Cancer-Free Hose Fittings

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

maztec

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
418
Reaction score
5
SWMBO was not at all happy when my hose fittings (male/female) for my faucet->kettle showed up and had a little piece of paper with them that said, "WARNING: According to the State of California the chemicals in this fitting cause cancer and birth defects."

So, anybody know where I can get a fitting that won't cause those things? :\
 
SWMBO was not at all happy when my hose fittings (male/female) for my faucet->kettle showed up and had a little piece of paper with them that said, "WARNING: According to the State of California the chemicals in this fitting cause cancer and birth defects."

So, anybody know where I can get a fitting that won't cause those things? :\

This is the fault of the liberals in the People's Republik of Kalifornia. For some reason, they think that they need billions upon billions of laws foisted upon residents, visitors, businesses, etc. in order to save them from themselves. I shiver to think of the cost of the enforcement of this nonsense.

Anyway, it's just alarmist nonsense. You can live happy as a clam by ignoring it completely.
 
This is the fault of the liberals in the People's Republik of Kalifornia. For some reason, they think that they need billions upon billions of laws foisted upon residents, visitors, businesses, etc. in order to save them from themselves. I shiver to think of the cost of the enforcement of this nonsense.

Anyway, it's just alarmist nonsense. You can live happy as a clam by ignoring it completely.

I realize that. However, SWMBO = SWWAB, which means anything that puts the chance that my little tadpoles won't swim right = no go. :drunk:

Thus, any way around this is awesome.

I'm actively trying to hide the recent reports on SS causing bad things from her :\.
 
What you're seeing there is California taking an active stance against lead in consumer products. Read up on CA AB 1953 for details. In brief, the old law stated that plumbing fixtures could contain up to 4% lead in "wetted" (in contact with water) parts and still be called "lead free". AB 1953 changed this to define "lead free" plumbing fixtures to be those containing less than 0.25% lead. The new law also states that all new work for water systems where the water is for drinking purposes must use "lead free" components.

Vermont has passed a similar law. Overall, I think that this is a good thing. CA has a long history of leading the way in the US for environmental policy in general. I wouldn't be surprised to see such limits go into effect in the rest of the US someday.

In my area (Tucson) it's not too difficult to find plumbing fixtures that meet the CA requirement. My local Lowes sells them (the handle will say something like "Meets CA AB 1953" on it, though I don't remember the exact wording). A quick search for "lead free ball valve" in google will lead you to many online dealers of such parts.
 
I realize that. However, SWMBO = SWWAB, which means anything that puts the chance that my little tadpoles won't swim right = no go. :drunk:

Thus, any way around this is awesome.

I'm actively trying to hide the recent reports on SS causing bad things from her :\.


Might as well sell off all your brew stuff right now then. It's only a matter of time before she starts in on alcohol reducing sperm count. Save yourself the heartache and make a clean break. I'm sure there's many a willing buyer at fire sale prices around these parts. :drunk:
 
Since you don't live in California, then they dont cause cancer in your state, right? ;)
 
My lawn mower has a sticker on it that says its not for sale in Calfornia but Ill bet ten dollars it still does the same job as the same model that they do sell in Cali.

If its a brass fitting then do the de-leading procedure. Search google or here and youll find it. Ill bet most of the brass fittings under your sink contain more lead than those two little fittings combined. If SWMBO is really that concerened youll need to go through the whole house and replace those fittings too........


Otherwise you can use stainless fittings.
 
I realize that. However, SWMBO = SWWAB, which means anything that puts the chance that my little tadpoles won't swim right = no go. :drunk:

Thus, any way around this is awesome.

I'm actively trying to hide the recent reports on SS causing bad things from her :\.

If you move from California this will no longer be a problem. There is nothing you can order that won't have those warnings if you live in California.

Like I said according to Cali everything causes Cancer. So unless you move, you will get this on ever thing you buy.

Go to the grocery store and see if you can find 10 items that won't cause cancer according to the state you live in.
 
This is a hose going from your water faucet to your kettle, for filling it with water?

