Brewing on a time constraint

[LittleRiver]

...The finer crush will also aid in efficiency correct?

Yep. Great efficiency with a no sparge process is a beautiful thing.

No worries of a stuck sparge I'm sure (obviously)

Correct. Chances of a stuck sparge in a simple BIAB rig are zero.

Some people recirculate during the mash on their BIAB rigs, but personally I don't see the point. It's just more expense, more time, more cleaning. It brings the potential of stuck sparges, especially if you grind your grains very fine.

Is there a bunch of grain matter left in the kettle?

No.

Use a bag made of swiss voile fabric, it has a tight weave that is just right. I use a Wilser bag and highly recommend it.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Do BIAB
You can do other stuff while brewing and kill 2 birds with one stone. You dont need to babysit the brew all day.
Mill grain while water is heating up
Mash with heat off and run around doing whatever for an hour.
Boil for 30 minutes not 60 will save time. Do whatever around the house while its boiling.
Chill to around 110 which goes quick and "no chill" from there, Pitch the next day

Even if the brew day takes 5 hours start to finish your really only working on brewing for half the time.

 

[applescrap]

Sorry I'm so late to the party. I don't always check new threads.

Brewing quick is my thing, always has been and always probably will. Lately have been considering dme because heck it doesn't even need boiled. I have two different threads titled brewing quick. I average 2.5 hours for 5g and 3hr for 10 with 45 min mash and boil. I am now closer to 2.5 for 10g with no chill. I will tell you more later when I have time but for now check my threads.
If I went 30 mash and 15 boil that would put me under 2 hours for 5g.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

If I went 30 mash and 15 boil that would put me under 2 hours for 5g.

Have you noticed any difference with a 30 minute mash vs 60?

Is 15 minute boil really enough? Boil is my main concern with steam indoor. I would like to cut the boil down as much as possible without any ill effect

 

[Gunshowgreg]

Have you noticed any difference with a 30 minute mash vs 60?

Is 15 minute boil really enough? Boil is my main concern with steam indoor. I would like to cut the boil down as much as possible without any ill effect

I second this question.

 

[Gunshowgreg]

No.

Use a bag made of swiss voile fabric, it has a tight weave that is just right. I use a Wilser bag and highly recommend it.

I dont think I saw this on northern brewer where may I find it?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I dont think I saw this on northern brewer where may I find it?

Wilserbrewer is a member on the site...get his bag. I've had a few. Quality bags and hes a good guy

 

[Gunshowgreg]

Wilserbrewer is a member on the site...get his bag. I've had a few. Quality bags and hes a good guy

How much? I guess I can PM him

 

[LittleRiver]

I dont think I saw this on northern brewer where may I find it?

Here's a link to Wilser's web site.

You should follow the BIAB Forum on this site, and post any BIAB questions you have there. Lots of helpful folks there.

 

[Gunshowgreg]

Here's a link to Wilser's web site.

You should follow the BIAB Forum on this site, and post any BIAB questions you have there. Lots of helpful folks there.

Thank you very much. He is reasonably priced. I can get a nice kit with a pulley and all for about $37!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Brewing quick is my thing, always has been and always probably will. Lately have been considering dme because heck it doesn't even need boiled. I have two different threads titled brewing quick.

Links to threads?

I average 2.5 hours for 5g and 3hr for 10 with 45 min mash and boil. I am now closer to 2.5 for 10g with no chill. I am now closer to 2.5 for 10g with no chill. I

At the moment, I'm skeptical (but curious) about shorter "all-grain" boils. One of the reasons is the lack of recipes. At the moment, I get better results with longer mashes / boils. I am definitely interesting in seeing complete recipes for shorter "all-grain" boils.

 

[kh54s10]

IMO. As far as short mash times it depends.. You really need to check that you truly have complete conversion. You can do an Iodine test. I have never done one so you would have to look that up.

For short boils you will have to adjust your hop schedule accordingly so most kits would have to be altered or added to.

I enjoy brewing and time is not much of a concern for me so I have never looked into this.

 

[applescrap]

Links to threads?



At the moment, I'm skeptical (but curious) about shorter "all-grain" boils. One of the reasons is the lack of recipes. At the moment, I get better results with longer mashes / boils. I am definitely interesting in seeing complete recipes for shorter "all-grain" boils.

