Brewlab slopes now available via Hop and Grape

[Northern_Brewer]

Last time I saw the Brewlab mob they were talking about outsourcing their homebrew activities, and it looks like they've chosen Hop & Grape to carry a handful of their slopes. All going for £7.99/vial (currently ~€9.10/US$10.30), at the moment they only seem to offer shipping by courier but hopefully they can send the odd vial by post. Bear in mind you have to grow them up, they're not ready to pitch. The selection is rather biased towards the south, hopefully they can do some of the northern yeasts as seasonals.

They've changed the names but I've matched the new names to the old names, based on the descriptions being the same as here, and some brewery links according to S.cerevisae. The links are also confirmed by this test page which uses old names like Devon, 1500 TV1, Burton and East Midlands.

Brown Ales (profile = old Borders-1, "McEwan")
This Scottish ale yeast has moderate fermentation abilities, prefers low mineral wort and can produce a sulphur flavoured beer. Good ester flavours and phenolic characters are produced. It flocculates moderately well producing a light head initially and cells sediment well at the end of fermentation
Single character. Standard bitter, brown ale and dark ale production. Moderate fermentation speed. Low mineral worts preferred. Strong ester and strong sulphur ability. Medium flocculation.

Burton Standard Bitter (profile = old Burton upon Trent "Marston")
This classic Burton ale yeast has slow but steady fermentation abilities, prefers a low mineral wort and produces a sulphur flavoured beer. Light phenolic flavours may be produced. It flocculates slowly producing a light head initially but cells sediment well at the end of fermentation forming a dense sediment
Single character. Standard bitter production. Moderate fermentation speed. Low mineral worts preferred. Moderate ester and strong sulphur ability. Low flocculation.

Standard Bitter (profile = old 1500/Thames Valley-1, "Courage")
This classic English ale yeast is an all-round performer with good fermentation abilities, forgiving of wort character and producing a neutral to light flavoured beer. Limited sulphur is produced under stress and phenolic off flavours are not produced. It flocculates moderately producing a strong head initially but cells sediment rapidly at the end of fermentation forming a compact sediment.
Single character. Standard bitter production. Moderate fermentation speed. Light mineral worts preferred. Moderate ester ability. Moderate flocculation.

Standard Bitter - Fruity (profile = old 2100/Devon-1 - I'm wondering Hanlons just because I can't think of many other breweries there??????)
This West Country ale yeast has slow but steady fermentation abilities, prefers a low mineral wort and can produce a sulphur flavoured beer. Moderate to high ester flavours giving a banana aroma. Light phenolic flavours may be produced. It flocculates moderately producing high head initially and cells sediment moderately at the end of fermentation.
Single character. Standard bitter production. Rapid fermentation speed. Low mineral worts preferred. Moderate to strong ester and moderate to strong sulphur ability. Moderate flocculation.

Stouts/Milds (profile = old 2540/East Midlands-1, "Batemans")
This Midlands ale yeast has slow but steady fermentation abilities, prefers a low mineral wort and produces a low ester flavoured beer. Moderate sulphur may be produced under stress but no phenolic off flavours are produced. It flocculates poorly producing a light head initially but cells sediment strongly at the end of fermentation forming a strong sediment.
Single character. Standard bitter and dark ale production. Moderate fermentation speed. Low mineral worts preferred. Low to moderate ester ability. Low flocculation

Strong Ale (profile = old 1508/Thames Valley-2, I've seen "Hampshire brewery"? Again, not many old ones to choose from, maybe Gale's??)
This southern English ale yeast has slow but steady fermentation abilities, prefers a mineral wort and produces a low ester flavoured beer. Very low sulphur is produced under stress and phenolic off flavours are not produced. It flocculates moderately producing a medium head initially and cells sediment slowly at the end of fermentation forming a broad sediment.
Single character. Standard bitter and strong ale production. Slow fermentation speed. High mineral worts preferred. Moderate ester ability. Moderate flocculation.

 

[bierhaus15]

I though TV1 was King and Barnes? They have two other Courage yeasts available as well.