All you should need is a stainless faucet adapter and a drinking water/RV hose which has stainless fittings. Now if you need quick disconnects and you can't use brass, things get a little more expensive.
 
When we lived there this always made me snicker.

It just sort of struck me as:
Our state is better than your state, because California knows that this item contains hazardous materials and your state doesn't. Na, Na, Nah, Na, Na. :p
 
BTW, MTBE ALSO causes cancer as determined by the state of California. MTBE is also REQUIRED to be added to gasoline by.... the state of California..... Now they're going to legalize pot, seems like it's good they're finally going to be honest about what their elected officials and civil servants have been smoking for years.
 
BTW, MTBE ALSO causes cancer as determined by the state of California. MTBE is also REQUIRED to be added to gasoline by.... the state of California..... Now they're going to legalize pot, seems like it's good they're finally going to be honest about what their elected officials and civil servants have been smoking for years.

Nobody drinks gasoline.
 
Lived in California for many years and you will find (discrete) signs even on restaurant entrances that the building contains "CHEMICALS KNOWN TO THE STATE TO CAUSE CANCER OR REPRODUCTIVE TOXICITY".
The most recent list (updated 26-Mar-2010) contains:
"Alcoholic beverages, when associated with alcohol abuse" (cancer)​
"Ethyl alcohol in alcoholic beverages" (developmental toxicity)​
as well as things like nicotine, marijuana smoke and wood dust.
 
I am surprised to read all the anti-safety, anti-California rhetoric here. CA has a long history of environmental protections that have later been implemented nationally. When was the last time you could purchase leaded gasoline? Lead in gasoline directly resulted in lead in air and soil. In 1976 CA began limiting lead in automotive gasoline and the country followed suit with a total ban effective in '95.

Catalytic converters were first required in CA. Smog controls on factories were first introduced in CA. I could go on.

Another thing: the state of California hasn't determined what does and doesn't cause cancer and reproductive harm. Scientific research has proven the damage lead and other heavy metals cause. California has acted upon scientific fact in requiring this labeling.

Lead and other heavy metals cause brain damage and reproductive harm. This is inarguable. The original poster's wife trying to limit further exposure for herself and her family to lead is not unreasonable.

My lawn mower has a sticker on it that says its not for sale in Calfornia but Ill bet ten dollars it still does the same job as the same model that they do sell in Cali.

Yes, clearly, two lawnmowers do the same job just as well no matter whether they are legal for sale in CA or not. Small two stroke engines are incredibly polluting compared to automotive engines though and there's no reason for them to remain so. CA law requires that all small gasoline fueled equipment must be equipped with catalytic converters and leak proof fuel components. We will definitely see this be mandated nationally at some point. Your lawn mower does the same job but at a greater environmental cost. You paid a small amount less (40 bucks or so) than it would have cost had it been CA-emissions equipped. Is 40 bucks too much to pay for clean air?

If SWMBO is really that concerened youll need to go through the whole house and replace those fittings too........

It's true that people can get overly uptight about these things. Replacing all of the plumbing in one's house just isn't economically feasible for most of us. What is feasible is to require that all new construction be completed with lead free parts (which is what the CA law accomplishes). For those of us living in older houses there are two easy rules to limit one's exposure to lead from one's plumbing. These are: 1) Don't cook with or drink from your home's hot water supply; and, 2) If water has sat static in the pipes for some time (measured in days or weeks) then allow it to run for a while before drinking/cooking with it in order to flush out all that water that's been soaking up whatever is in your pipes.

Solution: Move.

As far as I have looked there is no correlation between geographic location and lead poisoning. Leaded gas is bad for you no matter where you are. Lead in your environment is bad for you whether you're in Oklahoma, California, Arizona, or anywhere else for that matter.

It is a simple thing for the original poster to purchase parts that will allay his wife's concerns. Environmental protection is about protecting people; why is there such vitriol towards it here?
 
No vitriol against environmental protection.

Tons of it against California.