Yeah, I should post some links, guess I figured they are easier to find, Haha, more worthy, than they probably are.

Just listening today to brulosophy podcast 37, I think it was. Marshall is so cool, anyways in 2015 he tested 60 v 30 min boil. Totally expecting cream corn. Nope. Insignificant. He couldn't believe it. Next he tested 30 min v 90 min boil. 93 percent weyerman pilsner. Couldn't believe it insignificant again! Sent the beer to a lab. No dms in either. Matt del fiacco comes along, does a 60 v 180 minute boil. I know everyone seems to think these guys are a bunch 9f hacks and all but he friggin nails the og on both. Insignificant again!!!! So take what you will, for me I'm not to worried about 30 minute boils and will drop down to them from 45 from now on, for sure.

Yeah recipe for shorter boil could require some mods, sure. 45 is easier to adjust potentially.

 

[applescrap]

IMO. As far as short mash times it depends.. You really need to check that you truly have complete conversion. You can do an Iodine test. I have never done one so you would have to look that up.

For short boils you will have to adjust your hop schedule accordingly so most kits would have to be altered or added to.

I enjoy brewing and time is not much of a concern for me so I have never looked into this.

Everyone knows I don't like brewing, never have. Don't mind one bit that others like it. Hell, I like golfing. Seems most love it, if not deeply enjoy it. I wonder if the effort to brew quick makes it less enjoyable. Also I don't have a set spot because I don't have an 80 foot sjoo cord. When I get home from work on a Tuesday at 5, I am looking to start by 6 and finish by 9. Just another chore.

 

[applescrap]

I tried to quickly just outline how I do it. Apologies it's a little choppy. Biggest downfall as I get older is its physical.

Heres how I do it. I use a 5500 watt element that I refused to compromise on in the spirit of speed. Even quicker, start with hot water. The warmer the water to start the faster. New idea, buy my water in 1g jugs and leave in sun?!
So power, full volume water, biab brewing. Start mash water. Heat to strike, doc time. Be quick with water gathering. Document water volume. Doc strike temp and time. Put bag in. Dump grain, whip the fuq out of it. Doc temp, time. Cover, and I put jacket over kettle. Losing very very little heat. Set time for 45 minutes. 40 minutes later uncover and doc temp. Stir the beejeebies out of it. Wait a few and stir again. Pull bag and strain in collander over bucket. Start heat right away. Add squeezed juice. Add fwh doing everything to mitigate shorter boil. Bring to boil. Doc boil start time, set timer for 45 minutes. Get cheap ic ready. Sanitized, hooked up, leak proof and ready. End of boil chill. Agitating the chiller up and down like you were getting paid to dig a hole with it. I can chill 6 g of wort to 70 degrees in well under 10 minutes. Lift kettle and dump in clean sanitized fermenter. Pitch yeast, put fermenter where it goes. Clean kettle and equipment in lawn with oxy or not. Done, doc time. Review times, and work on, consider, and plan for future brews.

Lately I have been no chilling. I am brewing a light lager with very little hops so no worries there. So next time 45 min mash and 30 min boil is 1 hr 15 minutes. Powerful heating and gathering etc no more than 1 hr so with no chill I am going to shoot for 2hr 15 min next time on 10g. I can go on with tips ideas in any and each phase, feel free to ask. I started on stove with cheap kettle so I can help there to. I saw another thread about a kettle, haven't looked but I am a good candidate for some of your questions.

 

[jtratcliff]

Crush grains the night before, Short mash, short boil, BIAB, no sparge, no chill, heat-stick on a timer to heat strike water while you sleep...

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Yeah, I should post some links, guess I figured they are easier to find, Haha, more worthy, than they probably are.

I'll ask for links (one last time). Links?

Crush grains the night before, Short mash, short boil, BIAB, no sparge, no chill, heat-stick on a timer to heat strike water while you sleep...

Still looking for some complete recipes (full ingredients list, bonus "likes" for worked out examples of converting 60/60 mash/boil into 20/20 or 30/30, ...).

IMO. As far as short mash times it depends.. You really need to check that you truly have complete conversion. You can do an Iodine test. I have never done one so you would have to look that up.