Regardless, that and the Borders yeast make great beer.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Maybe, I was just going on that old post from Sc, but the geography doesn't work as King & Barnes were in Horsham, which isn't in the Thames valley. I've seen it suggested that Sussex-2 could be theirs, which would at least make sense geographically.

 

[bierhaus15]

TV1 = K&B
TV2 = Gales
TV3 = Fullers

 

[Landlord]

Im heading back to blighty next week for a visit and I've ordered myself a slope of the F40 (scottish and newcastle strain). Anyone know a ballpark figure for the cell count on these slopes? I plan to step it up a bunch but it would be good to get a rough ballpark for the yeast calculator!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Apparently they claim a billion cells per slant, but I know someone who's counted them and found about half that. Be gentle on them, don't try to step up too quickly.

If you're ordering direct from them then get yourself some CC, which is a kinda fun northern strain.

 

[Landlord]

Nice cheers, a number at last! I could not find any actual number on t'internet!

I did try ordering directly through brewlabs, at least I sent them a few emails, but got no reply. I guess I should probably try calling, but I get the impression from the website, that they would rather let hop and grape deal with the homebrewers (especially the crazy ones from accross the pond). What I really wanted was Harveys (sussex 1). Hop and grape said they can get special orders of slopes but they need a minimum of 5 for a request. Nobody needs 5 slopes!

I never heard of that CC yeast, but it would be fun to try. What are its origins and distinctive qualities?

Actually I think I may have made a mistake ordering the F40 yeast. I was trying to get something I can't get here in Canada. Looking around it looks like both Wyeast and Whitelabs (and even my local yeast lab Escarpment) carry versions of the Mckewen's strain (that must be the S&N one right?) Oh well, I am going to tell myself that this brewlabs version, is the real deal, and better than those wyeast pretenders.

 

[bierhaus15]

Nice cheers, a number at last! I could not find any actual number on t'internet!

Hop and grape said they can get special orders of slopes but they need a minimum of 5 for a request. Nobody needs 5 slopes!

I never heard of that CC yeast, but it would be fun to try. What are its origins and distinctive qualities?

Actually I think I may have made a mistake ordering the F40 yeast. I was trying to get something I can't get here in Canada. Looking around it looks like both Wyeast and Whitelabs (and even my local yeast lab Escarpment) carry versions of the Mckewen's strain (that must be the S&N one right?) Oh well, I am going to tell myself that this brewlabs version, is the real deal, and better than those wyeast pretenders.

Hah, both times I've ordered from Brew Lab I got 5 slopes per go. Though I am somewhat of a special case when it comes to yeast.

Cullercoats is a very nice yeast, big top cropper with a light-moderately fruity profile and excellent flocculation. Moderate fermentation speed and it leaves a nice balanced profile. Let's hops come through well. Think cleaner and generally better version of WY1469.

I can assure you F40 is not like any WY or WL strain. It is among my favorites; similar to cullercoat yeast, but with higher attenuation and a flavor profile that can go either very clean or moderately fruity based on pitch and 02. Flocculates great and really lets hops/malt come through. I have 3 different McEwans strains in my collection and F40 is very different than all of them. The Borders (McEwans) is also leagues better than WY1728/028, for what it is worth. Really, I find the BL yeasts better than virtually anything I've used from the main labs in the US, and I've brewed with (nearly) every UK strain released in the last 10 years or so.

 

[ba-brewer]

I have been using information from this link, if you ferment out 10mL of low gravity wort you get about 0.8Bil cells.
https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices

I seen that people where making 30mL starter from a single brewlab slope if you estimate 1 or 2 Bil cells from that step that should get you pretty close. I think the step size determines the end result mostly for the small starters.

I do a 10 to 15mL first step with the contents of single slope with just periodic shaking, then a 100mL on a stir plate with content of the first(assuming 1Bcells from first).

I have some CC in the fermentor now, it seems fruitier than F40 I did a while back but that one had issues which I don't think was the yeast fault. I have some somerset I yeast too and look forward to trying that one as it seems like it will be an interesting yeast.

