Brew Masters on Discovery w/ Sam Calagione

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MrInternet said:
Well, something that really annoys me is being quoted out of context. Since your mis-interpretation of what I said and how I said it directly impacts the validity of your assertion that I was 'telling you what to do', it would appear that this ain't Burger King, and neither of us are getting it our way. :)



But many people aren't "discussing" ... they are doing things like claiming their home brew is better than DFH... or that DFH beer is "bad"... or that the show is "formulaic" and therefore not worth watching. These are all qualitative assessments of tangential aspects of the actual discussion that should be going on.

I couldn't give a crap about Sam C's ego... I'm not even a big DFH fan. What I AM a big fan of, as should everyone on this board should be, is that all of a sudden MAINSTREAM AMERICA is being exposed to craft beer in a big way. A major cable channel has put their significant weight and expertise towards a subject and industry we all love... yeah, there's a formula. It would be like me telling you that you're being 'formulaic' because "you just heated, mashed, boiled, and pitched yeast... just like you did on EVERY other brew you've ever done... sheesh". It's called doing what works, and this format resonates with viewers. The thing is, even if the form bothers you, the substance of the show should be appreciated by all of us... I'm not saying you have to watch it. I'm not even saying you have to like it all that much. I just can't believe that this thing we do, that we have to constantly try to explain, justify, put into layman's terms, etc, for the people in our lives... this thing is finally on a mainstream cable channel. It's getting some validation, and it's only going to mean more homebrewers... how is that possibly a bad thing? Why are people nitpicking and assuming Sam's a jerk or a clown, that his beer sucks... that they could make better beer... that they lied on camera just to score points in an industry that's ALREADY treating them very well.

This discussion is, for many people in it, merely about finding the worst in it and ignoring the rest. I suppose someone could make the same assertion about me and not be totally incorrect, given the amount of effort I'm putting into trying to get people to see that they're acting unreasonably.

I love the show... I think it's amazing that this is on TV. Out of the 14 or so DFH beers I've tried, I only like about 4 of them for regular consumption... I enjoyed tasting them all though. They were ALL very well-made beers, but they definitely cater to off-centered tastes, as they say. I think it's a truly American story of someone going where there passions lead them, and doing what they love doing and being successful at it.

Do I think the format's cheesy? Sure... but it works for the general populace. Do I think DFH is the best brewery in the world? No, not even in my top 5. Do I think Sam's a goofball? Of course he is, you'd have to be to maintain your sanity in that industry... the other choice is to join the "5 percent".

I apologize if I've offended, but this would be a far more productive discussion if everyone took 5 seconds just to reflect how awesome it is that this show even exists, like it or not. :)



Yes, using the "quote feature" ... you should look into it.



*sigh*

No, that's not what I was saying... I was merely trying to argue that there's a certain sense in which all of us shoudl be glad this is one the air, and be "fans", even if the format is annoying to us or we don't particularly like DFH beers. I'm an Administrator at the Internet's largest invertebrate keeper's forum, and there is a similar situation right now with a show called "Bugging Out" ... it's an internet dealer named Ken who's dealing with a similar "crisis of the week". All of us are behind the show and voting for it to continue, even though many of us really don't care for it... why? Because not in a hundred years did anyone in that hobby think that a show about it would end up on mainstream TV. I've spent the last decade trying to explain to people how tarantulas aren't going to kill them, no all snakes aren't venomous, why spiders aren't going to lay eggs in their ears at night, and how on earth these "life threatening creatures" can be kept safely at home... well, here's a show that introduces many of these concepts in the "easily palatable formula" that the viewing public is used to.

I guess that's where I'm coming from... there are 100 ways this show could be done. Yes, they could give tons of super-geeky minutiae that would be interesting to US, but would probably mean a weekly viewership of 10,000... as opposed to this format which draws in significantly more. We should all be happy this is getting produced AT ALL... whether or not we actually LIKE the show should be almost secondary. We should all appreciate the fact that this show is even on.

Shouldn't we?

Again, apologies at any offense. In my defense, I was only KINDA telling you what to do. :)
Click to expand...

Dude I agree. Have any of you watched cooking shows? They are pretty much ALL forulaic. Last I checked, brewing is cooking. At least Sam doesn't make Bud every episode. I could do without the "problem" in every episode though, if there were like three (or one) significant problems throughout the whole season it would be okay. But every week bores me and makes me not care.
 