Face it, anything done in mass quantity is going to impact the balance of something on this earth. You wanna save the earth? Then stop global developement! because the more this globe "develops" the more natural ecosystem disappear that work to combat our impact.
 
+1 on either de-leading with peroxide and vinegar or ordering a new one and saying its all fixed.

FWIW, I remember a discussion on one of the brewing network podcasts about brass fittings. They talked about how the percent of lead (i.e. 4% or .25%) is a percent of the entire weight, not just the surface area that the liquid is contacting. Not to mention that yeast takes most heavy metals out of solution during fermentation. So even IF some got into your beer, the amount you consume wouldn't throw you over the amount we're already exposed to everyday...

It's just a lot of fear mongering for uneducated consumers.
 
+1 on either de-leading with peroxide and vinegar or ordering a new one and saying its all fixed.

FWIW, I remember a discussion on one of the brewing network podcasts about brass fittings. They talked about how the percent of lead (i.e. 4% or .25%) is a percent of the entire weight, not just the surface area that the liquid is contacting. Not to mention that yeast takes most heavy metals out of solution during fermentation. So even IF some got into your beer, the amount you consume wouldn't throw you over the amount we're already exposed to everyday...

It's just a lot of fear mongering for uneducated consumers.

I know I need to do the pickling things myself as I have a bunch of brass QDs coming from McMaster right now. Can someone explain the exact process?
 
Environmental protection is about protecting people; why is there such vitriol towards it here?

I think you are referring to consumer product safety legislation. In theory, that's supposed to be about protecting people. I'm not sure all environmental protection is aimed at protecting people. There are quite a few people around here working under the umbrella of environmental protection who it seems would just as soon worry about the survival of the spotted wood frog as the survival of people.

For the OP, there are probably safer fittings out there. Go ahead and research it. It's your call, if that's something that's important to you. I would try to look into exactly why the state is telling you a product is potentially harmful. Sometimes the data those warnings are based on seems sort of ludicrous when placed under any real scrutiny. Sort of similar to the consumer product safety issue, because a handful of people weren't bright enough to understand that using the hair dryer while in the bathtub was not a good idea, there's a warning on there for everyone, just in case.
 
Everyone - give the guy a break for trying to do the right thing. California may have lower percentages for chemicals than the feds, but they probably save a few more kid's lives from cancer in the balance. They do seem to often write the laws poorly, however.

In Oregon, where they are enviro-concious but a bit more pragmatic than Cali on these things, I visited a college that was replacing some older brass faucets with new for preventitive enviro reasons. But it was a small percentage of the faucets. These were only locations where they weren't used much, sat for long periods, and the water was somewhat acidic. The logic made sense. Moving, cold and non-acidic water is not going to put very many ppm into the water. OTOH, acidic water working on lead-filled brass for years will probably go over EPA maximum ppms.

To the original poster -- you gotta put it into perspective. Is it in an area where:
1. Liquid sits in it for long periods of time?
2. The liquid is hot?
3. The liquid is acidic?

If the answer is yes to all, then I'd think about replacing, if you want to "reduce" your levels. And put it into perspective. We are all exposed to some chemicals, as others point out, but it's all a matter of risk. 1 in 100,000? 1 in 1,000,000? 1 in 10,000,000? 1 in 100,000,000? Walking outside has a risk; drinking is a bigger risk. My estimation is that for your application, it's way below what you need to be concerned about....
 
To the original poster -- you gotta put it into perspective.

I would contend that this little piece of advice is not only excellent, but also needs to be employed by both consumers and lawmakers. It probably also needs to be applied more broadly by the general populace prior to making any hasty decisions or forming any major opinions about the current situation.

Words to live by, sir! :mug:
 
I spend far too much time with the law every day, but intentionally avoid environmental law, it just induces paranoia.

That said, I have to respect SWMBO, as lately she is "she who wants to be pregnant".

And she already tried the, "No alcohol while trying to get pregnant!" I put my foot down, this is the compromise.

Oh, and, I'm not in California. :\ And the fittings at Lowes have even scarier warning labels!
 
if she is worried use stainless .

even the American cancer society says the link between cancer and lead is weak at best

"Does Lead Cause Cancer?

