Can I Pitch 2 Times? @ 2nd Fermentation

[Zargon]

(New to this Forum) ;-D

Thanks for all your responses to my query now....

Let me Clarify a bit..
I didn't boil the grains... just let them steep whilst brining the initial portion of water to a boil.. let them boil for a few minutes to garner all the goodness out the grains... hate to just steep and then throw them away!!!
After the bag of grain was removed then I added the Extract and two rather than one bag of dry malt. One dark and one light -- 10oz each I think. Then I boiled the "Wort" for the recommended time... cooled it with my DIY-Copper Coil -- down to a tepid temperature -- Transferred the wort to a "wide mouth bubbler" with a 2 hole lid and added a volume of "good water" to bring the total volume up to 5 gallons and cool down to "Pitching" temp -- which turned out to be 72º F.
Previous to pitching.. I did mix the dry yeast with a can of Fast Pitch® instant yeast starter in a sterile -- sanitized flask with a sanitized foam cork and put it on the stir plate for an hour or so while the wort was cooking.
I pitched the yeast with this solution @ 72º and measured a Specific Gravity of approximately 63.
I'll be going up to the fermentation closet -- in an actual closet in the (apartment / office space / Brew Kitchen ) over my garage.


I added a lot of extra grains & malt during the boil of a Irish Stout Xtract Kit and added the dry yeast at the proper time and temp.. but not sure it was enough. Can I pitch a 2nd time, it's been about 2 weeks and the bubbling is pretty much stopped. After reading much about yeast volumes and all it seems the small packet of dry might not have been enough initially.

I have you Y-yeast smack packs in the fridge (yes they are very new). I was thinking of smacking a pack and letting it propagate a couple dayze on my DIY stir-plate with some of that Fast Pitch® is an instant yeast starter, I got from Northern Brewing.

I've made many batches... but so infrequently I still feel like a beginner most of the time.

please HeALp Me -- Oh Bee Quan! You are my only Hope!!!
(Yes a deliberate quote-of sorts- from StarWars)

TIA - everyone!

 

[BargainFittings]

Most likely it is done fermenting.

Do you have a hydrometer? Take a reading if you do. If not, then go by taste and if it tastes finished (not too sweet) and you have no signs of fermentation for several days then you are ready to package your beer.

 

[jddevinn]

You added grains to the boil?

Most likely you are done fermenting. Underpitching normally causes "mild" off flavors, not incomplete fermentations.

 

[Kent88]

If a hydrometer reading is showing that gravity is both high and stable then you'll need a yeast strain that can handle high-gravity beers, maybe even a champaign yeast. And you have the right idea, using a smack pack and making a starter. The environment in that fermented beer is not great for growing more yeast, you'll want to make sure you're adding active cells.

Do you go through a process to determine the number of cells you should pitch, and then make sure that you grow that number? How well do you aerate? If the pre-fermentation gravity is over 1.106 (which it might be if you just started adding goofy amounts of extract during the boil) you should probably use pure oxygen to aerate and ferment at the upper threshold of the yeasts preferred temperature range. I did see a video where a guy made something stronger than a 12% beer by staggering aeration, yeast additions, and maybe even nutrients, over the first few days like meadmakers do. It supposedly turned out ok.

 

[flars]

The title of your post seems like you are asking if more yeast can be added in a secondary fermentor/vessel. You can add more yeast to the secondary vessel if you think the beer has not fully attenuated with the first pitching of yeast.

Specific gravity measurements are the only way to know if the beer is fully fermented though. A high specific gravity of about 1.018 and above may mean the beer has not finished or a English style yeast like Windsor Ale was initially used. English yeasts will finish fermenting at a high SG. You would need to pitch a yeast that attenuates more than the original yeast.

Liquid yeasts require aeration of the wort to work. A partially fermented beer cannot be aerated. Aeration would oxidize the beer. You can pitch a rehydrated pack of dry yeast without aeration. US-05 is a neutral yeast with a better attenuation than the English yeasts.