For a precursor to this reality show, and perhaps a more educational slant on the US brewing industry, check out the documentary Beer Wars. It is on demand via Netflix and I am sure other sources. I have to believe that this movie, done last year, was the catalyst for the Discovery show, and I have personally learned much from it about the way beer is moved and marketed around this country. Website link: http://beerwarsmovie.com/
 
How could some people be complaining about the problems the brewery faces? Maybe you guys are all perfect and every batch goes exactly as planned, and that's why I don't get it. Or maybe I don't get it because I never worked in a brewery. The problems DFH faces on the show are,to me at least, real problems that a brewery would face. The buildup and the "discovery channel" drama are corny and sometimes sad, but deadlines, bottling line problems, and quality assurance problems are something I'm sure all brewerys deal with. Personally, I enjoy seeing the problems. Makes me feel like I'm not the only one who faces problems in the process.

One thing I do agree with is the fact that we should all be happy that there is a show on tv showcasing our hobby, or obsession. Maybe BMC's numbers will take a hit and make some room for the quality beer. Whether you agree with the brewery or not, that dude was doing exactly whatt were all doing 20 years ago. And like him and the brewery or not, he's making a living doing it now. We all have brewerys we like or dislike, but the craft beer business as a whole will probably benefit from the show. Hopefully next season a different brewery will be showcased, and new haters will voice their hatred for THAT brewery. I guess there's no way to please everybody, but I'm just happy there's a brewing show(g'head, say DFH infomercial, gfy) to watch.
 
After seeing similar format shows on the same network, I am under the impression that many "catastrophes" are not as big as they are made out to be.
 
TheWeeb said:
For a precursor to this reality show, and perhaps a more educational slant on the US brewing industry, check out the documentary Beer Wars. It is on demand via Netflix and I am sure other sources. I have to believe that this movie, done last year, was the catalyst for the Discovery show, and I have personally learned much from it about the way beer is moved and marketed around this country. Website link: http://beerwarsmovie.com/
Click to expand...

Just added it to my Netflix instant queue so I can watch it on my Wii. Thanks for that!!
 
TheWeeb said:
For a precursor to this reality show, and perhaps a more educational slant on the US brewing industry, check out the documentary Beer Wars. It is on demand via Netflix and I am sure other sources. I have to believe that this movie, done last year, was the catalyst for the Discovery show, and I have personally learned much from it about the way beer is moved and marketed around this country. Website link: http://beerwarsmovie.com/
Click to expand...

I kind of doubt that Beer Wars was a catalyst for this show. If I am not mistaken they had the treehouse in Beer Wars and they filmed it being put up for this show. So at least part of this show was shot before Beer Wars was.
 
Am I the only person here who thinks that this show gets better every week? They seem to have gotten a little more into the technicalities of brewing this episode. I actually just tried their Squall IPA it's bottle conditioned and supposedly the hoppiest beer they make. Honestly I never had their normal 90 minute IPA but this beer was fantastic. Highly recommend it.
 
MrInternet said:
Well, something that really annoys me is being quoted out of context. Since your mis-interpretation of what I said and how I said it directly impacts the validity of your assertion that I was 'telling you what to do', it would appear that this ain't Burger King, and neither of us are getting it our way. :)



But many people aren't "discussing" ... they are doing things like claiming their home brew is better than DFH... or that DFH beer is "bad"... or that the show is "formulaic" and therefore not worth watching. These are all qualitative assessments of tangential aspects of the actual discussion that should be going on.

I couldn't give a crap about Sam C's ego... I'm not even a big DFH fan. What I AM a big fan of, as should everyone on this board should be, is that all of a sudden MAINSTREAM AMERICA is being exposed to craft beer in a big way. A major cable channel has put their significant weight and expertise towards a subject and industry we all love... yeah, there's a formula. It would be like me telling you that you're being 'formulaic' because "you just heated, mashed, boiled, and pitched yeast... just like you did on EVERY other brew you've ever done... sheesh". It's called doing what works, and this format resonates with viewers. The thing is, even if the form bothers you, the substance of the show should be appreciated by all of us... I'm not saying you have to watch it. I'm not even saying you have to like it all that much. I just can't believe that this thing we do, that we have to constantly try to explain, justify, put into layman's terms, etc, for the people in our lives... this thing is finally on a mainstream cable channel. It's getting some validation, and it's only going to mean more homebrewers... how is that possibly a bad thing? Why are people nitpicking and assuming Sam's a jerk or a clown, that his beer sucks... that they could make better beer... that they lied on camera just to score points in an industry that's ALREADY treating them very well.

