Burnt mead?

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BrewingTravisty

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Ok so I found this video of a guy making burnt mead, from some recipe from the 1500's. I'm curious if anyone has ever made it and what it was like?

You literally burn the honey black and then add water to it, boil it down some and then ferment. It seems really strange to me. Especially since most people I've talked to say not to heat or boil the honey.
 
Sure, lots of people have done it, search for "bochet" ....in this case you're deliberately boiling the honey to caramalize it to however dark you wanna go .....I have a bochet cider aging, needs several more months (after several already)....it's an interesting take on mead
 
Sure, lots of people have done it, search for "bochet" ....in this case you're deliberately boiling the honey to caramalize it to however dark you wanna go .....I have a bochet cider aging, needs several more months (after several already)....it's an interesting take on mead

Ok awesome! Thanks. I'm pretty new to the mead world lol so it wasn't something I heard of before. I'll look that up, it sounds interesting.
 
Its not burnt black, but it is very heavily darkened. You can go lighter, or darker, depending on your taste.

@Conpewter brought some to my cottage a couple of years ago, and while I'm not a huge fan of bochet, many others are and they really enjoyed it.
 
Its not burnt black, but it is very heavily darkened. You can go lighter, or darker, depending on your taste.

@Conpewter brought some to my cottage a couple of years ago, and while I'm not a huge fan of bochet, many others are and they really enjoyed it.

Oh ok, well this video it sounded like was their first time. It looked like they might have over cooked the honey because it was very black. Almost like the oil that comes out of your car haha
 
I have seen that video.

Although I am interested in trying it myself I have not yet been able to bring myself to burn honey like that. Furthermore, I fear getting burned honey stuck to the bottom of the pan.

Before I try making, say, a gallon or more of bochet I'm going to have to get some much bigger pans. That might help in the beer making too as well as the bochet making.
 
I have seen that video.

Although I am interested in trying it myself I have not yet been able to bring myself to burn honey like that. Furthermore, I fear getting burned honey stuck to the bottom of the pan.

Before I try making, say, a gallon or more of bochet I'm going to have to get some much bigger pans. That might help in the beer making too as well as the bochet making.

I wouldn't have to worry on that part since I'm primarily a beer brewer. I just started making mead, because due to an injury making beer is not physically possible right now. And I like mead xD so I have a brew kettle that holds 10 gallons. My big thing is I don't know if I want to spend the money on honey if it turns out I don't like it lol maybe eventually. Or maybe someday I'll meet another mead maker in person who has a bottle to try.
 
I've never tried it myself (and doubt I ever will), but I had one that someone else made. They didn't go NEARLY to the black level though, but like a medium amber (still fairly dark). Some honey varietals (don't remember which, not a meadmaker) give a marshmallow impression. In this particular case, the bochet was super intense toasted marshmallow. A little chocolate and graham cracker and you've got yourself some s'mores. I'd imagine with the right ingredients that could be done as a braggot and would probably be delicious.
 
I currently have a bochet that is two and a half months old, I have oaked half of it which added a bit more complexity to it.
 
I have seen that video.

Although I am interested in trying it myself I have not yet been able to bring myself to burn honey like that. Furthermore, I fear getting burned honey stuck to the bottom of the pan.

Before I try making, say, a gallon or more of bochet I'm going to have to get some much bigger pans. That might help in the beer making too as well as the bochet making.

Use a stockpot or a brew kettle. Its much easier to control boil overs and to clean.
And don't worry; unless you cook it until its charcoal then it won't stick to the pan much at all. A little hot water and the tiny bit that sticks will come right off.
 
I have seen that video.

Although I am interested in trying it myself I have not yet been able to bring myself to burn honey like that. Furthermore, I fear getting burned honey stuck to the bottom of the pan.

Before I try making, say, a gallon or more of bochet I'm going to have to get some much bigger pans. That might help in the beer making too as well as the bochet making.

I used an Al stockpot. A little PBW, and 10 min later it and my mash paddle were clean.
 
A few things on Bochet. I know the new way to make mead is no heat to preserve the varietal goodness, but in this case that doesnt matter, the taste you are going of is the taste of the cooked honey. The cooking part can be done in a pressure cooker, a crock pot, a pan on the stove or even in a big kettle, the differences are how dark the honey gets burnt. The pressure cooker doest get hot enough to caramelize all the different kinds of sugars so it comes out dark mahogany, while if you cook over direct flame you can go to black. The extreme black starts when you see grey puffs of smoke rising up instead of the white steam puffs. ONce it gets started you dont have to stir it unless you used a pot that was to small and need to knock back the froth. Adding water back in the very hot molten burnt honey is dangerous, the water instantly turns to steam and the honey will jump out and get you, a better idea is to let the honey cool a little and add very hot water to it slowly. We have had no problems cleaning the burnt honey out of anything with just some hot and soap, of course if you burnt it to crisp in your pan you went a little overboard.

