Carbonation & sediment after bottling

[PhoebeElizabeth]

Hi guys,

10 days ago I bottled my first 1 gallon batch of hard cider which I made using a kit (craft a brew). I pretty much followed the instructions to the letter and picked through this forum whenever I felt a bit lost, but now I feel like I've run into a bit of a wall unfortunately.

I checked my bottles today and there is no sign whatsoever of carbonation. It looks totally flat. After I think about 1.5 - 2 months of fermentation I siphoned the cider into a sterilized bucket, added a cup of water which had 2 tbs of sugar dissolved into it, and then siphoned it into the bottles. I mixed it all with a sterilized spoon before bottling. Should I be more patient or is this batch ruined? I read somewhere around here that shaking helps, is this what I should be doing?

Also, when I observed that there was a small amount of sediment in the bottles. I read that this is not perse abnormal, but could this be hampering the fermentation?

Hope someone can help me out here!

 

[RedlegEd]

Hi guys,

10 days ago I bottled my first 1 gallon batch of hard cider which I made using a kit (craft a brew). I pretty much followed the instructions to the letter and picked through this forum whenever I felt a bit lost, but now I feel like I've run into a bit of a wall unfortunately.

I checked my bottles today and there is no sign whatsoever of carbonation. It looks totally flat. After I think about 1.5 - 2 months of fermentation I siphoned the cider into a sterilized bucket, added a cup of water which had 2 tbs of sugar dissolved into it, and then siphoned it into the bottles. I mixed it all with a sterilized spoon before bottling. Should I be more patient or is this batch ruined? I read somewhere around here that shaking helps, is this what I should be doing?

Also, when I observed that there was a small amount of sediment in the bottles. I read that this is not perse abnormal, but could this be hampering the fermentation?

Hope someone can help me out here!

Hi! Welcome to HBT. Sediment at the bottom is normal for bottle conditioning and won't hurt anything. Two questions. What temperature have your bottles been conditioning, and when you checked your bottles, how did you do it? Did you actually open one and pour, or just looked for bubbles through the bottle? Sometimes gently shaking will help, or moving to a little warmer location (72°F/22°C) for a week or so. In any case, as long as the cider is not infected, it won't be ruined, it may just be "still" (non-carbonated.) Hope this helps.

 

[416Brewer]

I wouldn't shake them. You want the sediment to remain sediment. The sugar you added started a mini fermentation in the bottle which A) Creates Bubbles B) Creates Sediment. 10 days is still really early in the bottle. I usually wait 4 months before opening my first. Also, Pour gently and leave the sediment in the bottle, not in your glass.

Good luck, hope it works out.

 

[bucketnative]

If you used 2 Tbsp of sugar, let's assume that's 25 g.

That is enough to yield about 2.7 vol CO2 in a 1-gal batch. That's noticeable carbonation. In my experience, this may take up to a month to develop depending on the health of the yeast. You can try rousing the sediment (yeast) off the bottom of the bottle, but best to be patient.

Even if carbonation never develops (dead yeast), still cider is not bad cider. Don't dump it. Drink it.

 

[PhoebeElizabeth]

Hi! Welcome to HBT. Sediment at the bottom is normal for bottle conditioning and won't hurt anything. Two questions. What temperature have your bottles been conditioning, and when you checked your bottles, how did you do it? Did you actually open one and pour, or just looked for bubbles through the bottle? Sometimes gently shaking will help, or moving to a little warmer location (72°F/22°C) for a week or so. In any case, as long as the cider is not infected, it won't be ruined, it may just be "still" (non-carbonated.) Hope this helps.

Thanks! My cider as well as my bottles have always been in a dark room where it's approximately 18-20°C. I just looked through the glass for bubbles and checked underneath because I thought that might be the first place where any carbonation would show.

I suppose I'll try to be patient for a little longer before resorting to stirring up the yeast.

 

[RedlegEd]

Thanks! My cider as well as my bottles have always been in a dark room where it's approximately 18-20°C. I just looked through the glass for bubbles and checked underneath because I thought that might be the first place where any carbonation would show.

I suppose I'll try to be patient for a little longer before resorting to stirring up the yeast.

Patience is the hardest part of any brewing endeavor. Yeast are wonderful little critters, but they work at their own pace, which is sometimes much slower than we would like. As other posters have said, please give it time. Ciders will get much better as they age. As for bubbles, you will not see any in the bottle until you open it. The CO2 is absorbed into the liquid and will not come out (i.e. bubble,) until the pressure in the bottle is relieved.

 

[RobertMT]

I bottle one PET bottle (plastic 12 oz soda bottle), along with glass and squeeze to test, when it starts to get hard, I test one. If you have sediment on bottom, you likely have carb, I would cool one down and taste it. I've never been able to "see" carb in bottle, until you open it. Soda is carbed much more than cider, so if bottle feels as hard as when full of soda, you're overcarbed.

 

[PhoebeElizabeth]

Thank you both for your advice and help!

Knowing now that carbonation is not visible in the bottles is a great relief. Also, I thought that the type of yeast might influence the amount of carbonation, is this correct? At the moment there's some kind of generic 'fruity ale' yeast in there which came in the pack, but I read in various places that champagne yeast is highly recommended for cider. Does this have something to do with the carbonation?

On a sidenote: so glad I found this forum. Attempting to brew cider with only a 2-page manual is quite daunting without additional advice!

 

[bucketnative]

At the moment there's some kind of generic 'fruity ale' yeast in there which came in the pack, but I read in various places that champagne yeast is highly recommended for cider. Does this have something to do with the carbonation?

The biggest difference between ale yeast and champagne yeast in a cider is going to be attenuation, or how much sugar is converted to alcohol. Under the same conditions, the ale yeast should attenuate less than champagne yeast. This will leave a greater amount of residual sugar and the cider will be less dry (sweeter).

For me, I prefer dry cider so I go with a champagne yeast like Red Star Pasteur Champagne or their Premier Cuvee.

I haven't noticed a difference in carbonation when using wine yeast or ale yeast. It all depends on how much yeast remains after your fermentation process (some people rack to a secondary fermentation vessel to remove a lot of lees - dead/sedimented yeast). There will always be some amount of yeast in suspension (invisible to naked eye), but speed of carbonation will depend on their health.

Some people will add a bit of champagne yeast to their cider before bottling if they have gone through an very long aging process (multiple months), because the viability of the yeast from fermentation is not sufficient to generate carbonation.

 

[416Brewer]

Just outta curiosity, what recipe did you use? Where did you get it?

 

[PhoebeElizabeth]

Just outta curiosity, what recipe did you use? Where did you get it?

I used the recipe which came with a hard cider starter pack from 'craft a brew'. It's really pretty basic - it's hardly even a recipe. It called for 1 gallon of organic apple juice w/o preservatives and to that I only had to add the packet of 'fruity ale' yeast, which was provided in the starting pack. So no added sugar or sweeteners. The recipe stated to leave it in the primary for 2 weeks. Honestly I didn't follow this part of the recipe because the cider seemed way cloudy, so I left it for something around the 2 months mark. Then before bottling I added 2tbs sugar dissolved in 1 cup of water and that's pretty much where I am right now.

I'm starting to suspect I should have followed the recipe - which called for a shorter primary fermentation - so there would be more live yeast left in the bottles to eat the added sugar and thus carbonate the cider. I can't speak to the quality of the yeast either as it just came in the beginners pack. Good to know though that champagne yeast will create a drier cider, because that's also my preference.

 

[MindenMan]

As was said before be patient. Cider isn't always fast to carbonate, and aging the cider is always a plus.