Brew on Premise Laws

[ReverseApacheMaster]

We were talking about this in another thread a while back. Obviously it is legal at a federal level for a BOP to operate. It seems to me though that all the restrictions they place on you regarding who can do what while making the beer aren't actually legal restrictions. They aren't in the text of the law anywhere..but rather are TTB guidelines which aren't enforceable. They even say they are guidelines here...http://www.ttb.gov/beer/beer-faqs.shtml#b1. Any thoughts?

WTF? Aren't enforceable??

Seriously, please stop. Some idiot who is too cheap or lazy to seek out actual legal advice is going to believe your nonsense and get themselves into a whole mess of trouble. Agencies are empowered with rulemaking powers by several statutes. Their rulemaking power creates "law" even though it isn't enacted by a legislature.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

exactly. thats where we got our info.

so being that wv really has no license that governs our industry we felt that conforming to ttb guidelines would be the way to go just in case the law were to step in and demand to see what we are doing.

we did not want to press the issue with wvabc since the laws are about as clear as mud. hell the way they classify beer is just ridiculous."nonintoxicating beer" is .5% to 6%.

Yeah, and why obtain legal advice and make sure you are conforming to the law. They will probably give you a passed because you took a guess.

 

[Phunhog]

WTF? Aren't enforceable??

Seriously, please stop. Some idiot who is too cheap or lazy to seek out actual legal advice is going to believe your nonsense and get themselves into a whole mess of trouble. Agencies are empowered with rulemaking powers by several statutes. Their rulemaking power creates "law" even though it isn't enacted by a legislature.

I am sorry...maybe you can shed some light on the difference between federal law and a federal agency guidleline? Is there any sort of legal difference like the difference between an infraction, misdemeanor, and felony? I wasn't aware that a gov't agency can just make up their own laws and regulations without some sort of legislation.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I wasn't aware that a gov't agency can just make up their own laws and regulations without some sort of legislation.

Which is a good reason why you shouldn't be going around telling other people how the law works.

 

[Phunhog]

Which is a good reason why you shouldn't be going around telling other people how the law works.

I am just sharing what is on the TTB site. They state the "guidelines" for operating a BOP, which aren't mentioned in the CFR (Code of Federal Regulations). Since it seems like you have a law background can you please explain the difference between a federal law and a federal agency guideline. I have a hard believing that a law enacted by Congress carries the same weight as an agency guideline.

 

[1MountainManbrewsupply]

Yeah, and why obtain legal advice and make sure you are conforming to the law. They will probably give you a passed because you took a guess.

please read back through the thread bud. we actually had our attorney contact wvabc's legal dept. we would not guess at something such as this.why go through all the hell and expense of starting a retail business if the state is just going to shut it down?

our atty told us to go by those guidelines and defer to that rather than blaze our own trail. and i actually like it that way. the customer gets a better understanding of the process and can feel good about homebrewing and not feel like it's rocket science and if they bail on it than we have already collected his money for the class time and brew ingredients(grain bill) and we finish the process and keep his beer.

havent had anyone do that yet though.

 

[evilleadam]

Update for this thread. Looks like it is going to be WAY too much red tape to get a BOP law approved in Indiana. doing the next best thing. A brew supply shop that also sells produced beers for pick up via growlers. I will have experienced home brewers compete to have their product produced(by the winner) and sold at the location. This would be considered an employee and is 100% legal in the state.

We would then split the proceeds of any sales on site.

Follow my journey and talk home brew @YouBrew via facebook

Is there any update on this ? The only YouBrew on Facebook appears to be in California. I am very interested in the idea of opening a BOP, but I too live in Indiana. I did not realize the red tape would be so thick!