Carbonation issues

[SimonMM]

To all,

I have had the same problem for the last 2 batches of cider I have made, and I am wondering if anyone has had the same issue and could offer some guidance?

The problem is that after I have siphoned my cider into their individual bottles, only the first 7-8 bottles seem to carbonate, whereas the last 6-7 remain flat (pretty much forever).

Before I bottle, I dissolve 3/4 cup of white sugar into 1/2 a cup of boiled water. I also add 1/4 cup of Stevia to this mixture for sweetening. I then wait for this mixture to cool to room temperature before adding it to the 5 gallons of cider.

Within a minute or so, I then start bottling the cider.

I don't stir the mixture or leave it for an extended amount of time.

After 2 days, the first 4-6 bottles are carbonating nicely and for me, are perfect, but the remaining bottles never seem to get anywhere near the levels of carbonation I desire.

Questions:

Am I bottling 'too quickly'?
Should I leave more time for the sugar to dissolve fully into the cider? Should I stir the mixture before each bottle is siphoned?

These are the only two 'logical' ideas I can come up with

I am at a loss, so any experience / answers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Simon.

 

[Maylar]

Stir it before bottling.

 

[myndflyte]

You got to stir it. Only waiting a minute between adding the sugar and bottling, without stirring, is not enough time for the sugar mixture to distribute evenly through the cider. You don't have to stir it before each bottle, just stir it before you start bottling. Or if you rack it to a different bucket to bottle, add the sugar water first and rack the cider on top of it.

 

[SimonMM]

DaveC and Myndflyte.

Thanks for the confirmation and advice.

I'll 'give it a whirl'.

 

[Drewed]

Stir before and during bottleing. You can also figure out how much to add to the invidual bottles, and dose it that way.
Have you checked the math, is 3/4 cup of sugar enough for 5 gallons? I use carbonation drop/ tabs so I truly don’t know.

 

[myndflyte]

Stir before and during bottleing. You can also figure out how much to add to the invidual bottles, and dose it that way.
Have you checked the math, is 3/4 cup of sugar enough for 5 gallons? I use carbonation drop/ tabs so I truly don’t know.

I think 3/4 cup for 5 gallons is pretty standard. But like you, I usually add sugar to each individual bottle. I never felt like I got an accurate volume so I thought doing it that was the safest way, albeit a little time consuming.

 

[SimonMM]

myndflyte -

I think I will try the 'per bottle' approach this time rather than adding all the sugar to the 5 gallons, as clearly this will ensure a more balanced carbonation over the individual bottles.

I assume that everything is done in the same way as described above, but just with the sugar solution being poured into each bottle before the cider is added, right?

Thanks, as always, for the feedback

 

[z-bob]

What size bottles are you using? If 12 oz or 22 oz beer bottles, you can use Domino sugar cubes (198 per pound) to carbonate them. Add one cube per 11 or 12 oz bottle, and two cubes per 22 oz bomber. The larger C&H sugar cubes are too big to fit in the bottle, and they are too much sugar anyway.
I don't remember the exact amount of sugar to use in 500 ml Euro-bombers, but I think it's 1 tsp of granulated sugar.

Add your Stevia or Splenda like you're doing now, but give it a gentle stir before bottling.

 

[SimonMM]

z-bob

I am using 1 litre Ikea bottles.

Unfortunately, the country I live in, KSA, doesn't encourage these 'fine arts', so these are the best bottles I can find. Next year we'll be leaving and moving to a more 'fermentable friendly' country, so I will purchase some smaller bottles, but for now, I am stuck with these.

I like the idea of using sugar cubes though, but I always thought that I had to dissolve the sugar with hot water first, otherwise it could create some dangerous bottle explosions. Other posters have commented on this and I have read something similar.

What's your experience with the cubes?

Thanks,
Simon.

 

[ismellweird]

To all,

I have had the same problem for the last 2 batches of cider I have made, and I am wondering if anyone has had the same issue and could offer some guidance?

The problem is that after I have siphoned my cider into their individual bottles, only the first 7-8 bottles seem to carbonate, whereas the last 6-7 remain flat (pretty much forever).

Before I bottle, I dissolve 3/4 cup of white sugar into 1/2 a cup of boiled water. I also add 1/4 cup of Stevia to this mixture for sweetening. I then wait for this mixture to cool to room temperature before adding it to the 5 gallons of cider.

Within a minute or so, I then start bottling the cider.

I don't stir the mixture or leave it for an extended amount of time.

After 2 days, the first 4-6 bottles are carbonating nicely and for me, are perfect, but the remaining bottles never seem to get anywhere near the levels of carbonation I desire.

Questions:

Am I bottling 'too quickly'?
Should I leave more time for the sugar to dissolve fully into the cider? Should I stir the mixture before each bottle is siphoned?

These are the only two 'logical' ideas I can come up with

I am at a loss, so any experience / answers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Simon.

Hi theres' a guy i talk to about brewing Pedro and he said it's pretty simple you just need to make sure the sugar water is stirred into the whole thing. If you just put it in you won't get it all through. needs to stir in so it's the ssme throughout. Sorry for the quick reply i have a problem tonight with my pump having sucked back from my septic.

 

[johnnyseko]

I am using 1 litre Ikea bottles.

If those are the same swing top Ikea bottles I own, I would not carbonate in them. I don't think they are meant to handle pressure. Also, your lack of carbonation might be from not getting a good seal at the closure.

