Carbing 1 gallon in 5 gall corny...

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Cazamodo

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Ok so I have some 1 gall experiments of ciders that i usually bottle, then pasturise to keep sweet and carbed.

It takes time and I sometimes loose a bottle or two, and always worry i didnt kill all the yeast.

Can I force carb 1 ggallon on a corny, then bottle it from there? would it take long to carb?
 
You should be able to. It will waste quite a bit of CO2, but it should work.

Do you have a beer-gun or other device for bottling from a keg? If you don't, you may find that the cider is flat after you bottle it, or even worse, oxidized. :(
 
If you purge in between carbing and serving, yes you'd waste CO2, but if you let the pressurized headspace push your beverage out, I'm sure you'd use the same amount or less in the end by carbing a smaller volume.
 
Get one of these and use 2 liter PET bottles.


Excellent idea. I actually was planning on getting some brown PET bottles.
Thats a great idea for my test batches....
Only problem is, Can I get them in the UK, and it seems a long process to carb a bottle at a time.


If I do bottle from the corny, I would use a counter pressure filler, so try to keep some carbonation.


This might be a really dumb question but, after carbing with the carbcap, can you just remove it and cap normally?
 
I'm sure you'd use the same amount or less in the end by carbing a smaller volume.

for carbonating 1 gallon, you would use exactly 1/5th of the CO2 that would normally be used to carbonate 5 full gallons to the same level, and you would use exactly the same amount of CO2 to push out 5 gallons as you would 1 gallon- in the same keg at the same pressure.


ive really been eyeballing those soda bottle ball locks. it would be super handy. i just havnt been able to force myself to spend $20 on 3 cents worth of plastic. the prices we pay for convenience...
 
. . . it seems a long process to carb a bottle at a time.
I never shake my kegs, but when using the Carbonator Cap and a PET bottle I'll shake the heck out of it. My procedure is to leave a few inches of head space in the PET bottle, set the regulator to 30PSI and charge it. Then remove the disconnect and shake. Do this several times until when you reconnect the gas nothing goes in.

I always do this to get an early sample of beer. And it's an easy way to carb up your extra beer. You know, the beer that won't fit into keg when transfering.
 
Looks like this is next on my list.
Although being me, I may try to put one together myself...
 
Looks like this is next on my list.
Although being me, I may try to put one together myself...

Yeah, it's a handy little gadget to have around. Just got one a few weeks ago. As mentioned, it's great for getting an early taste carbed up while waiting on the keg.

Also fun to experiment with carbing up other things. Carbonated iced tea is actually pretty darn good.
 
I made a few caps by simply drilling a 1/2" hole in the cap and cramming a plain ordinary tire valve through it. Tire valves are something like 2 for $5.

My store-bought carbonator cost $16, but leaks a little with the gas QD attached. It takes a little jiggling to settle it and stop the hissing.

You could probably make an all stainless version from a real gas port for not much more $$. A 1/4" pipe thread adapter for cornie posts costs $13 at Midwest.

The cost aside, everyone contemplating forced keg carbonation should play around first with a clear container to take the mystery and voodoo out of the process. Buy or make a carbonator cap, and fizz up some liquids in any old 2L bottle. Forget the agonizing and time-pressure graphs you've seen.

The short version is this:
  • Fill the container about 2/3 or 3/4 full. You want a little head space at the top.
  • Purge the atmospheric air with a brief burst of CO2.
  • Seal the container; pressurize it to carbonation pressure. (See the pressure charts.)
  • Shake the container and contents hard until it stops taking CO2. (Less than a minute.)
  • Let the liquid settle for a few moments;
  • ... then vent the excess pressure gently and slowly. Since you can see inside the bottle, vent it slowly and gently to avoid forcing the carbonation out of solution.

All that carbonation means is to dissolve CO2 into the liquid until it equalizes with the CO2 gas partial pressure in the sealed container. The variables are CO2 gas pressure, and liquid temperature. See this following chart for various CO2 volumes. (For what it's worth, BeerSmith's carbonation tool comes up numbers that very closely match the linked chart.)

http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

Notice that time is not one of the variables. It doesn't matter if you shake the liquid to speed up the process, or leave it alone for weeks to seep it in slowly. The process is self-governing, for the given CO2 pressure and liquid temperature. Once they equalize, your liquid will have absorbed the tabulated volumes of CO2.

Carbonation is exactly the same process as decarbonation. From our childhoods, we know that shaking soda pop releases its carbonation quickly. It's exactly the same as letting it get flat by itself in an open container, only faster.

For me, fastest is bestest. Vigorous, or even violent, shaking does that fastest and best. We shake our wort to oxygenate before pitching, without qualms about brutalizing the precious liquid. Shaking fermented beer in a pressurized CO2 environment is equally harmless.

To recap the process:
  • Vent the atmospheric air with a shot of CO2.
  • Adjust the regulator to the tabulated carbonation pressure.
  • Shake the container as hard or as little as you want.
  • Your beer is done carbonating when it no longer takes CO2 from the tank.
  • Disconnect the gas line until you're ready to serve.
  • Vent the keg gently to dispensing pressure to serve.
Assuming your keg holds pressure properly, the sealed container will hold its carbonation just as any sealed can of beer holds its carbonation. Let it get warm; let it get cold. Chill it before serving, or open it warm; it all comes out the same. This is worth repeating: Store the carbonated keg sealed and disconnected from the gas line. The carbonation level and gas pressure is self-regulating in the sealed container, just like any other can or bottle of beer.

If you carbonate in 2L bottles, you can swap out the carbonator cap for its original cap. Vent out the excess gas pressure slowly and gently first, of course. (BTW, this was all I set out to say when I started to post. I just got carried away with my frustration at the superstitions and myths surrounding carbonation.)

There are some remaining uncertainties, concerning storage. Should you store the beer carbonated? Or can you just (re-) carbonate immediately before serving?

Carbonation forces CO2 into solution, and forms carbonic acid in proportion to the dissolved CO2 volume. Thus, carbonation lowers the pH of your beer. My experience is that it changes the flavor profile somewhat. More empirical data is needed, but my impression is that beers stored warm and flat have slightly more hop flavor and aroma than those stored carbonated.
 
for carbonating 1 gallon, you would use exactly 1/5th of the CO2 that would normally be used to carbonate 5 full gallons to the same level, and you would use exactly the same amount of CO2 to push out 5 gallons as you would 1 gallon- in the same keg at the same pressure.

Agree, that 1/5th of the CO2 would need to be dissolved, but to pressurize the entire keg sufficiently for force carbing, wouldn't you need to add that much more gas? Force carbing is already gas-wasteful, but I'd think doing 1 gallon in a 5 gallon keg would be even worse, on a percentage basis.

Has anyone done this, who had a gauge to see how much gas it actually took?
 
MikeYoung, great post! Very informative! Confirms what I've been reading, at first I was under the impression I would need a week or so to carb each bottle, but now I realise I can do one and move on once its carbed, which should be quite quickly.
I also have the parts on the way for my own idea of a carbonation cap, which also uses a tyre valve.

Also Id never heard of the difference between storing beer carbed and flat, Im assuming, that as long as each was purged of O2, they would both keep the same apart from the carbanation levels?
I may have to experiment and carb up a bottle, and leave one flat to be carbed at drinking, and do a side by side comparison to see which I prefer!

Also as for kegging a gallon in a 5gal corny, I think I deffo wont be going down that road, as I have some plastic 1gal bottles that will perfectly batch carb with a carb cap. Perfect for root beer and cider experiments!
 

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