Carb bubbles out immediatly after pour

[NickL]

I'm new to kegging. I have an American Brown(Janets Brown from brewing classic styles) force carbed to 2.1 ish volumes at 49F. Its currently sitting at 13psi.
When I open the tap the whole glass fills with foam and the beer is flat by the time it clears.
I turned off the gas and opened the top to see if it would gush. Doesn't look like an infection. No gush.
Then I added just enough gas to fill a glass through the tap. The carb stays in. Perfect carbonation.
Why is my beer so quick to decarb?

 

[day_trippr]

Standard questions:

- what diameter is your beer line
- how long is your beer line
- what is the dispensing pressure
- picnic tap or faucet
- is this the first time you used this keg
- how did you carb the beer (priming sugar, or forced carb pressure/time/etc)
- is the beer line warm

And anything else you can add that might give us a clue...

Cheers!

 

[NickL]

-3/16 diameter
-about 5 feet long
-13psi despensing pressure
-perlick faucet
-I used the keg once before. Same problem
-I force carbed this at 30 psi over a few days
-the beer line is the same temp as the keg

 

[NickL]

Also, yes I am pulling on the faucet and not pushing. That would be funny.

 

[day_trippr]

We're closing in.

"30 psi over a few days" at what beer temperature?

Cheers!

 

[Picker]

I'm new to kegging also, but I'd say you need more beer line. I use 12 feet with 13 PSI at 40 degrees and it seems about right.
A few days at 30 PSI for carbing might be too long. Usually 24 hours does it for me.

 

[NickL]

So I shook it a bit at 30psi at 68F when I first put it in there because I was impatient. Then left it at 30psi while it cooled to 49F until it got to 2 ish volumes. Then I dropped the pressure to 13psi where I've been serving at.

I have been checking the carb level by filling a zip lock bag that I've sucked the air out of. Putting the end of the tap in there and pouring in some beer. Being careful not to let any air get in. Then sealing, shaking, and letting it warm up. Then I just eyeball and estimate the gas level. I know its crude but works pretty well.

 

[day_trippr]

Back to "the whole glass fills with foam": literally?
Does the foam pour smoothly or do you notice (or even hear) "spitting foam"?

If the O-ring under the keg Out (Beer) dip tube flange is missing or damaged, CO2 can be injected directly from the head space into the beer stream at that post. If it's missing the symptom usually includes "spitting" as gas pockets shoot through the dispensing system while a nicked ring will cause less severe foaming.

Otoh, there's your carbonation method. It's suspect.
The shaking at 30 psi/room temperature on top of the rest of the high-pressure regimen just sounds like a hyper-carbonated mess in the making.

Otherwise, your beer line is too short by half, imo. If you were having less profound issues, that might explain them entirely. But even a 5 foot 3/16" ID beer line isn't going to fill "the whole glass with foam"...

Cheers!

 

[butterpants]

I have been checking the carb level by filling a zip lock bag that I've sucked the air out of. Putting the end of the tap in there and pouring in some beer. Being careful not to let any air get in. Then sealing, shaking, and letting it warm up. Then I just eyeball and estimate the gas level. I know its crude but works pretty well.

this is not correct. you're thinking 'volumes' too literally

just use this chart, please. oh and look up the definition of equilibrium
http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

 

[NickL]

Back to "the whole glass fills with foam": literally?
Does the foam pour smoothly or do you notice (or even hear) "spitting foam"?

If the O-ring under the keg Out (Beer) dip tube flange is missing or damaged, CO2 can be injected directly from the head space into the beer stream at that post. If it's missing the symptom usually includes "spitting" as gas pockets shoot through the dispensing system while a nicked ring will cause less severe foaming.

Otoh, there's your carbonation method. It's suspect.
The shaking at 30 psi/room temperature on top of the rest of the high-pressure regimen just sounds like a hyper-carbonated mess in the making.

Otherwise, your beer line is too short by half, imo. If you were having less profound issues, that might explain them entirely. But even a 5 foot 3/16" ID beer line isn't going to fill "the whole glass with foam"...

Cheers!

Good comments! Thanks!

I never noticed a hissing sound but I poured a glass with my head by the out connection. I didnt notice anything.

I measured the tap hose instead of estimating and got just over 4 feet. I did notice that the tap pressure felt high but I didn't think much of it. The serving pressure was correct.

I am betting its a combination of a few of your suggestions. Its probably way overcarbed. That seems to be the simplest explanation. I really wish I had a way to measure this better.

 

[masonsjax]

Yep, definitely overcarbed. You'll need to vent the pressure several times/day until it equalizes to the serving pressure.

In the future I'd recommend just bursting at 30psi to seal the lid then back down to serving pressure and leave it there. Patience is a virtue, especially in homebrewing.