For short boils you will have to adjust your hop schedule accordingly so most kits would have to be altered or added to.

Good point on the iodine test.

With hops and the boil, it seems like boiling hops both 1) creates bitterness and 2) removes "aromas" / "flavors".

So for those who do shorter (20 minutes or less) boils, do find you need to adjust the type of hop used to account for this? Or are you finding that 15 minute boils are sufficient to remove the "flavors" / "aroma"? Again, I'm looking for your experiences with all-grain brewing, so please don't cite brulosophy, 15 minute pale ale (DME/LME), BBR's hop sampler (DME/LME), or the "no boil" thread (DME/LME and/or sours) here at HBT.

I enjoy brewing and time is not much of a concern for me so I have never looked into this.

I also have the time to BIAB with a 60/60 mash/boil. Absent any well written complete recipes along with solid guidance on how to convert recipes, it's really hard to justify investing the time figuring out how to "dial it in" for shorter boils.

I also get good (for me) results with shorter DME/LME boils. And there are plenty of people sharing recipes on 15 minute pale ale (DME/LME), BBR's hop sampler (DME/LME), or the "no boil" thread (DME/LME and/or sours) here at HBT.

 

[Gunshowgreg]

Everyone knows I don't like brewing, never have. Don't mind one bit that others like it. Hell, I like golfing. Seems most love it, if not deeply enjoy it. I wonder if the effort to brew quick makes it less enjoyable. Also I don't have a set spot because I don't have an 80 foot sjoo cord. When I get home from work on a Tuesday at 5, I am looking to start by 6 and finish by 9. Just another chore.

I actually like to brew. However like you I dont like for it to take all day. I have other things to do. Study, fly, fix stuff round the house cut grass, do dad stuff and cook dinner. I hate investing all my time into one thing

 

[Gunshowgreg]

I tried to quickly just outline how I do it. Apologies it's a little choppy. Biggest downfall as I get older is its physical.

Heres how I do it. I use a 5500 watt element that I refused to compromise on in the spirit of speed. Even quicker, start with hot water. The warmer the water to start the faster. New idea, buy my water in 1g jugs and leave in sun?!
So power, full volume water, biab brewing. Start mash water. Heat to strike, doc time. Be quick with water gathering. Document water volume. Doc strike temp and time. Put bag in. Dump grain, whip the fuq out of it. Doc temp, time. Cover, and I put jacket over kettle. Losing very very little heat. Set time for 45 minutes. 40 minutes later uncover and doc temp. Stir the beejeebies out of it. Wait a few and stir again. Pull bag and strain in collander over bucket. Start heat right away. Add squeezed juice. Add fwh doing everything to mitigate shorter boil. Bring to boil. Doc boil start time, set timer for 45 minutes. Get cheap ic ready. Sanitized, hooked up, leak proof and ready. End of boil chill. Agitating the chiller up and down like you were getting paid to dig a hole with it. I can chill 6 g of wort to 70 degrees in well under 10 minutes. Lift kettle and dump in clean sanitized fermenter. Pitch yeast, put fermenter where it goes. Clean kettle and equipment in lawn with oxy or not. Done, doc time. Review times, and work on, consider, and plan for future brews.

Lately I have been no chilling. I am brewing a light lager with very little hops so no worries there. So next time 45 min mash and 30 min boil is 1 hr 15 minutes. Powerful heating and gathering etc no more than 1 hr so with no chill I am going to shoot for 2hr 15 min next time on 10g. I can go on with tips ideas in any and each phase, feel free to ask. I started on stove with cheap kettle so I can help there to. I saw another thread about a kettle, haven't looked but I am a good candidate for some of your questions.

What vessel do you use for no chilling?

 

[CarolinaMatt]

Brew in a bag sounds very attractive and would probably be about 30$ with a bag and pulley system to upgrade? It's just an idea to entertain. Yeah my pump is kinda weak. I'm no tree hugger but I liked the idea of being environmentally friendly and not wasting water. I do use garden hose water first before using the ice bath method. I save the hot water to clean with. I may continue stiring with the cooler as opposed to doing it intermentently. As far as the slow sparge i read that it was a good way to increase efficiency. So that where that started.