Additions to a Bochet to enhance its flavor have been used by a lot of people, most popular are vanilla beans, oak and even a little chocolate. The burning process seems to make some of the sugars unfermentable so many Bochets dont finish dry, I think adding some raw uncooked honey at the start of the ferment will feed the yeasts better and help reach the desired alcohol level easier. Save some of the burnt honey to backsweeten your Bochet in case it does go drier than you want, if you dont use it for your Bochet, its great on ice cream or really just by itself.

WVMJ
 
Additions to a Bochet to enhance its flavor have been used by a lot of people, most popular are vanilla beans, oak and even a little chocolate.
WVMJ

I've also had extremely good results with apples and plums, with a coconut batch in secondary right now that seems to be working out quite well.
 
A few things on Bochet. I know the new way to make mead is no heat to preserve the varietal goodness, but in this case that doesnt matter, the taste you are going of is the taste of the cooked honey. The cooking part can be done in a pressure cooker, a crock pot, a pan on the stove or even in a big kettle, the differences are how dark the honey gets burnt. The pressure cooker doest get hot enough to caramelize all the different kinds of sugars so it comes out dark mahogany, while if you cook over direct flame you can go to black. The extreme black starts when you see grey puffs of smoke rising up instead of the white steam puffs. ONce it gets started you dont have to stir it unless you used a pot that was to small and need to knock back the froth. Adding water back in the very hot molten burnt honey is dangerous, the water instantly turns to steam and the honey will jump out and get you, a better idea is to let the honey cool a little and add very hot water to it slowly. We have had no problems cleaning the burnt honey out of anything with just some hot and soap, of course if you burnt it to crisp in your pan you went a little overboard.

Additions to a Bochet to enhance its flavor have been used by a lot of people, most popular are vanilla beans, oak and even a little chocolate. The burning process seems to make some of the sugars unfermentable so many Bochets dont finish dry, I think adding some raw uncooked honey at the start of the ferment will feed the yeasts better and help reach the desired alcohol level easier. Save some of the burnt honey to backsweeten your Bochet in case it does go drier than you want, if you dont use it for your Bochet, its great on ice cream or really just by itself.

WVMJ

Just to add to WVMJ, I recently started a bochet and used a crockpot that I placed in my oven. I then had "absolute" (I exaggerate , OK) control over the temperature and had no "scorched" (carbonized) honey. I kept the temperature at 350 F for 2 hours.. and kept my eye on the roasting as this was my first time... And yes... You need to add boiling water to the honey if you do not want to deal with scalding splatters of honey (for safety, I poured the water onto the honey while using the lid of the crockpot as a shield to contain possible splatters - which for the record did not occur).
My experience with my batch of bochet is that because none was burnt or scorched I seem to have had no problem with unfermentables. What seems to have happened though is the fermentation has taken much longer than I typically find with the yeast I use (71B) and the ambient temperature I ferment in (around 60F)
 
Going to have to do the crockpot route next go (you guys are genius!) I did mine on the stove with no issues on stuck honey (but got one splatter and those Hurt!) but I went into a rich caramel color vs the really black one I've seen on that vid also! I think I likely could have taken it a little darker but it was where I wanted at least for this one. May go with a darker one in the future though.
 
Bernard, if your ferment is taking longer do you think it might have to do with cooking the sugars and wont finish dry which would mean you have some unfermentable sugars in there from the cooking (just guessing, nobody really knows why some Bochets stop working early. WVMJ
 
We did a crabapple with Burnt honey, going to have to age that one a little while. I can see the plums working perferctly with a Bochet, very good thinking! I would imagine a raisan, date and fig would work also. We did a dried elderberry and a lot of other things in that batch, another one going to have to age a bit to mellow out. WVMJ

I've also had extremely good results with apples and plums, with a coconut batch in secondary right now that seems to be working out quite well.
 
Bernard, if your ferment is taking longer do you think it might have to do with cooking the sugars and wont finish dry which would mean you have some unfermentable sugars in there from the cooking (just guessing, nobody really knows why some Bochets stop working early. WVMJ

I don't recall at the moment how low the gravity was last time I took a reading but it was pretty darn close to 1.003 but I can still see bubbles coming to the surface and the bubbler is not silent, suggesting that CO2 was still being produced... so what seems to be the case is that fermentation is really, really slow but still ongoing... and on a side note, I am a little concerned that with such slow fermentation I am inviting all kinds of other bacterial action (I know there are stories of such happenings but I don't know the science that would explain why that would happen given the pH and the alcohol content and the anaerobic environment... BUT... yer never knows...)... I took a refractometer reading Wednesday evening but that reading was way off (the Brix equivalent to a gravity of 1.045)... But Sunday I will take another hydrometer reading and see what is happening...
 