Check the specific gravity with a hydrometer before you go ahead with any fix for your brew. What was your original gravity and the yeast initially pitched. What was the temperature of your fermenting wort?

 

[Zargon]

No I didn't actually add grains "to the boil" .. I added extra grains, more than the recipe called for, before the boil.. please see my clarifying edit to my original post. ;-) Thanks

 

[GPP33]

What makes you think it needs more yeast? It should be done in two weeks, if all goes well it'll actually be done much sooner than that. Can't think of a beer I've brewed that has taken more than about 4 days to stop bubbling. I'd bet it's fine, you measured the OG, what's the FG and what was your target? I had a hard time following what you did with the grains but if you got them too warm then you may have unfermemtable sugars in there that'll raise the FG.

 

[Zargon]

OKay! UpDate...

Just took a SG reading... not too impressive... only about 22+ —@71º f , a hair, looking like only 3% :-( @ Was hoping for more like 5-9.Hence why I wanted some experienced opinions about pitching in the secondary. Sugar seems to be pretty high.. so I'm thinking -- WTF -- think I'll just go ahead and smack that pack and slip it in tomorrow.

Having said all that: I DID taste the wonderful wort and it is as I like it, very hoppy and not too sweet tasting, on first sip. But after that you can taste the overabundance of sugar. No worries there, if you like sweet crap...and I don't... but, also being type 2, you know what that means, I can handle the alcohol better than the sugar. :-(

Well... any additional comments/advice would be great.

TIA

Your fellow BrewNut in Decatur, GA

 

[flars]

The yeast will have a better chance of dropping the gravity if you make a small starter with the smack pack. Pitch the starter at high krausen. The alcohol present in the beer will limit new yeast cell production.

 

[GPP33]

You may want to look into use something like a pacman or champaign yeast, they work better for you. I'll say it again, if you mashed too warm you may have a bunch of unfermemtable sugars, even 10 degrees will make the difference you are seeing.

 

[chickypad]

So it sounds like we have no idea what your original recipe is, you just threw in some bags of malt of undetermined weight? By 63 do you mean your OG was 1.063? I might question that due to notorious mixing issues using extract, but lets say that is correct and your FG is 1.022, that would be an ABV of about 5.4%. It sounds like this wasn't a mash so temp isn't really that important but if you did have a lot of dark extract and steeping grains I agree it probably has a lot of unfermentable sugars and is done. Champagne yeast is not going to help you with unfermentable sugars. You're also probably wasting your smack pack throwing it in now. If those are your numbers I'd probably recheck in a couple days then package if stable.

 

[jddevinn]

(New to this Forum) ;-D

I didn't boil the grains... just let them steep whilst brining the initial portion of water to a boil.. let them boil for a few minutes to garner all the goodness out the grains... hate to just steep and then throw them away!!!

After the bag of grain was removed then I added the Extract and two rather than one bag of dry malt.

One dark and one light -- 10oz each I think.

Transferred the wort to a "wide mouth bubbler" with a 2 hole lid and added a volume of "good water" to bring the total volume up to 5 gallons

Previous to pitching.. I did mix the dry yeast with a can of Fast Pitch® instant yeast starter in a sterile

I pitched the yeast with this solution @ 72º and measured a Specific Gravity of approximately 63.

OKay! UpDate...

Just took a SG reading... not too impressive... only about 22+ —@71º f , a hair, looking like only 3% :-( @ Was hoping for more like 5-9.

Hence why I wanted some experienced opinions about pitching in the secondary. Sugar seems to be pretty high.. so I'm thinking -- WTF -- think I'll just go ahead and smack that pack and slip it in tomorrow.

Having said all that: I DID taste the wonderful wort and it is as I like it, very hoppy and not too sweet tasting, on first sip. But after that you can taste the overabundance of sugar.

OK Zargon, a few comments:

1. I would HIGHLY suggest taking "extensive" notes. You should know exactly what you put in the beer and what the expected OG is.
   
