Brewed first beer, flavor problems...

[clavalla]

So I brewed my first beer. I used the belgian tripel kit from brewers best. I don't remember the strain of yeast from this kit. I will walk though my brewing procedure and I'm hoping someone can help pinpoint or fix this for the future. I used bottled water for my water, spring or distilled, I don't remember. I was using my stove so I was able to hold my temps to what the instructions said really well. I will say that it was hard to get to a 'rolling boil' though during the 60 min boil. It was my first brew so I didn't use a cleaner but used starsan on everything...I mean everything. I can think of one thing that was not sanitary and that was using my mouth to start my siphon from kettle to primary.
I kept it in the primary for 4 days where it went from 1.082 to 1.033, then went to the secondary and left it there for just over 3 weeks. All fermentation was in a room that stays a pretty consistent 67-69 degrees.

I bottled in 32oz bottles and left for three weeks. I put one in the fridge yesterday and tried the first one out today. It is well carbonated, with great foamy head and retention. It is a bit more amber than golden than I thought it should be but its pretty close to what the kit said it would be.

(first home brew and am I no way a beer tasting expert but will do my best) Initial smell is..well band aidy.not hoppy or beery to me. First drink nice mouth feel..a twing of chemically but I cant put my finger on it..then malty and not a terrible after taste. The chemical taste tends to be worst if I do short sips instead of full tongue covering mouthfuls of the drink. I'm hoping not to cause this in the future so any questions or help on this would be much appreciated.

 

[mesa4234]

In my experience, I find it better the leave the beer in the primary more than four days. Even though it dropped to 1.033, the yeast probably still had some work to do. Even if the gravity wasn't going to drop more (though I think it might have) the yeast need some time to clean up the off flavors etc. in the beer.

Is there any reason you moved it to the secondary so quick?

 

[freisste]

Hmmm... The easy answer to band-aid flavor is chlorine in tap water. Which you didn't use.

I have heard that fermenting too warm can cause some band-aid-y flavors, but I also thought Belgians liked the heat.

So the point of this post is I'm not sure. Sorry.

 

[clavalla]

Well, the instructions said to move it to the secondary before the fermentation had ended so I moved it thinking I would be out of town for a few days and I didn't know any better. It still took plenty of yeast with it and finished up around 1.022. It took enough yeast with it to form a nice creamy head on it after 3 weeks in the bottle, i used 5 oz of priming sugar so its nice an carbonated. Maybe letting it sit in the primary longer would have let the yeast clean up some flavors, or would it still do that in the 3 week secondary??

 

[GratefulDabHead]

You may have let it sit in the secondary to long with all the sediment. The cake of yeast, grain and hops will produce of flavors if exposed to beer to long


A Deadheads a Brewhead

 

[Barley_Bob]

I don't see what the temperature of the wort was when you pitched in your yeast...

I doubt it was from it being on the yeast too long.

 

[clavalla]

I don't see what the temperature of the wort was when you pitched in your yeast...

I doubt it was from it being on the yeast too long.

According to my notes, the temperature was 68 degrees when I pitched the yeast. I did not rehydrate the dry packet. I took it out and let it set at room temp per the directions and poured it into the bucket.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

First things first... What was your gravity readings, original and finished?

Secondly, never use your mouth to siphon. Fill the line with your sanitizer mixture or boiled water(or get an auto-siphon). Start the siphon in another container, then quickly move to your fermentation vessel(or pinch it then move at your own pace).


I'm thinking your off flavors are a mixture of things. Mostly these:

1. You probably oxidized the **** out of it. Secondary really isn't necessary for a Belgian, imo.

2. Fermentation temps for a Belgian. Start it low, and let it slowly ride up. I've heard of people starting around 60(which is normal), and letting it ride up to the 90's(which is crazy). I let mine run up to just above 80 by the time it's finished. Sometimes less.

3. Sometimes **** just doesn't work out.

 

[clavalla]

From all the posts I've read, this smell is almost always something that wont go away. But is there any case where these smells/flavors are present in high alcohol young beer but dissipate with age?

 

[phuff7129]

The color of the beer being darker is pretty normal for an extract beer. Most extract brews are darker because of the amount of kettle carmelization that happens.

As for your band aid flavor. My best guess is you produced some phenols during fermentation probably because of the higher temps. 67 to 69 degree ambient temps could mean actual fermentation temps in the mid to high 70's. I took a look at the yeast that comes with that Mr Beer kit and it is not Belgian yeast so 68 actual temp is probably as high as you would want to go. Shoot for low 60's ambient temp when using ale yeasts. High 60's is just too high for most ale yeasts.