 

[Landlord]

Hah, both times I've ordered from Brew Lab I got 5 slopes per go. Though I am somewhat of a special case when it comes to yeast.

Cullercoats is a very nice yeast, big top cropper with a light-moderately fruity profile and excellent flocculation. Moderate fermentation speed and it leaves a nice balanced profile. Let's hops come through well. Think cleaner and generally better version of WY1469.

I can assure you F40 is not like any WY or WL strain. It is among my favorites; similar to cullercoat yeast, but with higher attenuation and a flavor profile that can go either very clean or moderately fruity based on pitch and 02. Flocculates great and really lets hops/malt come through. I have 3 different McEwans strains in my collection and F40 is very different than all of them. The Borders (McEwans) is also leagues better than WY1728/028, for what it is worth. Really, I find the BL yeasts better than virtually anything I've used from the main labs in the US, and I've brewed with (nearly) every UK strain released in the last 10 years or so.

Ah great stuff, I am now glad again that Ive got a slope of F40. So how does this pitch rate/O2 fruity relationship work with F40? >02 +>pitch= <esters? I like a fruity ale for sure!

Now I understand better about the 5 vials. I was thinking that I had to order 5 vials of harveys to get harveys! 5 different types is much more doable...Well next time I head back to Brexitland to see the old folks, (as long as I've made this F40 slant work, and managed to keep it alive on the plane and get it through canadian customs), I may order 5!

I got myself a few pounds of 2018 british hops sent to my old folks...bramling x, first gold, EKG and fuggles. I swear the english hops we get here in canada are minimum 3 years old.

Bierhaus did you ever try wlp041?

 

[Landlord]

ba-brewer. Ok that sounds doable. I am thinking 10ml 1020 shaken, 100ml 1040 on the stir-plate, followed by 600ml 1040, followed by 1500ml 1040 should get me 334, enough for a 200Bpitch and a 100B harvest.

I swear I read something on the brewlabs site about pitching the vial in 300mls 1020 wort, and then doing a 1litre 1040 starter. That doesnt sound like it would get me anywhere near an appropriate pitch size!

 

[bierhaus15]

Ah great stuff, I am now glad again that Ive got a slope of F40. So how does this pitch rate/O2 fruity relationship work with F40? >02 +>pitch= <esters? I like a fruity ale for sure!

Now I understand better about the 5 vials. I was thinking that I had to order 5 vials of harveys to get harveys! 5 different types is much more doable...Well next time I head back to Brexitland to see the old folks, (as long as I've made this F40 slant work, and managed to keep it alive on the plane and get it through canadian customs), I may order 5!

I got myself a few pounds of 2018 british hops sent to my old folks...bramling x, first gold, EKG and fuggles. I swear the english hops we get here in canada are minimum 3 years old.

Bierhaus did you ever try wlp041?

Yep, that's a great yeast as well. In terms of comparison, the F40 is similar, but overall "rounder" with better flocculation and does not have the slight tartness of the Anchor strain. For esters, I'm only on my 4th beer using F40, but lower 02 levels in this latest batch has provided a great fruitiness the others did not. I typically pitch around 0.75 m/c/ml per degree plato. I am very familiar with the S&N production strain and this is about as close to it as I've got. Not surprising considering the source.

One of my favorite beer's I brewed last year was a Cullercoats fermented best bitter that used MO, no 1 invert, and loads of good quality Bramling X and Kent Goldings. Wonderful lemony citrus peel and fresh herbs in that one.

 

[ba-brewer]

@Landlord
I think in the slanting sticky on BHT they were using the contents of single slope/slant into 250mL then stepping that up. I felt like that was too big of first step. I do 24 hours for the 10mL and 100mL but then the 500 or 600ml step I will step up after 12hours as they seem to be really happy by then.

Your step volumes seem reasonable and similar to what I do.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

@cire might be able to fix you up with some Sussex, and maybe its John Smith parent (Brewlab A38 or something like that), he’s used both recently. Or chat up a pub if you’re dahn sath....