If you can't get glass meant for carbonated beverages you may be better off using plastic soda bottles.

 

[z-bob]

z-bob

I am using 1 litre Ikea bottles.

Unfortunately, the country I live in, KSA, doesn't encourage these 'fine arts', so these are the best bottles I can find. Next year we'll be leaving and moving to a more 'fermentable friendly' country, so I will purchase some smaller bottles, but for now, I am stuck with these.

I like the idea of using sugar cubes though, but I always thought that I had to dissolve the sugar with hot water first, otherwise it could create some dangerous bottle explosions. Other posters have commented on this and I have read something similar.

What's your experience with the cubes?

Thanks,
Simon.

These bottles? http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40227983/ I don't know if those are strong enough. How thick is the glass?

I have some 1 liter brown beer bottles, and a bunch of 750ml swing-top French lemonade bottles from Aldi. Sugar cubes won't fit down the mouth of those so I use granulated sugar. There's no need to dissolve it, just measure the right amount in (you'll probably need a funnel) before filling.

 

[SimonMM]

If those are the same swing top Ikea bottles I own, I would not carbonate in them. I don't think they are meant to handle pressure. Also, your lack of carbonation might be from not getting a good seal at the closure.

If you can't get glass meant for carbonated beverages you may be better off using plastic soda bottles.

Johnnyseko-

Thanks for the info.

I have used these bottles for quite a while now, and I haven't actually had any breakages as a result of carbonation, so I think they are OK, but I am not 100% sure. You raise an interesting point. I hadn't really considered glass strength before (which seems daft to me now as I write this). I have become so focused on only half of the bottles carbonating I had totally missed this.

In terms of lack of seal, some of the bottles carbonate really well, but others don't, so I believe it's more about the fact that some of the bottles aren't getting enough sugar. However, I will definitely try plastic next time to see if there's a difference.

For this batch I added the sugar, hot water and Stevia into the bottles individually. I guess this ensures as accurate as possible distribution as possible of the sugar, so this should reduce the variables down so that I can, perhaps, identify what's causing this issue.

A previous poster stated that he added the sugar cubes into the bottles individually, so I am going to try this method next time. It might be a little more time consuming, but should provide a far more 'balanced' distribution across all the bottles.

Fingers crossed

 

[SimonMM]

These bottles? http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40227983/ I don't know if those are strong enough. How thick is the glass?

I have some 1 liter brown beer bottles, and a bunch of 750ml swing-top French lemonade bottles from Aldi. Sugar cubes won't fit down the mouth of those so I use granulated sugar. There's no need to dissolve it, just measure the right amount in (you'll probably need a funnel) before filling.

Thanks, z-bob.

I am going to go with the sugar cube method if they fit, or measure out the required amount of granulated sugar and add it to the bottles individually. This is a great idea.

As regards the strength of the glass.....I will Google what type of glass should be used, but if you have any specifications to hand, I would appreciate them.

Thanks,
Simon.

 

[Brentranome]

Rule of thumb for me has always been to put my simple syrup solution in my priming bucket first, then rack my primary fermenter, placing the hose in such a way that it causes a mild whirlpool in the priming bucket, no real stirring needed. I have started this practice with my beer because I didn't want to aerate it.

 

[SimonMM]

So, I decided to add sugar cubes into each bottle individually. After 3 days, there seems to be some bubbling on all the bottles, so, I am of the opinion that this has 'worked' in terms of the carbonation issues. I will continue to monitor the bottles and see where we are in about a week or so.

However, I am now unsure about something else.

I put some sugar cubes into each bottle, and when I just tasted a glass now, it seemed far sweeter than I am used to. I was under the impression that after 4 weeks in a primary fermenter that the yeast had 'finished' its job and that any further sugar added in would not add to the alcohol content, but actually serve as the basis for the carbonation.

Am I correct in this assumption?

I thought that the extra sugar I had added into each bottle would not sweeten the juice, purely add carbonation.

Any advice?

Thanks, as always, in advance

 

[Maylar]

Well, you added sugar... so yeah, it'll be sweeter. Until the yeasties convert it into CO2.

 

[johnnyseko]

My bottles take closer to 4 weeks to carb up. Be patient. It'll take a while for the sugar to get used up by the yeast - temperature will effect this as well.

 

[z-bob]

I have some cider that I bottled about 3 weeks ago. I opened a bottle last night and it was still totally flat. I was surprised because it fermented so fast in the carboy. That's okay, this batch might not carb. Usually it takes at least 2 weeks.

The priming sugar gets converted to alcohol and CO2, just like the sugar in the fermentor. I think it takes longer because the CO2 is trapped and can't bubble away.

 

[bmd2k1]

As a newbie....sure seems like the way to go for easy & consistent carbonation is kegging & CO2 tank...

Adding a system to my wish list [emoji3]

 

[Maylar]

If you're into small batches, I highly recommend the Northern Brewer Cannonball keg system.

 

[bmd2k1]

...and it would seem you could bottle from the keg setup (like craft cideries/breweries do with growlers).....if u needed em for any reason

 

[MarkKF]

I just did my first wild ferment. Ten days to ferment. One week to clear. Racked onto simple syrup and bottled. Now the question...will wild yeast carb.? It was fast to ferment and it hasn’t been long so I thought it would be good to go. Anyone ever bottle carb. with wild yeast only?