Can and kilo recipe - using DME instead of sugar

[edugomsan]

Hi everyone!

I've made several brews now, just with kits, and I read about replacing sugar with DME in some of the one can kits.

So I did Brewferm Triple, and doubled the recipe. Added the 2x1,5Kg cans of hopped LME and 1 Kg of Brewferm extra light DME, instead of the 2x500g of sugar suggested, and topped to 2x9l. I had some trouble dissolving the DME, which means the FV was open for about half an hour while I was stirring, but I finally achieved a wort of 1070 OG, which was the same that would achieve with sugar according to the instructions. Then pitched at 21ºC with the two sachets of rehydrated yeast that came with the packs (no labeling at all on the yeast!). I left the FV in a room at about 23ºC.

I pitched late on Friday night and Saturday in the morning I found massive krausen and very intense bubbling, so fermentation had started pretty fast. Sunday night (about 48h after pitching) it was still bubbling but more slowly. Gravity read 1024.

However, I brew at a house in a small village I visit only on weekends and next Friday, day 7, gravity was still 1024 (and no bubbling). The only noticeable issue was a decrease in the room temperature, from around 23ºC to 19ºC, but it wasn't a sudden drop, it would probably happen along the week. I siphoned to another FV with some yeast from the bottom and could see minor activity in the airlock after that, but gravity was still around 1024 on day 9.

I will visit again this weekend (days 14-16) but my bets are that the gravity will still be around that. I am wondering wether:
(1) Bewferm DME is not as fermentable as sugar, but I couldn't find any information. I've read dark DME don't ferment that much, and that even with a light DME I should expect FG to be higher than with sugar, but 14 points higher??? This, however, would be a relief, since I could go on and bottle and wouldn't make beer bombs, even maybe with too much a malty taste.
(2) Bewferm yeast that comes with the pack has low attenuation. This doesn't seem the case from what I've read from others, and I have also done other Brewferm kits (with plain sugar) and though never reached 1010 I bottled between 1012-1014, never above 1020.
(3) The fermentation got stuck, because of the room temperature going down (this happened to me once, but that time it was really cold, around 12ºC, now it's 19ºC which is a bit cool but close to ideal), or because the yeast was in bad state (though it really boosted from the start) or some contamination...

In the fermentation is stuck, I could re-pitch, but I wonder if I have more to win than loose (besides the fact that I could only supervise the new fermentation for the first two days).

Do you guys know how much the FG should be over that reported by the original recipe, when sugar is replaced by DME.

Thanks!

 

[Kent88]

I'll start by saying that I have no experience with the brands of extract you're referring too. The following is a metaphorical stab in the dark, I'm completely guessing.

1.070 is right about the point where a lot of people start considering it a strong wort. That is a level where some brewers (at least the ones that I've heard from) who normally ignore such things start considering things like yeast cell count, aeration, using yeast nutrients, etc. Re-hydrating yeast was a good move, but a starter might have been a good idea.

This is a Belgian style brew? Some Belgian styles, even when made "all grain", actually include a small but significant amount of sugar, usually something like candi sugar or beet sugar. If the hopped extract was made specifically for this style, they *might* have altered the extract to conform with style and messed with its fermentability. You've used kits from this company before? Did this one call for a different amount of sugar?

I've used no-name-brand yeast with kits before too and made beer that was decent enough that I liked it and kept brewing, but now that I look back at it I wonder how I could use it. If that stuff just came strapped to the kit, unrefrigerated through its time in the warehouse, being shipped to you or the store, and just hung out at room temp until it was time to get used, it may not have been at its best when you went to use it. It could also be a type of strain that is sensitive to temperature changes like that. I've heard (again, just rumors) that some strains, actually Belgian strains, don't like the kind of temperature swings you're describing.

It was a great idea that you switched up sugar for extract, you just picked one of the few styles that actually call for simple sugars.

I've heard that homebrew can actually go for almost a month in primary before it needs to either racked to secondary or bottled, as long as the airlock stays topped-up. You can give it a little more time and see if the gravity drops. 1.024 sounds too high.

 

[edugomsan]

Hi Kent,

Thanks very much for your time. In answer to your questions, this is the manufacturer site for the kit: https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-pr...-beer-kits/d/beer-kit-brewferm-triple-for-9-l

Not a big deal of information there It is belgian style, and I did three kits of this brand before, all of them with plain sugar. Two went just fine (density came down to around 1014) and the other go stuck because of a drastic temperature drop. I reactivated it by heating the room, but I never really liked the taste of that one...

It is true that (according to what I have read after doing the batch) this kit could go very well with just sugar, I should have read that before

In any case, I decided to go on with DME of the same manufacturer because I thought they would fit somehow (I know, a bit naive on my side).

I'll post the result when I decide what to do.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Just a few points. First, as pointed out, Belgians typically call for pure sugar to help them acheive the high attenuation and dryness required of the style. DME is not as fermentable as sugar so that will effect your FG.

Also, with an OG of 1070, you may have underpitched. It depends on the size of the yeast packets that came with the kit. They tend to be smaller than required. A safe bet would be to repitch with a clean yeast like US-05 and give it another week. But with the DME instead of sugar, you may be done. Also, be aware that the temp of your fermenting beer is likely 4-8C higher than the ambient temp and plan accordingly.

Last point, you seem to mention stirring the DME into the cooled wort in your fermenter. For sanitation purposes and better dissolvability, you should always boil DME (or LME or sugar) in some water for a few minutes before adding it to your wort. Ideally, it should be boiled with the wort in your BK before you cool it. To avoid caramelization of the DME, you can just add it for the last 10 or 15 minutes of your boil.

 

[edugomsan]

Thanks BlueHouseBrewhaus!

I didn't actually boil the DME but I did not try to dissolve it in the cooled wort either. I just poured over the about 3l of the warm contents of the cans and 2l of boiled water. As it crystallized, I took the "stones", put them in the cans and dissolved them in more boiling water, then mix everything again and after that chilled the wort with frozen mineral water to a point and then more room temperature mineral water. Not exceptional standards, I assume.

But, concerning boiling the wort, different kit manufacturers give different instructions. While some advise you to boil it for sanitation, others just ask you to water bath the cans and then add a couple of liters of boiling water to aid dissolvability. I must say that the latter is easier to cool down by just adding water, since you start with less quantity of warm liquid at a much lesser temperature.

 

[ncbrewer]

But, concerning boiling the wort, different kit manufacturers give different instructions. While some advise you to boil it for sanitation, others just ask you to water bath the cans and then add a couple of liters of boiling water to aid dissolvability. I must say that the latter is easier to cool down by just adding water, since you start with less quantity of warm liquid at a much lesser temperature.

Pasteurization temperature is around 162F, so there's a big advantage to making sure it's at least that hot. I had an infection once, and it was a really unpleasant experience.

 

[dwhite60]

1.024 with that much malt extract. You're probably done. Using sugar would have taken it lower but you'd have less body and less flavorful beer.

Won't hurt though to give it another week or two. I'll bet it turns out GREAT with the extra extract.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[edugomsan]

Hi all!

Just to keep the info updated, gravity still read 1024 on day 22 after fermentation started, so I decided to go ahead and bottle. I'll report on the beer in a couple of months.

 

[dwhite60]

You're probably fine. It'll turn out great. Maybe not quite as dry as it should be but it will still be great.

All the Best,
D. White