Brewday yesterday, have some questions.

[Hoosier-Brewer]

I brewed my fourth batch yesterday, an AHS Anniversary ESB extract with grains. The grains included were 1lb of Crystal 90L and .5lb Crystal 60L, I believe both of which are fermentable correct?

Assuming they are instead of just steeping them (or maybe it was just steeping) I brought 2 gallons up to 156, added the grains in a bag and let it sit for 1 hour at about 151, occasionally swirling and dipping the bag. After that I slowly poured 1.5 gallons of 170 water over the grains. I then added about 3lb of LME and 7oz of BrewVint (corn sugar) for a slight boost. And proceeded brewing as normal. The OG came out at 1.060, the recipe OG says 1.048, not including the extra sugar which should raise the gravity to 1.057 per BrewMate. Did I get some additional conversion with the 1 hour steep/mash?

Here's the recipe.
AHS Anniversary ESB - Extract (Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale))

Original Gravity (OG): 1.057 (°P): 14.0
Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (°P): 3.1
Alcohol (ABV): 5.88 %
Colour (SRM): 15.1 (EBC): 29.7
Bitterness (IBU): 45.5 (Average)

77.03% Liquid Malt Extract - Light
11.85% Crystal 90
5.93% Crystal 60
5.19% Cane Sugar

0.2 oz/Gal Target (9% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.1 oz/Gal Northdown (8.1% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
BrewMate didn't show my last addition, .25oz of Northdown at 5 minutes

1tsp Irish Moss @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
.5tsp Yeast Nutrient @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 151°F for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 68°F with Wyeast 1968 - London ESB Ale

Notes: 4/22/2011 8:42:12 AM : Brew Day

Mashed/Steeped grains at ~151 for 60 minutes, sparged with 170 degree water, 1.5 gallons.

OG 1.060

I have one other question.
I have been adding Irish Moss, 1tsp per 5 gal batch, in all of my brews. I re-read some of Palmer's book today and he notes Irish Moss is not for use in extracts. What will this do to my brews?

I am definitely enjoying my new hobby and finally had the opportunity to have my own homebrew (Nut Brown Ale from my first batch) while brewing. It wasn't bad, but did lack much head and probably could use another week or two to be better, it was 3 weeks in bottles. Thanks for any help!

 

[Rentachik]

I brewed my fourth batch yesterday, an AHS Anniversary ESB extract with grains. The grains included were 1lb of Crystal 90L and .5lb Crystal 60L, I believe both of which are fermentable correct?

Assuming they are instead of just steeping them (or maybe it was just steeping) I brought 2 gallons up to 156, added the grains in a bag and let it sit for 1 hour at about 151, occasionally swirling and dipping the bag. After that I slowly poured 1.5 gallons of 170 water over the grains. I then added about 3lb of LME and 7oz of BrewVint (corn sugar) for a slight boost. And proceeded brewing as normal. The OG came out at 1.060, the recipe OG says 1.048, not including the extra sugar which should raise the gravity to 1.057 per BrewMate. Did I get some additional conversion with the 1 hour steep/mash?

Here's the recipe.
AHS Anniversary ESB - Extract (Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale))

Original Gravity (OG): 1.057 (°P): 14.0
Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (°P): 3.1
Alcohol (ABV): 5.88 %
Colour (SRM): 15.1 (EBC): 29.7
Bitterness (IBU): 45.5 (Average)

77.03% Liquid Malt Extract - Light
11.85% Crystal 90
5.93% Crystal 60
5.19% Cane Sugar

0.2 oz/Gal Target (9% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.1 oz/Gal Northdown (8.1% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
BrewMate didn't show my last addition, .25oz of Northdown at 5 minutes

1tsp Irish Moss @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
.5tsp Yeast Nutrient @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 151°F for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 68°F with Wyeast 1968 - London ESB Ale

Notes: 4/22/2011 8:42:12 AM : Brew Day

Mashed/Steeped grains at ~151 for 60 minutes, sparged with 170 degree water, 1.5 gallons.

OG 1.060

I have one other question.
I have been adding Irish Moss, 1tsp per 5 gal batch, in all of my brews. I re-read some of Palmer's book today and he notes Irish Moss is not for use in extracts. What will this do to my brews?

I am definitely enjoying my new hobby and finally had the opportunity to have my own homebrew (Nut Brown Ale from my first batch) while brewing. It wasn't bad, but did lack much head and probably could use another week or two to be better, it was 3 weeks in bottles. Thanks for any help!

Yes 1lb of Crystal 90L and .5lb Crystal 60L are fermentable, steeping them for 30 min @151 should do the trick.

Don't worry about the .003 gravity points. Differences in process equipment.... can cause this. If there was a 20 point different, then I'd worry.