Got a really dumb question for the BIAB guys. Can you damage the bag if the burner is on and scorch the bottom of the bag because it is making contact? Or are they pretty heat resistant? I'm just curious.

I do BIAB and it was a game changer for me in terms of time as well as quality getting my efficiency up. I rigged together a simple little hoist system with just a ladder and a ratchet strap/tie down -- check the picture out. I simply lift the grain bag out when needed and hang it on the hooks of the strap via it's handles. Works like a charm and costed me nothing since I already had everything!

 

[beernutz]

Crush grains the night before, Short mash, short boil, BIAB, no sparge, no chill, heat-stick on a timer to heat strike water while you sleep...

Do you actually do this? I have a very nice brewhardware heat stick but I am too paranoid to start and run it on a timer while I'm asleep.

 

[Gunshowgreg]

I do BIAB and it was a game changer for me in terms of time as well as quality getting my efficiency up. I rigged together a simple little hoist system with just a ladder and a ratchet strap/tie down -- check the picture out. I simply lift the grain bag out when needed and hang it on the hooks of the strap via it's handles. Works like a charm and costed me nothing since I already had everything!


Very nice my current bag doesnt have the handles but I could probably just it it and hang it all the same. Tha ks for the pictures.

 

[z-bob]

I have a 5500W bucket that I use to heat my strike water. It will bring 3 gallons of cold tapwater to a boil in just a few minutes while I'm getting everything else together, then I add a gallon of cold water and I have 4 gallons that's just about the right temperature. If I start with 4 gallons, I have to watch it or I'll overshoot the temp. I can't imagine a need for a heatstick on a timer (while I'm asleep or away!) unless it's a very low wattage.

I did a no-boil sour beer last year that was very fast. It was in the fermenter in less than 2 hours. It was... interesting. Not bad; I will probably try it again this summer, but will bring the wort briefly to a boil next time just to sterilize it and to get rid of some of the protein.

 

[CarolinaMatt]

hmmm wonder what the best way around no handles would be. If you look in to a new bag I got "The Brew Bag" and it has been fantastic for me!

 

[Gunshowgreg]

hmmm wonder what the best way around no handles would be. If you look in to a new bag I got "The Brew Bag" and it has been fantastic for me!

Guess I may use the strainer that came with the pot that is used for crawfish and other seafood. It has a handle on it. Just knot the bag gently

 

[LittleRiver]

hmmm wonder what the best way around no handles would be. If you look in to a new bag I got "The Brew Bag" and it has been fantastic for me!

The best way to attach a bag to a hoist is to use a small loop of cord to make a prusik hitch around the bag. That way you can put your attachment point wherever you want it to be.

Generally speaking the lower the better, especially if you're using a ratcheting pulley to attach the bag. You want to be able to easily reach the ratchet release after the bag is raised.

I'm not a fan of the bag designs that have webbing loop handles, they put the attach point too high after the bag has been raised.

 

[balrog]

For altbiers and amber ales I found 30m mash noticeably less flavorful than 60m mash.
One man's experience, sample size 4 times shorter mash on recipes made couple dozen times previously.
I did not notice much difference on lighter ale recipe
I still mash traditionally longer if doing lower temp mashes, like 147F

 

[applescrap]

I'll ask for links (one last time). Links?



Still looking for some complete recipes (full ingredients list, bonus "likes" for worked out examples of converting 60/60 mash/boil into 20/20 or 30/30, ...).



Good point on the iodine test.

With hops and the boil, it seems like boiling hops both 1) creates bitterness and 2) removes "aromas" / "flavors".

So for those who do shorter (20 minutes or less) boils, do find you need to adjust the type of hop used to account for this? Or are you finding that 15 minute boils are sufficient to remove the "flavors" / "aroma"? Again, I'm looking for your experiences with all-grain brewing, so please don't cite brulosophy, 15 minute pale ale (DME/LME), BBR's hop sampler (DME/LME), or the "no boil" thread (DME/LME and/or sours) here at HBT.



I also have the time to BIAB with a 60/60 mash/boil. Absent any well written complete recipes along with solid guidance on how to convert recipes, it's really hard to justify investing the time figuring out how to "dial it in" for shorter boils.

