Brewing with honey

[skeletonkrew]

Just a little curious, What was the OG of that kolsch you brewed with 4 lbs of honey?

 

[mgonbrewlab]

For some reason, I could not get an uploaded image in my original message, so here is my latest invention.

6 lbs gold LME (I used Northern Brewer)
3 lbs honey (1.5 lbs at start of boil, 1.5 lbs for last 15 min of boil.)

1 oz Cascade @ 60 min
1 oz Mt Hood @ 15 min

Irish Moss for clarifier.

Clean ale yeast (I used 11mg US-05 and 7 mg Munton's Ale Yeast).

OG (Brewer's Friend) 1.061
FG (measured) 1.009

Abv- est 6.69%

 

[wbarber69]

Nice

 

[rodwha]

Is it lighter than it appears? Without any crystal or anything it looks a little dark.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

Slighly, but not much. I may have gotten a little carmelization, but the "gold" extract was more dark than I would have expected.

 

[rodwha]

skeleton: who's kolsch are you talking about?

 

[mgonbrewlab]

This batch is not going to last long enough to properly age at this point.

I have cracked about 4 bottles now, and I am noticing a much larger amount of settled yeast in these bottles than I have gotten in other beers, poor clarity, and (in my liter bottle that I opened tonight) a sharp taste on the second pint poured (first was nice and light and sweet). The beer in the bottle (closed) has some head and is bubbling with visible carbonation.

Is this a simple case of over pitching, or is there something more nefarious at play? I primed with .75 cup dextrose, if that helps

 

[rodwha]

I used a lot of honey at one time and it left my beer a bit strange for a while. After a couple of months it wasn't so bad.

I'm wondering if there wasn't an over pitch with that much yeast, except I was shown a different yeast calculator that said nearly 2 packs may be necessary for a strong 6 gal batch.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

I will do my best to be patient and see what happens in a few weeks. I guess it could be young beer + sediment from poor racking + chill haze

 

[rodwha]

I've found out myself just how friendly time can be. Not so with everything though, but if a beer isn't quite right time may help it tremendously. I've had a couple of beers I would have dumped but time made drinkable.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

So... The verdict is in. I definately upset the yeast cake racking out of my primary into my bottling bucket and did not leave enough time for the yeast to settle back out. My liter bottles all have huge yeast deposits that get stirred up easily if I am careless transporting or pouring.

Time has greatly improved evrything else with this beer, though

Likewise, it is the yeast sediment (I suspect) giving the poor clarity and taste, as the first pint I pour out of my liters is always clearer and "truer" in taste.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

If anyone is looking to repeat this recipe... Don't. Or, rather, don't unless you plan to add specialty grains for better body/taste balance. While I will consider the expiriment successful in that I didnt have swill, it was very thin with poor mouthfeel in comparison to other gold/pale beers I have sampled recently.

 

[fsr_racer]

I added 3lbs of local WV wildflower honey at flameout to NB's American Wheat AG kit. I also used a little store bought India based honey I bought on a whim for priming, 6oz diluted into 16oz of water, and it carbonated very well. It ended up with a thicker, almost creamy, mouthfeel than the first batch I did w/o honey, and after 2 pints my face is feeling pretty flushed. I might try staggering my honey additions next time, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, but have read several places that adding at the beginning of the boil does take a lot away from what the honey might otherwise add to the finished product.

How has it aged?

 

[mgonbrewlab]

Not well. It could be my imagination but it feels like the beer got thinner as I worked through the end of it.

My recipe was a single extract, honey, and non-boisterous hops with a clean malt fermented cold, so there was very little flavor to impart from any source. So, none of that is the honey's fault.

If you are using wild honey it is strongly suggested that you boil but it takes a ton away from the flavor. I say risk it and add it at flameout or see if you can find UV Pasteurized honey. And add some sweet malt like crystal, caramel, or honey to add extra residual sweetness/flavor.

 

[fsr_racer]

The dangers/risks of using raw honey are widely debated. I read somewhere that you can pour the honey into a shallow pan, slowly bring it up to 176 degrees in your oven, and hold it there for 10min to sanitize, but not hurt the other properties in the process. I'll probably due this before staggering additions during fermentation.

 

[rodwha]

mgon: Give it a little more time. I didn't date my entry, but I gave my overly honeyed beer maybe an additional 4-8 weeks after 4 weeks fermenting and 4 weeks conditioning followed by a week in the fridge, and it was certainly better. Still thin though, but better.

I had used ~3 3/4 lbs of honey in the fermentor after a week of fermentation in a 5.3 gal batch.

I don't add any crystal malts to my honey wheats, though I have also used a bit go honey malt. I do, though, use a little crystal in my blondes. I don't recall how much honey you used, but my suggestion would be to keep it to around 2-2.5 lbs per 5 gal.