There is some evidence showing that lead may cause cancer, but this evidence is weak. Still, lead has been loosely linked with cancers of the lung and stomach, and more weakly linked to brain and kidney cancers."

I think you would be more apt to come into a more significant amount of lead by doing gardening. Just think of the millions of pounds that was used in gasoline . It all settles to the ground and in dust and if you live in a pre 1978 home most of the paint would have lead and the plumbing too.

Just think of all the old lines in cities that are made from lead or have lead solder . my house has oakum in the waste pipes that is covered with lead, how much gets into the ground water ?
 
My semen causes birth defects when I am in California. You two better do your business across the border ;)

Get some stainless tri-clamps from Derrin (brewershardware.com), or just pickle your brass ones ala John Palmer's "How to Brew".
 
For brass fittings, the lead is there to enhance machineability and workability. The end process puts a lead film on the outside which is very very thin. Water doesn't do much to this film, but acidic liquids tend to dissolve the lead - like beer wort. The good news is that after the first few batches, the fitting will have effectively de-leaded itself. I am a fan of the "pickling" process described by Palmer - mostly because it makes the fittings really bright and shiny in addition to removing the surface lead. Lead is not so much cancer causing as it is poisonous. However, I am supremely confident that you would die of cirrhosis of the liver before you drank enough of your homebrew to die of lead induced cancer or lead poisoning from a brass fitting.

40,000 people a year die in traffic accidents. I don't see California in a rush to ban the wheel - maybe they should. It would probably save more people than banning brass fittings.
 
I'm with the OP in wanting to find the safest way to proceed; the rhetoric about CA and its regulations, which are not always to be taken as gospel, is well taken, but lead exposure can reduce sperm count, sperm motility, and lead to abnormal sperm in men, and lead to miscarriages in women (I don't know if this refers to pre-pregnancy exposure or not). So it's up to the individual to decide how much to worry about it, but when it comes to conceiving a healthy child, I gotta think that doing a little reading on the topic is not out of line. There are few more important things to worry about, and you'd hate to spend time later wondering if buying a different fitting would have made a big difference, so you do everything you can with what you know now.

It's just a bit disappointing, even on a homebrew forum where we tend to be cynical of government anyway, to see a valid concern like this dismissed so mockingly. Thanks, though, to those who have shared some helpful info- I've learned quite a bit from it.
 
It's just a bit disappointing, even on a homebrew forum where we tend to be cynical of government anyway, to see a valid concern like this dismissed so mockingly. Thanks, though, to those who have shared some helpful info- I've learned quite a bit from it.

At least I didn't ask about hosing. I've hidden it from SWMBO, but garden hoses and vinyl hoses are no longer rated as being for use with potable water :\. Partially due to the fittings, and partially because both dissolve in the water. Alternatively, may be able to blame China for making these things out of cheaper materials.

But, sure, what flexible hosing would people recommend :p.
 
***********1. Enforce rules only against their foes (i.e., anyone who does not suck up to them) while exempting their friends from similar or worse behavior.

2. Silently boot someone and then proceed to trash talk the person as if the person was still there with an opportunity to respond.

3. Boot someone and then start a thread for the sole purpose of boasting about having removed the person, so as to bask in the praise of sychophantic members applauding the moderator's bold action.

4. If a person is being stalked or trolled, scold, warn and threaten both the victim and the perpetrator to stop it. If the victim protests, boot the victim for having defied the moderator's authority. Add injury to insult by allowing the troll or stalker to stay because the stalker or troll didn't talk back to the moderator.

5. If the moderator loses an argument to another member, selectively delete the member's comments so that the thread no longer makes any sense.

6. Selectively enforce the tribe's rules only against newcomers, newbies or people who are not friend with the moderator.

7. Speak about their actions as moderator in the passive voice, use the royal we, and otherwise take on a haughty, authoritarian tone. I mean, dude, you're just a moderator. ***************
 
Back
Top