Brewed concentrate kit undiluted?

[Justibone]

I have a question: has anyone ever purchased a wine kit with concentrate, and then not diluted it as per the instructions?

I'd like to see if concentrated juice could give a hint of the wonderfulness of ice wine, but at a fraction of the price. I know that the wine kit concentrates are acid balanced for dilution, and that yeast getting going in that high of SG would be a challenge, etc... that's why I'm asking if anyone has either tried it, or if they've actually done it.

Ice wine kits are $100 minimum for a 3 gallon kit... but concentrate kits can be had for quite a bit less. Anyone tried this?

(I did do several searches before starting this thread, but I only came up with a lot of extraneous stuff.)

 

[malkore]

The whole wine isn't going to be balanced is the problem. Acid will be off, and without the water to dilute it, your final gravity will be different and I suspect it will be extremely cloying IF you can even get it to fully ferment.

There's probably a reason the ice wine kits cost more.

 

[Justibone]

There's probably a reason the ice wine kits cost more.

There is ABSOLUTELY a reason they cost more... ice wine is awesome!

I'm just wondering if anyone else has done it. Someone on Amazon mentioned that they brewed a 6 gallon El Cheapo kit to only 5 gallons and got much better body, so I'm wondering what would happen if I brewed to 3 gallons.

If someone else has actually done it, they can share their results and save me $45 potentially.

 

[DrJerryrigger]

There is ABSOLUTELY a reason they cost more... ice wine is awesome!

I'm just wondering if anyone else has done it. Someone on Amazon mentioned that they brewed a 6 gallon El Cheapo kit to only 5 gallons and got much better body, so I'm wondering what would happen if I brewed to 3 gallons.

If someone else has actually done it, they can share their results and save me $45 potentially.

I have no experience with kits, and just a little with wine, but I think you could be on to something, if well planned. The only difference between the ice wine kit and the normal kit may just be the instructions and the ph of the stuff. PH can be changed, and likely won't need to be much if at all. Some PH strips, backing soda, and some chalk should get you some super sweet wine with the characteristics you want...
...or you could try to track down some good wine grapes, put them in your freezer for a few hours, toss them in a salad spinner lined with cheese cloth, and well I think you get the idea. (about 20 hours of work per 750ml)
Before jumping to any conclusions about saving money though, look into the SG of the compared kits. The Ice wine kit may have an equivalent amount of sugar per price, therefore you could be spending half as much to make half as much wine, and with the ice wine kit you wouldn't have PH problems, and possibly more unforeseen complications.

 

[Justibone]

The only difference between the ice wine kit and the normal kit may just be the instructions and the ph of the stuff. PH can be changed, and likely won't need to be much if at all. Some PH strips, backing soda, and some chalk should get you some super sweet wine with the characteristics you want...

I assumed I could manage the pH, but what makes ice wine so great is the overall balance of sweetness and acidity, as well as the intensity of the flavors.

...or you could try to track down some good wine grapes, put them in your freezer for a few hours, toss them in a salad spinner lined with cheese cloth, and well I think you get the idea. (about 20 hours of work per 750ml)

This is essentially cryoconcentration, and if it works it would be nice, but commercial vintners have not been satisfied with the results, presumably.

One can also go without the salad spinner by just putting the frozen concentrate in a mesh bag (like a paint strainer or BIAB-beer-mesh-bag) and squeezing it like you would if you didn't have a fruit press and you were making wine not-from-concentrate or a kit.

Before jumping to any conclusions about saving money though, look into the SG of the compared kits. The Ice wine kit may have an equivalent amount of sugar per price, therefore you could be spending half as much to make half as much wine, and with the ice wine kit you wouldn't have pH problems, and possibly more unforeseen complications.

The kits should, in theory anyways, not be merely cryoconcentrated, though there is really no way to prove one way or the other, except perhaps after the brewing is done. In Ontario they have the VQA to ensure proper quality and procedure is used in the production of ice wine, but I don't know of any such association protecting the integrity of brew kit providers.

 

[DrJerryrigger]

The price difference doesn't seem large enough to me; a cheap wine goes for five buck, a cheap ice wine for 40, so wouldn't the kit be about 8 times more expensive (per gal)? I guess it is about 4 times as much, but that still seems low.

 

[Justibone]

The price difference doesn't seem large enough to me; a cheap wine goes for five buck, a cheap ice wine for 40, so wouldn't the kit be about 8 times more expensive (per gal)? I guess it is about 4 times as much, but that still seems low.

I suspect the kit is not *all* ice wine grape juice, but rather some proportion ice wine grape juice as well as cryoconcentrated juice. I have no proof of that, but that might explain the lower-than-expected price.

For six gallons, the cheapest kit that sells itself as an ice wine is a riesling kit for about $75 x 2 = $150. $150/6 = $25/gallon.

The cheapest non-ice wine riesling kits I've seen are about $40 for six gallons, so $40/6 = $6.67/gallon.

$25/$6.67 = 3.75, so about 4 times as much, like you said. If the ice wine kit is about 1/2 ice wine juice and 1/2 cryoconcentrate, that price point would make more sense.

 

[DoctorCAD]

I believe (but have not confirmed all kits) Ice wine kits are for 3 gallons of finished product.

 

[Justibone]

I believe (but have not confirmed all kits) Ice wine kits are for 3 gallons of finished product.

Yes, true, as far as I have seen.