CC is connected with Cullercoats, who are a youngish brewery on Tyneside so their yeast must have come from the NCYC or Vaux, S&N etc.

I think the idea is that F40 came from the Newcastle end of S&N....

Whilst you’re here, worth picking up a bottle of 1845, Bengal Lancer etc for harvesting- even a mini cask of Adnams Bitter/Broadside? Average beer, nice yeast. Worth a look in M&S as an easily accessible source of single hop beers that have included new British hops like Jester etc.

Talking of which, worth filling your boots with the newer varieties that don’t seem to make it across the pond, likeJester, Endeavour, Flyer etc. And the small harvest in 2018 means the likes of BX are in short supply. Also see eg
https://abushelofhops.co.uk/ and http://stocksfarm.net/ for old and new varieties respectively that you won’t get anywhere else.

I’ve used 041 once and liked it, it has an appealing drinkability to it, but like most Wyeast/White Lab strains it lacks a bit of character compared to UK-sourced yeast.

 

[Landlord]

So I got back from the UK (with a bunch of hops) and a vial of the brewlabs brown ale/scottish borders ale/F40/alleged newcastle part of the S&N yeast. I've stepped it up a quite few times and the starter smells great. I am gonna start it off with a nice dark mild on friday.

Should I be worried about diacytel with this strain? I usually raise the temp up a few degrees for the last 1/4 of the fermentation, unless I am using something notorious (eg ringwood), in which case I do a proper 2 days at 25°C post fermentation D-rest.
Also the brewlabs info mentions that it works well with low mineral water. I've got very hard water here in Ontario, I could cut it with RO, but I kind of like a hard water profile in my slightly roasty mild. Ive never really consider water profile in terms of yeast choice before. My gut says ignore it and go with the hard stuff....

 

[cire]

So I got back from the UK (with a bunch of hops) and a vial of the brewlabs brown ale/scottish borders ale/F40/alleged newcastle part of the S&N yeast. I've stepped it up a quite few times and the starter smells great. I am gonna start it off with a nice dark mild on friday.

Should I be worried about diacytel with this strain? I usually raise the temp up a few degrees for the last 1/4 of the fermentation, unless I am using something notorious (eg ringwood), in which case I do a proper 2 days at 25°C post fermentation D-rest.
Also the brewlabs info mentions that it works well with low mineral water. I've got very hard water here in Ontario, I could cut it with RO, but I kind of like a hard water profile in my slightly roasty mild. Ive never really consider water profile in terms of yeast choice before. My gut says ignore it and go with the hard stuff....

I like your choice of beer and very few in UK who enjoy a decent mild would drink one in fear of diacetyl. It should exhibit an array of malt forward flavors that would override any expected level of diacetyl. So, unless you chill it to a point when all residual yeast drops out, or serve it at a temperature when the qualities of a good mild cannot be discerned due to a frozen tongue and palate, you shouldn't worry. 22C peak fermentation should be fine, just don't drop it much below 14C, at which point the yeast should quickly drop clear once the beer has reached racking gravity.

Low mineral waters adversely effect flocculation, but F40 clears well when calcium levels are lower than typical levels for UK ales. It should work perfectly well in your hard water.

 

[Landlord]

I am going to rack my dark mild fermented with F40/scottish borders tonight. I'm excited to see how it came out, its definately a true top cropper, it looked like a mouse could have easily run accross the top of that krausen! My last starter step didnt drop very clear, but it looks like the batch dropped really bright.

I am thinking of maybe using it in a barley wine, after a few generations. I am guessing if this yeast is related to the mckewans strain it should have a pretty decent alcohol tolerance?

 

[ba-brewer]

I ferment in a stainless bucket so I can not really see the beer as it ferments but can sort of tell what happened after. First pitch of F40 did not have too much of krausen, the repitch of that yeast though had a good blow off and had creamy yeast still floating on top when I drained the fermentor. The repitch of that batch is back to no krausen.

I seen things on the internet that F40 does not clear well but the two batches I have kegged cleared well with no post ferment finings.