Bernard, if your ferment is taking longer do you think it might have to do with cooking the sugars and wont finish dry which would mean you have some unfermentable sugars in there from the cooking (just guessing, nobody really knows why some Bochets stop working early. WVMJ

Measured the SG this morning and it is at .099, so it looks as though it IS finishing brut dry. I tasted it and it tastes nicely sweet (but then I like a dry-ish mead) although still a mite too "hot" (about 13% ABV)
 
Just to add to WVMJ, I recently started a bochet and used a crockpot that I placed in my oven. I then had "absolute" (I exaggerate , OK) control over the temperature and had no "scorched" (carbonized) honey. I kept the temperature at 350 F for 2 hours.. and kept my eye on the roasting as this was my first time... And yes... You need to add boiling water to the honey if you do not want to deal with scalding splatters of honey (for safety, I poured the water onto the honey while using the lid of the crockpot as a shield to contain possible splatters - which for the record did not occur).
My experience with my batch of bochet is that because none was burnt or scorched I seem to have had no problem with unfermentables. What seems to have happened though is the fermentation has taken much longer than I typically find with the yeast I use (71B) and the ambient temperature I ferment in (around 60F)

How often did you stir when using the crockpot? I want to make a bochet and the crockpot route definitely seems safer.
 
Revived from the dead?
I don't stir. You don't stir sugar when you are making candy. Stirring causes sugars to crystalize. I assume that honey behaves in much the same way. I guess the ONLY reason why someone might stir is to prevent the sugars from scorching (above hot spots) but hot spots are then the problem and the solution is not to stir but to change either your method of heating or the pot in which you heat the honey.
 
Stovetop method i've used:
Add a few drops of lemon and 2-3 tbsp water per lb. The lemon won't affect the flavor and helps prevent crystallization, and the water is to help keep it from burning. Turn it on a low heat and stir consistently while it is heating. After it starts to bubble, stop stirring and step back. Stirring at this point creates a crystallized mess. Just let it lightly simmer. When it gets to the darkness you want, remove from the heat. The darker it is, the more unfermentable sugars you should have. Taste the honey once it cools. It doesn't taste as sweet and is kind of nutty. I caramelize honey all the time, even if it's not for a bochet.
 
Sigvaldi - I guess I don't understand your process. You add water. OK so now the heat has to boil off that water before the temperature of the honey can rise to caramelize any of the sugars (which caramelize at far higher temperatures than water boils) . In other words all you are doing is delaying the time it takes for the honey to reach a critical temperature.

Then you stir at the beginning. Why? If you are concerned about hot spots? OK , but then either change your method of heating or change the pot or change both. Put the honey in a heat proof bowl three or four times the volume of the honey and stick it in the oven at 230 F . You can check the color change every 30 minutes or every 60 minutes..
 
This method is simply the one that has consistently turned out the best results and is easy to replicate. Adding a little bit of water is actually not that big of an issue as honey already has a 17% water content. And I had not thought about baking its but I would consider doing it however I do feel that the stove offers a little more control over when you would like to stop the caramelizing process. If you would like to use a different method by all means go ahead there's no one right way to brew a beer make a mead or carmelize honey.
 
Revived from the dead?
I don't stir. You don't stir sugar when you are making candy. Stirring causes sugars to crystalize. I assume that honey behaves in much the same way. I guess the ONLY reason why someone might stir is to prevent the sugars from scorching (above hot spots) but hot spots are then the problem and the solution is not to stir but to change either your method of heating or the pot in which you heat the honey.

A couple other questions, did you cook the honey in the crockpot on High or Low? Also did you cook it with the lid on it?
 
I have an inexpensive crockpot and cooking on low is really more a way to keep the contents warm once heated. I don't know how long it might take to heat the honey to a critical temperature if I used the warm setting. I use the high setting.
I cook with the lid on. To remove the lid is to make the crock pot ineffective. You need to keep the heat in the pot. The lid I have is clear so I can monitor what is going on. I find about 3 hours lightly caramelizes the honey.
 
I have an inexpensive crockpot and cooking on low is really more a way to keep the contents warm once heated. I don't know how long it might take to heat the honey to a critical temperature if I used the warm setting. I use the high setting.
I cook with the lid on. To remove the lid is to make the crock pot ineffective. You need to keep the heat in the pot. The lid I have is clear so I can monitor what is going on. I find about 3 hours lightly caramelizes the honey.

Thanks. Looks like I have a project next Saturday when I need a break from NCLEX studying.
 
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