Can't hit Tripel gravity

[Yourrealdad]

I brewed up a tripel for the second time and my FG was supposed to be 1.012 and I hit 1.019.

OG was 1.090. Which is where Beersmith put it, however the recipe said that OG would be 1.081. I don't know why those two are so off? (This includes the cane sugar)

I mashed around 147/8 and pitched a starter based off of YeastCalc.

Everything went fine as far as pitching and takeoff of fermentation.

I put in 2.5# of cane sugar at the second full day of fermentation so the yeast would be going through the more complex sugars first and not get lazy.

Where can I improve my technique or try to change things so I hit my FG gravity on this next time?

FWIW I have been hitting my gravity on most brews besides this one.

Thanks

 

[LLBeanJ]

How are you oxygenating? My experience with big Belgian brews is that they need a good dose of pure O2 when you pitch your yeast.

How long has it been fermenting? It could take 3-4 weeks to completely finish.

 

[didinho]

wich kind of yeast are you using?

 

[beergolf]

I a going to ask the same question as LLbeanJ.

How long has it been fermenting? Some Belgian yeasts are famous for atarting off fast and then taking forever to finish up.

"Let the ferntation finish, perhaps at a higher temperature. It may take as long to get the last few points of attenuation as it did for the first 80%."

This is a quote from Brew Like a Monk, and I find it to be very true. What yeast was it? If you can get the temperature up and give it some more time and it will probably tick off a few more points.

 

[W0rthog]

What yeast did you use? You got about 77.4% attenuation.

Did you liquify the cane sugar before adding to the fermentor?

 

[Yourrealdad]

I oxygenate for about 15-20 secs on my beer.

I used Wyeast Trappist High Gravity #3787

Yes I liquified the sugar

It sat in the primary for 36 days with the temperature being increased a degree a day for the first week until I held it at 80F for the remainder.

I then lagered it at 47F for 3 1/2 weeks

I know it is my bad, but I am not huge on checking the FG to see if it is changing, because I don't like the idea of exposing it to oxygen and possible infection, but maybe it wasn't done fermenting.

 

[beergolf]

I oxygenate for about 15-20 secs on my beer.

I used Wyeast Trappist High Gravity #3787

Yes I liquified the sugar

It sat in the primary for 36 days with the temperature being increased a degree a day for the first week until I held it at 80F for the remainder.

I then lagered it at 47F for 3 1/2 weeks

I know it is my bad, but I am not huge on checking the FG to see if it is changing, because I don't like the idea of exposing it to oxygen and possible infection, but maybe it wasn't done fermenting.

OK I see the problem. First 3787 is the most notorious for taking a long time to finish. At 36 days it probably was not done. Especially for a 1.090 brew. This yeast always amazes me just how long it takes to get to the finish line. Also expecting 1.012 might be a little ambitious.

Second as soon as you lagered it, the yeast will never take off again. From Chris White

Chris White of White Labs yeast, says of Belgian yeasts.

"When you cool them, they stop. They go into survival mode. You can try rousing them, raising the temperature, but they won't start again. You just have to add new yeast."

 

[D-Train]

I've been discovering just how much of an effect the mash out plays on my system. I don't have an easy way to boil the runnings, so I don't heat collected wort until I have full boil volume. My last brew was a pale ale supposed to be 1.055->1.014. I skipped mash out and was slightly more efficient than planned. OG was 1.057 but FG was 1.009 for 83.5% attenuation on a strain (1098) that's supposed to be 73-75%. ABV was 6.3% instead of my intended 5.3%. Sacc rest was 153 and yes I do use a calibrated thermometer.

Long story short, your sacc rest temp and grain bill are important in fermentability, but don't discount the mash out and its effect.

 

[Yourrealdad]

Yeah I am aware that when I lager it it is done cause I figured that after 36 days it would be ready. Was not aware that the Wyeast 3787 took so long. If this happens again can I add some new 3787 or champagne yeast to finish it up next time?

Also the first time I made this recipe I used WLP530 Abbey Ale and it finished down at 1.010 just fine.

Seems like maybe I will stick with the White Labs on this one.

 

[didinho]

I used Wyeast Trappist High Gravity #3787

last time I used it, I had to add after 4 weeks a pack of US-05 to finish fermentation. but then the yeast went on fermenting in bottles, and after 4-5 months the bottles were badly overcarbonated.
since then, I started to use Lallemand Belle saison for triple, Saisons and dry belgian ales: rapid, quick and no surprises after bottling

 

[Imperator85]

I oxygenate for about 15-20 secs on my beer.