   
2. It sounds like you simply put grains in the water, brought the water to boil then let the grains sit for a couple minutes. I'm not sure what the "goodness" is. Note that mashing temperature ranges are chosen for different styles and beers because they produce different affects. This is a very in depth subject but without getting too technical
   a)<149°F starch hydrolysis
   b)~113-122°F breakdown of proteins and B-glucans in undermodified malts.
   c)~145-155°F general range for mashing, starch conversion and production of FERMENTABLE sugars
   d)>168°F mash out, enzymes will stop converting complex sugars and starches to fermentable sugars
   
   By "rapidly" moving through these temperatures and above 168°F the "goodness" you extracted from the grains is likely all taste and UNFERMENTABLE sugars, leaving the beer sweeter than expected (for the original recipe) and not contributing to the amount of fermentable sugar.
   
   
3. Yeast should be added at the proper pitch rate (0.75 - 1 million cells per ml x °P for ales, 1.5 for lagers). Dry yeast should only be rehydrated not grown on a starter*. Liquid yeast has many fewer cells per container and may require a starter (or multiple packs) to reach the pitch rate.
   
   **Dry yeast is typically packed at 20 billion cells per gram. A typical packet holds 11.5g or 230 billion cells. This is more than enough for most 5 gallon batches. Additionally a starter inoculation rate should be between 25 and 100 millions/ml would require a minimum 2.5L starter resulting in 585 billion cells.
   
   
4. Yeast don't get "used up" under normal situations. If you did underpitch the yeast would multiply (maybe resulting in off flavors) and then ferment. Typically a "stuck" fermentation is due to an incorrect process or dead/incorrect yeast not an underpitch.
   
   
5. Using top of water is notorious for resulting in stratified wort and an incorrect OG reading. Assuming 1.063 OG and 1.022 gravity are correct you have 65% apparent attenuation and 5.4% abv. Take the reading again in a couple days and see if it is the same.
   

 

[Yooper]

OKay! UpDate...

Just took a SG reading... not too impressive... only about 22+ &#8212;@71º f , a hair, looking like only 3% :-( @ Was hoping for more like 5-9.Hence why I wanted some experienced opinions about pitching in the secondary. Sugar seems to be pretty high.. so I'm thinking -- WTF -- think I'll just go ahead and smack that pack and slip it in tomorrow.

Having said all that: I DID taste the wonderful wort and it is as I like it, very hoppy and not too sweet tasting, on first sip. But after that you can taste the overabundance of sugar. No worries there, if you like sweet crap...and I don't... but, also being type 2, you know what that means, I can handle the alcohol better than the sugar. :-(

Well... any additional comments/advice would be great.

TIA

Your fellow BrewNut in Decatur, GA

I think that your hydrometer reading is incorrect, when you say 3%.

The hydrometer does NOT measure the amount of alcohol in the liquid- it measures the density remaining. So it means that you have read the "potential alcohol scale".

You want the specific gravity number- is that the 22 you are talking about? So that the reading is 1.022?

In order to know the alcohol by volume (ABV), you have to know the number you started with as well and do a short calculation.

Say you started with 6 pounds of dry extract, and no grains. That means you would have a starting SG of 1.050 in a 5 gallon batch. If you're at 1.022 now, you'd have an ABV of 3.7%. If you used grains, those should also give you some fermentable sugars so it's hard to say what you've really got there, but definitely over 4% ABV if you used two large bags of dry extract. Since you said 10 ounces (?), I assume you're doing a small, 1 gallon batch(?) but it's very hard to understand what you mean.

Next time, don't boil the grains or even get them above 170 degrees. Using grains is like making tea- you don't boil it, you steep it to get the color and flavor out of them. Boiling the grains can create off flavors in the finished beer, and once you get the goodness out of them you don't get more out of them and they should be discarded.

In any case, you do NOT need more yeast. Yeast multiply just fine, and if you're at 1.022 using extract and other stuff, it seems to be about finished, not stuck.

The reason it may taste a bit sweet is not that it's not fermented out- it's that if you had more malt randomly, but not more hops to balance it, the resulting beer will be sweet.