 

[Landlord]

Interesting, my last starter stage definately didnt clear well. I harvested a 1/3 of the starter in mason jar from that stage, and even after being in the fridge for a week and a half, it is not bright. However, with the other 2/3 of the starter, I threw out all the wort, and just pitched the cake, hoping that I selected for the fast floccing proportion of the starter. I hit the mild wort with my usual minute of pure o2, and a decent pitch (0.75m/ml/plato) and my krausen was enormous particularly for such a low gravity wort (1038). Fermentation fridge smelled VERY fruity.

 

[Landlord]

Well I tried a half pint of a dark mild brewed with the Brewlab-F40/scottish borders/mckewans/S&N last night and I am very impressed. Layers upon layers of rich deep chewy malty goodnes, with nice fruityness, that works well with the Bramling cross, and zero diacytel. I am gonna enter it into a canadian competition and see how the judges like it.
Next up I am gonna try the F40 it in a hop forward "ordinary" bitter, and see how it works with large doses of late EKG, Strian Goldings and Northdown.
I am also starting to think how I can save some of the yeast for long term storage incase something nasty gets in my re-pitches down the road. Freezing some in glycerol maybe.

 

[yeastseeker]

anyone in the USA willing to do a yeast trade or send me some of the scottish borders yeast? Im willing to reimburse for shipping and handling costs. Im located in the bay area

 

[bierhaus15]

Well I tried a half pint of a dark mild brewed with the Brewlab-F40/scottish borders/mckewans/S&N last night and I am very impressed.

Was this a split batch or did you combine them? F40 and Borders are very different, but both make excellent beer. I have a split batch of 80/- WLP028 and Borders on tap now and the latter is so much more complex/interesting tasting, considering how clean/malty it is. F40 continues to impress as an all around excellent yeast as well.

 

[Landlord]

Ok I'm confused about what yeast I have now.

I asked the guy at hop and grape whether the strain now marketed as brown ale (formally scottish borders) strain (https://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/beer/...lab-yeast-slopes/brewlab-yeast-brown-ale.html) was the strain once known as F40 and he said it was! So thats what I bought. I asked him about some of the other strains they carry, and he said he would have to check with brewlabs, but he seemed quite certain about the brown ale being F40.

That seemed to make sense to me as:
the F40 was touted as the Scottish & Newcastle (S&N) strain online,
S&N merged in the 1960s and were the dominant brewers on both sides of the border, brewing in tyneside, yorkshire and edinburgh.
Even the new name seems to hint at S&N flagship brand ie- brown ale, ie newkie brown ale.

So does that mean F40 is the newkie S&N strain, and brown ale/scottish borders is the S&N mcEwans strain, and the dude at hop and grape was wrong?

Oh well it seems to make a pretty good mild wherever its from!

 

[bierhaus15]

Hmmm. Sounds like the guy was confused about the two, as what is touted as Brown Ale in the H&G description is definitely the Borders yeast. It is the same info that was on the old BL website (~2016?) with the more extensive strain info. Whether or not that was the yeast they brewed Newkie Brown with, I don't know, but I could see it being a good fit regardless.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Just from what I've read on t'internet I'd always been led to believe that F40 was from Newcastle, and the Borders was from McEwan. They may have had the same ownership in recent years, but that doesn't mean they used the same yeast.

However, I had a funny moment at BrewCon last year, where Brewlab were handing out free slopes as samples from the "old" standard range of a dozen or so. I said something to Alison along the lines of "Oh, I was hoping you'd still have some F40 left" and she looked puzzled for a moment, then said something along the lines of "we brought some but we've run out". Which would imply that she's used to calling it by another name and that it was one that was common enough for them to bring along. Maybe as one of the standards, or as one that they get asked for a lot.

So it's possible that F40 is Borders, I don't know as I've not used either. Or maybe they were regarded as distinct strains based on history then some DNA work showed that they were (almost?) the same.

All a mystery. But F40 seems to be something of a favourite on the UK forums, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet...