I also get good (for me) results with shorter DME/LME boils. And there are plenty of people sharing recipes on 15 minute pale ale (DME/LME), BBR's hop sampler (DME/LME), or the "no boil" thread (DME/LME and/or sours) here at HBT.

Apologies, I decided to not share the link because there is nothing there that wasn't in my post. That's how I brew quick. I cant help with hops and boil because I have only been doing 45 min boils and with fwh no big adjustments. My last beer was a 30min boil but 1 oz per 5g hallertau, and no chill, there is nothing to worry about. Partially why I made a light lager.

Just spitballing some ideas here, I see some recipes with first hop additions at 30 min. Those seem a good candidate for short boils. Also one could use a "hop tea" type approach like no boil does for adjustment purposes. You sound like you have plenty of time and are pretty serious so perhaps these kind of techniques aren't for you. I brew what I want and adjust from there. I understand though no one wants to much hop flavor in a stout if it was supposed to be a 60 min boil. Iiac beersmith can help with adjustments as can ibu calculators. With shorter boil water may need adjusted too! Hopefully as time progresses some solid recipes for quick brewing will be easier to find.

Why not cite brulosophy? They have tested boil length multiple times and looking into how they adjusted would be very valuable. Also the short and shoddy series has grown in number. I saw a podcast about them and cant wait to listen. I am sure he will go over all the details and thinking behind the adjustments he made. I love that bbr 15 min recipe but am too cheap to buy dme so haven't made it. This could be a recipe though?! Make it the same way they do just do a 30 min boil and start the hops at 15 just like it was dme. If you have made this recipe you probably have some insight into how the 15 boil works as much as anyone. Bottom line it's not traditional, not for everyone, and will likely require some work to dial in some processes. And maybe not every recipe will work. This isnt some big trip to me, I brew, I drink, I brew again. I am not trying to take this to my tomb with me.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Why not cite brulosophy?

In this case, I'm looking for personal experiences ...

So for those who do shorter (20 minutes or less) boils, do find you need to adjust the type of hop used to account for this? Or are you finding that 15 minute boils are sufficient to remove the "flavors" / "aroma"? Again, I'm looking for your experiences with all-grain brewing,

... which would exclude many things, including ...

... brulosophy, 15 minute pale ale (DME/LME), BBR's hop sampler (DME/LME), or the "no boil" thread (DME/LME and/or sours) here at HBT.

And, as I said earlier:

Still looking for some complete recipes (full ingredients list, bonus "likes" for worked out examples of converting 60/60 mash/boil into 20/20 or 30/30, ...).

 

[CascadesBrewer]

For altbiers and amber ales I found 30m mash noticeably less flavorful than 60m mash.

Interesting. Any thoughts on what might cause this? Were you still hitting your target gravity?

I don't have that much driving need to shorten my mash and boil times...since they are the few relaxing times in the brewing process. I will probably try a 30 min mash/boil Pale Ale one of these days to try it out.

 

[jtratcliff]

Do you actually do this? I have a very nice brewhardware heat stick but I am too paranoid to start and run it on a timer while I'm asleep.

I have to admit, I've never actually done it overnight while asleep.... I don't usually brew 1st thing in the morning. But I have set it up to come on at a certain time while doing other stuff around the house.

 

[balrog]

Interesting. Any thoughts on what might cause this? Were you still hitting your target gravity?

I hit my OG/FG when short mash and short boil
I had of course to adjust water, but my hop schedules for dark/ambers can use "clean" flavored Magnum and I just adjust for IBU using calculators.
THe mash does more than convert; it also soaks flavor from grain/husk into the wort. Less soaking, less flavor, that's my thinking. Like dropping a tea bag in hot cup of water for 5 seconds yields weaker tea than steeping the tea bag for 5 minutes. Apologies to any Brits who just had visceral reactions to the use of tea bags instead of tea leaves.

In this case, I'm looking for personal experiences ...