 

[alaskantuff]

Also, when you open your tap, open it all the way if you are dealing with too much foam. A chilled glass seemed to help too. But experience is the biggest key, trial and error! 😊

 

[Yooper]

Five feet of line at 49 degrees and 13 psi is just not enough resistance for that relatively warm beer and high pressure. Generally, 1 foot of line per psi on the regulator, particularly at warmer temperatures, will give more resistance and a better pour. I'm pretty sure that is the only problem here- the serving line is WAY too short to balance the carb level and temperature. It doesn't sound overcarbed.

 

[NickL]

I'm starting to think you guys might be right about the line length which is probably exacerbated by the warm temp. (my kegerator only goes down to 49f, its old and crappy but I prefer my beer a bit warmer anyways)

Also if it was over carbed wouldn't it at least be a little carbonated after the foam cleared? This is dead still

 

[day_trippr]

A bad pour usually includes a cascade effect where the bubbles cause more bubbles.

Your serving temperature actually isn't important. What's important is providing enough resistance to match the dispensing pressure - which should be exactly the pressure that maintains the desired carbonation level.

Pick the pressure from the chart. Hint: "normal" carbonation level is around 2.5 volumes. That pressure will achieve and maintain your desired carbonation level, so you want to set up your system to be able to dispense at that same pressure.

Use that pressure in this line length calculator, along with the other pertinent metrics. That will tell you how long your beer line(s) need to be to manage the psi determined above.

All that is how you balance a system and obtain beer dispensing nirvana...

Cheers!

 

[Yooper]

..................Your serving temperature actually isn't important.

Ah, but see- it is. Warm beer foams like a son of a gun. Icy cold beer doesn't, and 'holds' the carbonation better so sometimes people can get away with shorter lines as a result. But with serving beer on the warm side, it's imperative to have enough restriction (ie longer line length) to prevent the c02 from breaking out of solution too soon and foam in the glass.

Line length calculators just don't really 'translate' to homebrew systems.

If you triple the length of the 5' lines, the worst that can happen is it takes two seconds longer to pour a pint. It's definitely worth a try- as it will fix the problem without any problem.

 

[NickL]

A bad pour usually includes a cascade effect where the bubbles cause more bubbles.

Your serving temperature actually isn't important. What's important is providing enough resistance to match the dispensing pressure - which should be exactly the pressure that maintains the desired carbonation level.

Pick the pressure from the chart. Hint: "normal" carbonation level is around 2.5 volumes. That pressure will achieve and maintain your desired carbonation level, so you want to set up your system to be able to dispense at that same pressure.

Use that pressure in this line length calculator, along with the other pertinent metrics. That will tell you how long your beer line(s) need to be to manage the psi determined above.

All that is how you balance a system and obtain beer dispensing nirvana...

Cheers!

YES! Math!
That calculator is killer.

To test it I fiddled with the inputs and found out what would be the serving pressure for my current line length. It spit out 5psi. So I tried it. Perfect pour!

Looks like I need to get longer lines.

 

[ajdelange]

I have been checking the carb level by filling a zip lock bag that I've sucked the air out of. Putting the end of the tap in there and pouring in some beer. Being careful not to let any air get in. Then sealing, shaking, and letting it warm up. Then I just eyeball and estimate the gas level. I know its crude but works pretty well.

Very clever! Suggestion: Fill a pitcher to the brim. Push the baggie of gas/beer into the pitcher until it is totally submerged. Remove the baggie and add water until pitcher is again full to the brim. The volume of the water it took to refill is the volume of the contents of the baggie. Pour out and measure the volume of the beer. Subtract this from the volume of the baggie. What's left is the volume of the gas.

Much cheaper than a Zahm and Nagle kit.

 

[NickL]

Very clever! Suggestion: Fill a pitcher to the brim. Push the baggie of gas/beer into the pitcher until it is totally submerged. Remove the baggie and add water until pitcher is again full to the brim. The volume of the water it took to refill is the volume of the contents of the baggie. Pour out and measure the volume of the beer. Subtract this from the volume of the baggie. What's left is the volume of the gas.

Much cheaper than a Zahm and Nagle kit.

Science!

I like it!

 

[day_trippr]

YES! Math!
That calculator is killer.

To test it I fiddled with the inputs and found out what would be the serving pressure for my current line length. It spit out 5psi. So I tried it. Perfect pour!

Looks like I need to get longer lines.

That was stipulated

fwiw, the only beer line length calculator worth using - referenced in my earlier post - does not even include a variable for temperature.

There's a solid reason for that...

Cheers!

 

[NickL]

Replaced my lines with new 11 foot lines. Perfect pour! Thanks guys!

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