 

[Landlord]

I asked Alison and she confirmed what bierhaus said, that the F40 is not the same as the scottish borders.

I wonder if the idea that the F40 was the S&N geordie strain might not be true?
I also asked Allison whether the scottish borders would be more appropriate for a clone of NKB or McEwans and she said somewhat evasively, that it would work well in both.
Agreed if newcastle and mckewans had merged in recent years, they could have maintaned different yeasts no problem. But they merged in 1960 (20 years before brewlab even existed), and in those days brewers were swapping yeast strain all the time right?

Ive seen online folks mentioning that brewlabs recommended it for a theakstons old peculiar clones, and S&N owned theakstons in the 80s. So a theakstons yeast, could be considered a S&N yeast.

Anyway I am not too bummed out that I bought the wrong yeast. I like the flavour profile from the mild I made with the scottish borders yeast. Brewlabs descibe it as having strong ester ability. This weekend I am going to try fermenting it a bit warmer maybe even 72°F, to see if I can more fruityness out of it.

F40 will be a fun one to try down the road.

 

[Landlord]

Just to make things less clear:

Michael jackons suggests McEwans yeast consisted of like 20 strains:
http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000020.html
(some of which went to duvel)

Wyeast "McEwans" wy1728 seems to be suprisingly unrelated to the Whitelab "McEwans" wlp028
Wyeast "McEwans" wy1728 is related most closesly to wyeasts "worthingtons white shield" wy1028.

Wyeast Worthingtons whiteshield (wy1028) in turn seems suprising (or not suprisingly) only distantly related to the whitelabs version wlp013
http://beer.suregork.com/?p=4030

No idea where brewlabs "McEwans" Scottish borders fits in this picture

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I asked Alison and she confirmed what bierhaus said, that the F40 is not the same as the scottish borders.

I wonder if the idea that the F40 was the S&N geordie strain might not be true?
I also asked Allison whether the scottish borders would be more appropriate for a clone of NKB or McEwans and she said somewhat evasively, that it would work well in both.
Agreed if newcastle and mckewans had merged in recent years, they could have maintaned different yeasts no problem. But they merged in 1960 (20 years before brewlab even existed), and in those days brewers were swapping yeast strain all the time right?

The big swaps generally came to an end once the NCYC was established in 1951 as the big breweries generally became more organised about banking, although there are the odd exceptions like allegedly Boddies lost theirs in the late 70s/ early 80s..

The more you learn about this stuff you learn to be less definitive about any of the attributions. I would say that in general by 1960 big breweries were pretty organised about banking their yeast, and in general major breweries kept their own yeast during a takeover. However, a lot changed when they moved to conicals in (generally) the 1970s, typically they "simplified" their multistrains down to one or two strains to make them easier to manage. But IIRC Theakston still use squares or at least until quite recently, and squares generally have their own special strains that are adapted to the squares (or vice versa) so they tend not to be shared, they generally go where the squares go (so eg Black Sheep got their yeast and their squares from Hardy & Hanson).

So I've an open mind - I would tend to assume in the absence of any hard evidence that the two halves of S&N had separate yeast unless proven otherwise, and that Theakston would have kept their own yeast too. Not having played with F40 or Borders yet, I can't compare them phenotypically, but certainly what I've heard of F40 doesn't sound like any of the Edinburgh yeasts. In the 19th century the Edinburgh brewers effectively operated a pooled multistrain, they were always losing yeast and borrowing it from their competitors, more than so than in any other city that I'm aware of.

I wouldn't put _too_ much store in "can you use this yeast for this beer" recommendations, certainly not without context - it could just be that it's a nice all-purpose northern type yeast that is flexible enough to work in different styles.

 

[Landlord]

Just tapped a keg of a hoppy little bitter made with the scottish borders. I pitched at 18°C, let is rise up to 21.5 till fermentation was pretty much done (day 5), then bumped it up to 25°C to clean up for a couple of days, before cold crashing. Wow, that yeast is proper fruity at those temps! Strong tropical fruit esters, (almost too much). I think this yeast would work well with some tropical american/NZ hops.