The @Yooper Haus Pale ale recipe is the one I've made the most and tried the most different ways. Since it uses Cascade bittering/flavor/aroma, changing to all 20m and later additions with Cascade eliminates any need to adjust hop schedule for unwanted flavors from bittering hops that aren't boiled 60m. I just use the calculators to adjust quantities of hops to hit the same target overall IBU.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The @Yooper Haus Pale ale recipe

Thanks! I found one long running topic at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/bee-cave-brewery-haus-pale-ale.31793/. 80% 2-row / 20% Vienna, crystal for color & season to taste - a classic grain bill for hop experimentation.

changing to all 20m and later additions with Cascade eliminates any need to adjust hop schedule for unwanted flavors from bittering hops that aren't boiled 60m.

Makes sense. And there are a number of other hops that make a good "single hop" beer.

I've had a couple of "meh" results with shorter mashes / boils. So for now, I use DME for shorter brew days along with BAIB (longer mashes / boils). For now, I remain skeptical that the general advice for recipe conversion is as simple as shorting the time for the mash / boil. When I have some time (or get in the mood) for brewing some experimental batches, I may start with shorter mash/boil with the Haus Pale Ale and see where it goes.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks! I found one long running topic at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/bee-cave-brewery-haus-pale-ale.31793/. 80% 2-row / 20% Vienna, crystal for color & season to taste - a classic grain bill for hop experimentation.

Good recipe, but definitely not one of mine!

 

[Ninoid]

Heat 6 gallon of water, BIAB 60 minutes, No Sparge, 20 minute boil + 20 minute hopstand, No Chill, washing = 3,5 hours

Heat water up to boiling, disolve DME, 20 minutes hopstand, No Chill, washing = very short brew day (I did not try, but it's logical).

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Heat water up to boiling, disolve DME, 20 minutes hopstand, No Chill, washing = very short brew day (I did not try, but it's logical).

I have brewed this "quick & quaffable" recipe a number of times:

1 lb light DME, 1 gal water (APA) or 3/4 gal water (IPA), 1 oz Citra hops, 1/4 pkt US-05 yeast; put water in kettle; add DME; add heat; when wort gets to 180, add hops for 20 minute hop steep; chill to pitching temperature; pour wort into FV & pitch yeast without rehydration.

Plus there's this: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/no-boil-recipes-new-for-2019.660329/ .

And finally, there's this comment over in brulosophy:

Greg
May 30, 2019 at 10:51 am

Pro brewer here. You can easily make professional-quality beer with Briess DME. [... ] I’ve totally done DME pilot batches to mess with customers though, even to the point of just mixing it with 180F water from the tankless, throwing in a bunch of hops, then chilling– you can make absolutely great beer. [...]

 

[applescrap]

I remain all but certain boiling dme does nothing valuable. Granted I have never used it. But whatever process turned it from wort to pow pow might have it covered. What's the best deal anyone ever got on 55 pound sack of it?

 

[jtratcliff]

Good recipe, but definitely not one of mine!

Yeah, but yours is a winner too! https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/da-yoopers-house-pale-ale.100304/

It's my goto pale ale recipe... I've riffed on it with hops but I try to keep the grains fairly close (I use 2-row and victory or biscuit instead of MO, but keep the %-age of Vienna, Munich, Crystals). I have a German friend who claims it's his favorite APA ever!

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

FYI there was a good article in a recent Zymurgy written by Martin Brungard [isn't he on this site somewhere?] about the boil. He actually gave good reasons for which boiling too long or too vigorously can be a negative to the beer.

That said, he also talked extensively about SMM/DMS and how to drive it off, and for very pale beers [especially those made with pilsner malt] it will be hard to handle it in a boil of less than 30 minutes.

Recommend reading it if you're interested in trying to minimize boil length while still accomplishing everything the boil needs to accomplish.

 

[Ninoid]

FYI there was a good article in a recent Zymurgy written by Martin Brungard [isn't he on this site somewhere?] about the boil. He actually gave good reasons for which boiling too long or too vigorously can be a negative to the beer.

That said, he also talked extensively about SMM/DMS and how to drive it off, and for very pale beers [especially those made with pilsner malt] it will be hard to handle it in a boil of less than 30 minutes.

Recommend reading it if you're interested in trying to minimize boil length while still accomplishing everything the boil needs to accomplish.

I boil 20 minutes All Grain, even with Pilsner malt, and I did not feel the presence of DMS when boiling or on drinked beer.