Also taking it off the yeast after 4 days was a big mistake. I know the instructions tell you to do it but I always recommend new brewers leave in on the yeast for at least 2 weeks. Given time, yeast will clean up most off flavors. A good rule of thumb is 2 weeks in primary, 2 weeks in secondary, and 2 weeks in the bottle. Or 4 weeks in primary and 2 weeks in the bottle will work too.

I am also curious if you took another gravity reading before you bottled. The 1.033 reading when you transferred indicates that fermentation was not even close to being done so I am wondering how much lower your gravity got in secondary.

 

[clavalla]

First things first... What was your gravity readings, original and finished?

OG was 1.082, Final was 1.022. It was still fermenting in the secondary so I would hope it didn't oxidize it and from what I've read about oxidation that doesn't seem to the flavor/ smell I'm getting.

I bought a autosiphon and upgraded some equipment now so I won't be suck starting the siphon anymore

 

[clavalla]

The color of the beer being darker is pretty normal for an extract beer. Most extract brews are darker because of the amount of kettle carmelization that happens.

As for your band aid flavor. My best guess is you produced some phenols during fermentation probably because of the higher temps. 67 to 69 degree ambient temps could mean actual fermentation temps in the mid to high 70's. I took a look at the yeast that comes with that Mr Beer kit and it is not Belgian yeast so 68 actual temp is probably as high as you would want to go. Shoot for low 60's ambient temp when using ale yeasts. High 60's is just too high for most ale yeasts.

Also taking it off the yeast after 4 days was a big mistake. I know the instructions tell you to do it but I always recommend new brewers leave in on the yeast for at least 2 weeks. Given time, yeast will clean up most off flavors. A good rule of thumb is 2 weeks in primary, 2 weeks in secondary, and 2 weeks in the bottle. Or 4 weeks in primary and 2 weeks in the bottle will work too.

I am also curious if you took another gravity reading before you bottled. The 1.033 reading when you transferred indicates that fermentation was not even close to being done so I am wondering how much lower your gravity got in secondary.

I responded to the gravity reading in another post. Here are the instructions from the brewers best kit http://www.brewersbestkits.com/pdf/1044 2013 Belgian Tripel Recipe.pdf It does not state the yeast strain unfortunately. I will see if I can track it down.

 

[ballsy]

Ferment temps may have had something to do with it. Taking out of primary so early, more likely a cause. I simply leave my Tripels in primary for about 4-5 wks and go right to bottling bucket. The main thing is u really have to wait before opening another bottle...my tripel was not ready until 3-4 mths after bottled. Big beers need time!

sent from Galaxy S4 after a few beers using homebrew talk app

 

[MikePote]

What do you use for a brew kettle? I use a cheap aluminium tamale steamer and I got a horrible chemically off flavor on my first beer because I didnt season my pot before brewing (at least I think thats why). Many were undrinkable. If you use aluminium make sure you fill the pot with water and boil for a couple hours before brewing. Also I learned to be paitent. I got super discouraged a few times upon trying a beer for the first time (usually i try one at a week, one at two weeks) but after a month or so in the bottle it got WAY better. Im only about 10 brews in but to me it seems it has taken around six weeks before they are really at the point where they are done. Good luck.

 

[clavalla]

I'm not sure..my wife bought it for me with the kit. I know it was cheap like 20-30 dollars for a 7 gallon pot and really light.so..I'm guessing aluminum. I really hope that this could be the culprit. I'm trying to come up with answers as I brewed a cream ale 3 days ago and was hoping to be able to maybe take some corrective action on fermentation or some other step if it wasn't too late. I upgraded to a decent triple bottom 8 gallon SS kettle for this brew so maybe that will correct this off flavor.

Could you describe the off flavor?

 

[CB_in_Tokyo]

Did you sanitize with bleach by any chance? Even though you used bottled water you may have added some chlorine if you used bleach to sanitize your primary and secondary.

I see you used Starsan to sanitize so likely not.

 

[cobrem]

Your OG was fairly high for using one packet of non-hydrated dry yeast. You probably stressed the yeast. I'd recommend rehydrating the yeast, and maybe even pitch a second envelope.

 

[Glynn]

Medicinal
These flavors are often described as mediciney, Band-Aid™ like, or can be spicy like cloves. The cause are various phenols which are initially produced by the yeast. Chlorophenols result from the reaction of chlorine-based sanitizers (bleach) with phenol compounds and have very low taste thresholds. Rinsing with boiled water after sanitizing is the best way to prevent these flavors.