My latest honey wheat (6 gal batch), and about what I feel is a nice balance between plenty of honey without becoming too thin, and yes I taste the honey, and it's very much like Blue Moon's honey wheat, was:

3 lbs wheat DME (2 lbs @ FO)
2.25 lbs honey (FO)
1.75 lbs 2-row
1.75 lbs soft white wheat berries
0.5 lb honey malt
0.4 oz Willamette & 0.4 oz Mt Hood @ 45 mins
0.8 oz Willamette & 0.8 oz Mt Hood @ 20/5 mins
WB-06 dry yeast fermented colder (low 60's)

This wasn't as hoppy as I had hoped, but was still a good honey wheat beer.

fsr: If you add the wild honey after a week of fermentation I'd think the yeast would have plenty of time to have done their main job, and would have a thousand legs up against any wild yeast. But it may also be something you wouldn't want to use as a washed yeast as it may have some wild yeast going which can bite you later on.

I wouldn't add honey any sooner than 5 mins left, but really prefer flame out these days. That's plenty to kill anything in it I'd think. No qualms with adding it after fermentation though, but I like numbers, and it's just easier to figure it out at FO.

 

[fsr_racer]

mgon:

3 lbs wheat DME (2 lbs @ FO)
2.25 lbs honey (FO)
1.75 lbs 2-row
1.75 lbs soft white wheat berries
0.5 lb honey malt
0.4 oz Willamette & 0.4 oz Mt Hood @ 45 mins
0.8 oz Willamette & 0.8 oz Mt Hood @ 20/5 mins
WB-06 dry yeast fermented colder (low 60's)

I like this recipe, and may try it. My equipment is not up to 5gal AG brewing, and I had a hell of a time with it, so I will be stepping back to partial-mash. Also wanted to cut back the honey a little, as it pushed my ABV up a little to much. Are you adding 5lbs total DME? How would you adjust your hops?

 

[Fletcher21]

I have added raw honey to many batches in my primary without issues and/or concern. I always add my honey at high Krausen typically over a 2-3 day span( little each day) even in the rare case there was wild yeast at high ferment who do you think will win out? The small amount of wild or my roaring yeast from a starter.

Love my beer dry and a little back note of honey isn't bad either. Typically I don't do more than a pound though.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[rodwha]

fsr: That's 2 lbs of DME at FO and 1 lb at boil for a total of 3 lbs.

This wheat beer was too alcoholic for style, but I brewed it to be beer for moving as we wouldn't get time to relax and enjoy it.

I'm reluctant to go all grain as I often have troubles with temps and other things, but also because I don't truly understand water chemistry and don't care for adding a bunch of stuff to it anyway. Instead I use 1 gal of RO water if it's a dark beer and 2 gals if it's a lighter beer and use filtered tap water, which I know is rather hard.

If I were to do something with the hops I'd likely use much more in the flavor and aroma additions. It really didn't come across as 30 IBU's.

 

[wbarber69]

I have a high gravity beer I make. An ipa. That I add store bought raw unpasteurized honey to. It takes 3 lbs and I put it right in the fermenter as I'm comin out my boil pot. It's almost wax when I get it so I use some 100f water in a pot and let the honey sit unopened so it will turn to liquid. Then I sanitize the jars before opening and just dump them in the bottom and let the beer mix with it. It come out great!

 

[rodwha]

Are you dropping the honey jars into the fermentor?

 

[wbarber69]

Are you dropping the honey jars into the fermentor?

No I smash them up first. And dump it all in there.

 

[wbarber69]

I pour it in the bottom. And fill with chilled wort. And let it mix during fermentation. No excessive heating. I imagine it's been uv sanitized or something. It ends up dry and super clean and clear. With a slight essence of clover honey on the bubbles. With great head retention for an ipa. And great mouthfeel. I don't get these qualities like this when I cook the honey. I've tried doing it as an extract and at 15 minutes and at flameout in other trials, but straight to wort is my favorite. With this particular beer anyway. It's also triple dry hopped along the way with around 2 oz each time. It's got lots if places to get infected along the way, but it just doesn't for some reason. Any other beer I make I try to get at minimum 3-5 minutes of heat or more. But honestly I've never had any of my honey beers turn (knock on wood). And I only make that particular ipa in the summertime, because it's the only time I can find that specific honey on the shelves. Which reminds me…

 

[mgonbrewlab]

That is a great idea. If it was UV Pasteurized there would be no reason to heat it... I thought that was only a necessity for true "raw" honey.

The honey I had was from Midwest Brewing, so heat was probably unnecessary. I guess it was a good learning experience.

 

[wbarber69]

No I only had to heat it up to get it out the jar.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

Rodwha- I think my biggest issue with the beer was the lack of body, which makes sense since honey was 1/3 of my fermentables. Next time I am thinking either a honey wheat/red or honey blonde with either a good specialty grain mixture or a more assertive hop schedule, combined with a less clean yeast and warmer fern temps.

 

[wbarber69]

I've had good luck with white wheat and oats when using a lot of honey. Especially if it's going into the fermenter. As far as body goes.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

I am thinking red wheat and caramel 60 steeped with wheat base extract, honey, and then adding either cloves & white pepper OR using T-58 yeast for the same effect.

 

[wbarber69]

Be careful with cloves. I made 5 gallons of milk stout with a little red wheat one time and crushed 1 clove added at 15 minutes. It was good. But damn I don't like cloves that much.

 

[mgonbrewlab]

I have dry hopped with dried crushed cloves (approx 1 tsp) in a 2 gallon batch of a nut brown and the results were fantastic, but that was another very simple beer (one can malt, one hop addition) so the cloves were the "feature" flavor. Not sure if I would do that again.