thinking of swapping to 60/40 and wondered if I could expect similar?

Depends on beer ... 4 weeks, easy, longer (1 or 2 years ...) for stronger beer. You are talking cask style beers, and they will change with keeping.

60/40 mixed gas? Don't! You can play tricks using 30/70 (sub-atmospheric pressure CO2 condition), but you are just starting out, leave "tricks" for later (I've never bothered with it). You can always have a head on hand-pumped beer, so using 30/70 for a My Whippy ice-cream "nitro" head is a waste of time (or ... a waste of a hand-pump).

 

[DuncB]

Looks like one of these.
https://www.brewshop.co.nz/duotight-5-8-for-coupler-or-shank.html

 

[Peebee]

Male thread!

JG don't seem to do for 5/16" (8mm) pipe either (but 3/8" is commonest in UK):
Grey Acetal Straight Adaptor (BSP Thread)
(PI010812S and PI011212S for 3/8" pipe, 1/4" BSP and 3/8" BSP).

 

[McMullan]

From memory, 3/4” female BSP to 3/8” push fit and the gas tap fitting is 1/2” male BSP to 5/16” push fit. Note push fittings are not designed to be repeatedly dis/assembled, hence the upstream 1/4” flare-to-flare fitting, which makes the gas line more adaptable anyway.

 

[danwilderspin]

Cheers good info

 

[danwilderspin]

Hi guys - I got the propane regulator as mentioned but I a lot of co2 comes through is very audible even in setting 1 is this right? I have got a Micromatic regulator that’s goes down down to 3psi and the new one is loader on 1 than that at 3psi by some margin - trying to work out if I have a bad unit

 

[McMullan]

Have you done a leak test of the assembly you’ve put together?

 

[danwilderspin]

Yes - if I put a tap in the end and turn it of its quiet - I’ve just swapped the two regs over

 

[Peebee]

What have you got between the bare cylinder and the bare keg? Should be:

CO2 cylinder
Primary regulator
(optional distribution manifold)
Secondary regulator (New Cleese LPG regulator)
Keg

Approximately what psi is your primary regulator putting out?

 

[danwilderspin]

Exactly this - 60psi primary input which is well within the Cleese tolerance

 

[McMullan]

wrong thread

 

[Peebee]

Exactly this - 60psi primary input which is well within the Cleese tolerance

Good! You can underdo it too which is what I was checking, but the regulator will be more than happy with that (4 bar-ish).

[EDIT: And I know of people attaching LPG regulators directly to CO2 cylinders ... that makes 'em sing a bit.]

 

[Peebee]

wrong thread

Phew, thank goodness for that. I rely on you to keep me on the rails:

The odd "like" appearing on me posts = "okay".

Wagging sausages ... erm? ... might be "not very good"?