How are you oxygenating? I'm a fairly firm believer that oxygenation is critical for high gravity beers reaching full attenuation. Even with pure O2, 15-20 seconds would not be long enough to reach the oxygen levels you'd ideally want for a beer of this SG.

I know it is my bad, but I am not huge on checking the FG to see if it is changing, because I don't like the idea of exposing it to oxygen and possible infection, but maybe it wasn't done fermenting.

Don't let fears of oxidation or infection prevent you from checking the FG. As long as you're sanitary and not improperly handling the beer, you should be fine...particularly with a high alcohol beer such as a Tripel.

 

[blizz81]

How are you oxygenating? I'm a fairly firm believer that oxygenation is critical for high gravity beers reaching full attenuation. Even with pure O2, 15-20 seconds would not be long enough to reach the oxygen levels you'd ideally want for a beer of this SG.

I think some yeast probably want more O2 than others...and obviously there's other variables like pitch rate / count, temp, fermentables, etc. Though it seems like OP had the right ideas. It does seem with just a cursory search on 3787 that it has taken a lot of time to finish low for folks.


I've had 3 or 4 8%+ abv belgians / saisons that I've tried to get dry and finished lower than 1.010 in a reasonable amount of time, and all were aerated with a drill + paint stirrer, just anecdotal experience.

 

[Yourrealdad]

I oxygenate by blowing into the carboy with my mouth. J/K

I have a small tank of pure oxygen and a diffusing rod/wand/stone or whatever it is called.

Is there a reference to how much oxygen to put in and more importantly how to know how much you are putting in? I don't have any sort of gauge and I feel like when I was reading about it, most people said anywhere from 10-30 seconds was good. Seems like O2 is a pretty variable ingredient?

 

[olotti]

I oxygenate by blowing into the carboy with my mouth. J/K

I have a small tank of pure oxygen and a diffusing rod/wand/stone or whatever it is called.

Is there a reference to how much oxygen to put in and more importantly how to know how much you are putting in? I don't have any sort of gauge and I feel like when I was reading about it, most people said anywhere from 10-30 seconds was good. Seems like O2 is a pretty variable ingredient?

I use the same setup to oxygenate and on a typical pale ale or ipa I oxygenate for 90sec pitch then oxygenate again for another 60 sec. U want from what I understand small rolling bubbles in the wort but not opening the tank wide open. In my ris og was 1.108 I aerated for 90 sec pitched and aerated again for 90 sec so maybe lack of O2 was a factor those big beers need that O2 to feed the hopefully really large starter u pitched. Plus like others have said that combined with the yeast could have slowed it from hitting fg in what you thought would've been an appropriate time. I waited 4 weeks for my stout before transferring to secondary and always check ur gravity twice just sanitize well and you'll b fine no worries.

 

[LLBeanJ]

60 seconds of pure O2 is my go-to for pretty much all my brews. For a big brew like your tripel, 90 seconds would be appropriate.

 

[W0rthog]

At a calculated 77.4% attenuation, I'd say you got what you could from this yeast. Max attenuation being 78%. Also, according to the guidelines, 80 degrees may be a little to warm for that yeast.

My advice is to try and hit your target OG by diluting in order bring it down, therefore you should be able to hit a lower FG.

Trappist High Gravity
Lab: Wyeast Labs
Product ID: 3787
Type: Wheat
Form: Liquid
Flocculation: Medium
Cells per Pack: 100.0 Billion
Min Attenuation: 74.0%
Max Attenuation: 78.0%
Min Temperature: 64.0 F
Max Temperature: 78.0 F

 

[W0rthog]

As for oxygen, i hit all my beers with a 5 min dose of pure oxygen using a .5 or .2 stone (can't remember the size)

 

[Yourrealdad]

Thanks for all the input. I think next time I will go with the Whitelabs yeast, more O2, and make sure the OG is a little closer.

 

[Imperator85]

One thing to note about reported attenuation percentages...they tend to be conservative and probably determined using all-mart fermentations. It's not uncommon for people to report attenuation values well into the 80's when they have added simple sugars to the wort. 3787 does seem to be one of the more finicky Belgian strains, and its certainly possible it requires more attention at the beginning in order to get the most out of it compared to others.

As for oxygenating a high gravity beer (>1.080-ish in my book), I bubble O2 for 90 seconds before pitching the yeast. After 12-18 hours or so (or whenever your yeast have completed one generation), I will repeat the oxygenation again. This is advocated in Chris White's and Jamil Zainasheff's 'Yeast' book to help further attenuate the beer. That book also has a table or two regarding oxygen levels at different times and methods of oxygenating.