 

[clavalla]

So if I make the assumption that phenols were caused by to high of fermentation temperatures for that yeast..will these dissipate with age in the bottle? I wish I could find out the yeast so I could see what the results are for a high ferment for that type. Until I can get temperature control set up, does anyone have any recommendations of an Ale strain I could use with my current temps which are just a 67-68 ambient?

 

[Foosier]

You may have let it sit in the secondary to long with all the sediment. The cake of yeast, grain and hops will produce of flavors if exposed to beer to long


A Deadheads a Brewhead

I am sorry. This is not accurate. 3 weeks is a common amount of time to leave beer in even Primary where it is in much more contact with yeast than a secondary as described by the OP.

The off flavors you are referring to are caused by yeast autolysis. The conventional wisdom is this is a bigger issue for large commercial brewers with large vats of beer where pressures are greater on the yeast at the bottom of the vat. This is not applicable usually in a home brew environement. Personally I have left my beer on the cake for 3 weeks with no issues and I know this is a commonly accepted, almost best, practice.

 

[Foosier]

I do not think time will solve all of your issues. To be sure aging bigger beers does help. Beer, especially bottle conditioned, is a "living" thing. It changes, matures and will be different over time. To be honest, I keg and usually am not hapy with my beers in the keg until they have been on the gas for at least 2-3 weeks. You can really taste a difference as the beer matures and hits its' sweet spot.

It is possible that the flavors you describe will go away. As some have said, never dump it because time can make a beer better. Whether this will happen or not is a bit more of a crap shoot.

 

[clavalla]

Well I'm not dumping it, it's still drinkable and better than say steel reserve lol, and at 8% abv it starts to taste better after the first glass I'm hoping that this doesn't reoccur with the cream ale I brewed on Saturday, and that I can take this as a lesson learned from my first brew and knowledge going forward.

 

[Croyzen]

This is in addition to everything already mentioned about the process.

Not knowing anything about the water you used is a big deal. If it was distilled or spring makes a big difference. With extract it's **preferred** to use distilled water as the extract will have what's needed due to the manufacturing process. Water quality varies so widely when purchasing water. If the water is distilled it's no guarantee that by the time you pour it out of the jugs it's of decent quality. Sitting in plastic jugs for who knows how long could possibly play a role. If it's spring water, what's in it? How much of what? Use your own water, remove chlorine/chloromine, and filter it with carbon as a starting point. Leave the water jugs at the store.

Also, when doing a brewers best kit you have no idea how long any of those ingredients have been sitting around. All those ingredients sitting on a LHBS shelf at room temp for a long time, yeast, LME/DME, hops, and specialty grains. The handling and storage of ingredients will play a big role in possible off flavors.

Once you get the process down try making the same recipe with good water and fresh extract, grains, hops, and yeast and see if the same off flavors are there.

 

[phuff7129]

So if I make the assumption that phenols were caused by to high of fermentation temperatures for that yeast..will these dissipate with age in the bottle? I wish I could find out the yeast so I could see what the results are for a high ferment for that type. Until I can get temperature control set up, does anyone have any recommendations of an Ale strain I could use with my current temps which are just a 67-68 ambient?

Yes. Most of the liquid belgian yeasts like warmer temperatures. For instance, wyeast 1214 Belgian Abbey yeast had a temp range from 68 to 78 degrees which should work perfectly for your temps not to mention it is a fantastic yeast.


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[GratefulDabHead]

If you have too much boil hops/dry hops and they sit for too long exposed to your beer I promise you'll get grassy/soapy flavors.


A Deadheads a Brewhead

 

[freisste]

So if I make the assumption that phenols were caused by to high of fermentation temperatures for that yeast..will these dissipate with age in the bottle? I wish I could find out the yeast so I could see what the results are for a high ferment for that type. Until I can get temperature control set up, does anyone have any recommendations of an Ale strain I could use with my current temps which are just a 67-68 ambient?

I don't know of this is exactly the type of answer you were looking for, but a swamp cooler is a cheap way to control fermentation temps. Your ambient isn't THAT high, so a relatively small amount of work could help a lot.

Granted, a swamp cooler is a LOT of work (compared to nothing, for someone without time away from work). Still, simple and cheap.

 

[clavalla]

It's not a soapy/grassy taste. The bandaidy smell is a for sure thing. I only put one bottle in the fridge so I don't have another to pull out to do a tasting right now to give a better description of what is "off" with the taste. The hops scent is dead, I don't perceive that at all when I smell it. There is bitterness to the beer but no real hoppy taste. I looked around I'm almost positive the yeast was Safbrew S-33 in the kit.