Irish moss is used to clarify a beer. To remove the cloudiness. Does nothing to flavor/smell.

 

[MalFet]

Crystal 90L and 50L both contain some amount of fermentables, but also a significant amount of unfermentable complex sugars. This excellent thread goes into some of the numbers.

Crystal malts (particularly the lighter ones) also have some standard starches that can be converted during the course of a mash. They do not, however, have much diastatic power: there are no enzymes to convert the starches into simpler (and thus more fermentable) sugars. If you had added a pound or so of base malt, its enzymes would have been able to convert the crystal malt, but as it stands there was probably little to no enzymatic activity going on in what you did here. Sorry to say it, but your hour long steep likely didn't do much. It certainly wasn't a mash.

It sounds like your rinsing procedure might have netted you a few more points than the recipe designers intended, so an OG of 1.060 on a target of 1.057 sounds relatively dead on. The extra points were likely unfermentable.

As for the Irish Moss in extract brews...I'm surprised Palmer says that. Certainly Irish Moss doesn't have as significant an effect in an extract beer as it does in a mashed beer, but it should still coagulate some protein. Even if it does nothing, it shouldn't hurt.

 

[jaycount]

Crystal has no diastatic power and so no conversion really takes place without the presence of a base malt. There was a really good article out there about steeping vs mashing and specialty grains vs. base grains and how it all comes together. Of course I can't find it now

Sounds like a great beer and it's coming along quite fine.

Edit: Damnitt, Mal, beat me to it

 

[Baldy_Beer_Brewery]

I re-read some of Palmer's book today and he notes Irish Moss is not for use in extracts.

I don't recall reading that, but then I didn't read much of that book at all. There are a lot of things in that book that many people don't agree with and I am certainly not a fan. Consider Palmer's thoughts as his opinion and consider other's in order to come up with your own.

Like most things in home brewing, it is debatable if Irish moss is needed at all. That being said, I use it in everything save for wheats and such. I feel it helps the beer clear a bit faster, but not really any more than a bit more time will do on its own.

 

[RighteousFire]

Soaking the grains in 155-165F water for 30 minutes (might even be too much) and stirring them every so often is plenty. I also rinsed the grains through a colander after steeping them.

Your process looks like nothing is wrong with it at all. Keep on doing what you do.

Irish Moss will have no effect on your beer other than helping to clarify the final product. Keep using it as you do.

 

[Hoosier-Brewer]

I don't recall reading that, but then I didn't read much of that book at all. There are a lot of things in that book that many people don't agree with and I am certainly not a fan. Consider Palmer's thoughts as his opinion and consider other's in order to come up with your own.

Like most things in home brewing, it is debatable if Irish moss is needed at all. That being said, I use it in everything save for wheats and such. I feel it helps the beer clear a bit faster, but not really any more than a bit more time will do on its own.

Page 281 Table 34, he notes in the comments of the Irish Moss listing, "A good clarifier for almost all worts, though not recommended for high-adjunct or extract based worts."

I use a combination of information from books to mostly this sight to direct my process. I will continue to use the IM at this time.


Thanks to everyone for the help, guidance and answers. I love having a place to go to talk brewing and this seems to be the best place for it.

 

[jescholler]

I then added about 3lb of LME and 7oz of BrewVint (corn sugar) for a slight boost. And proceeded brewing as normal. The OG came out at 1.060, the recipe OG says 1.048, not including the extra sugar which should raise the gravity to 1.057 per BrewMate.

7oz of corn sugar shouldn't have given you 9 gravity points. Corn sugar yields about 37 gravity points per pound dissolved to make 1 gallon. If you made 5 gallons, you would divide by 5 to give you 7.4 points per pound. Since you only used 7oz, that would give you 7.4*(7/16) = 3.2 points.

Like others said, it's possible that you extracted more sugars from the crystal than the recipe planned. Other sources of error could be that you ended up with a smaller volume than the recipe planned, or if you did a partial boil, your sugars weren't fully dissolved in the top off water. That's a somewhat common mistake for new brewers.

 

[Hoosier-Brewer]

I left out one step in my first post. I did a late LME addition of the balance, 3.5lb at 15 minutes left in the boil.

jescholler - I just started using BrewMate and maybe I input something incorrectly or like you said, maybe I didn't get it mixed well before the reading. I did a 3.5 gallon boil, added 1 gallon to the fermentor, added the wort and topped off to 5.25 gallons. I use a 6.5g Better Bottle and cap it and shake the crap out of it for about 2-3 minutes before I thief a sample for a reading. of course I hope I got a little more out of the grains. I can't wait to try this one in a few weeks.