This discussion is, for many people in it, merely about finding the worst in it and ignoring the rest. I suppose someone could make the same assertion about me and not be totally incorrect, given the amount of effort I'm putting into trying to get people to see that they're acting unreasonably.

I love the show... I think it's amazing that this is on TV. Out of the 14 or so DFH beers I've tried, I only like about 4 of them for regular consumption... I enjoyed tasting them all though. They were ALL very well-made beers, but they definitely cater to off-centered tastes, as they say. I think it's a truly American story of someone going where there passions lead them, and doing what they love doing and being successful at it.

Do I think the format's cheesy? Sure... but it works for the general populace. Do I think DFH is the best brewery in the world? No, not even in my top 5. Do I think Sam's a goofball? Of course he is, you'd have to be to maintain your sanity in that industry... the other choice is to join the "5 percent".

I apologize if I've offended, but this would be a far more productive discussion if everyone took 5 seconds just to reflect how awesome it is that this show even exists, like it or not. :)



Yes, using the "quote feature" ... you should look into it.



*sigh*

No, that's not what I was saying... I was merely trying to argue that there's a certain sense in which all of us shoudl be glad this is one the air, and be "fans", even if the format is annoying to us or we don't particularly like DFH beers. I'm an Administrator at the Internet's largest invertebrate keeper's forum, and there is a similar situation right now with a show called "Bugging Out" ... it's an internet dealer named Ken who's dealing with a similar "crisis of the week". All of us are behind the show and voting for it to continue, even though many of us really don't care for it... why? Because not in a hundred years did anyone in that hobby think that a show about it would end up on mainstream TV. I've spent the last decade trying to explain to people how tarantulas aren't going to kill them, no all snakes aren't venomous, why spiders aren't going to lay eggs in their ears at night, and how on earth these "life threatening creatures" can be kept safely at home... well, here's a show that introduces many of these concepts in the "easily palatable formula" that the viewing public is used to.

I guess that's where I'm coming from... there are 100 ways this show could be done. Yes, they could give tons of super-geeky minutiae that would be interesting to US, but would probably mean a weekly viewership of 10,000... as opposed to this format which draws in significantly more. We should all be happy this is getting produced AT ALL... whether or not we actually LIKE the show should be almost secondary. We should all appreciate the fact that this show is even on.

Shouldn't we?

Again, apologies at any offense. In my defense, I was only KINDA telling you what to do. :)
Click to expand...

I could care less about this shows success or failure and Sam or brewers in general. Just like they could care less about me. I will continue to watch the show because they have gotten better and it's entertainment value exceeds not watching it. I like motorcycles, but I don't fawn over every show that is about 2 wheels.

I have never been a beer aficionado. Drank lots of lite beer in college and on Sundays during football season. I don't like most micro-breweries, buy beer rarely (usually when company is coming), and I never go to bars. I could care less how big (I'd rather have a quality community) the homebrew / microbrew community is, as long as I have access to carboys, grain, hops, yeast, and water and a few brains to pick.

I am into homebrew PRIMARILY because I do not like how brewers / distillers (makers of one of the great scourges of our society) use my money and their political clout to attempt to control domestic policy (especially the policies that I don't agree with). Caring for my health somewhat; I would prefer to drink something that I control 100% using wholesome ingredients and have a finished product that is healthier for me. I know my motivations are the minority around here - but it doesn't disqualify me from having a perspective and opinion about a stupid show on basic cable.
 
If I could just throw in a thought about the actual production of the show for a minute...

As someone who has created several TV pilots, got several to air, and dealt with the corporate structure that enjoys turning out formulaic crap year after year, I have to say Brewmasters is an incredibly well made show. It is shot, edited, and posted at a very high caliber for cable TV. Looks like the cameras are 5DmkII's and the level of work they put into their graphics package is one of the better ones I've seen on any network this year.

Sam is a perfect protagonist for a cable tv show. The reason people (esp on this thread) enjoy bashing him is the same reason he is TV gold. Good looking, good with people, cocky entrepreneur, that likes to laugh and doesn't take himself seriously. I personally really like Sam. I'm an entrepreneur myself, and I can identify with a lot of the stories and principles in his book.

But whether you like Sam or not doesn't really matter. I personally haven't enjoyed many of the DFH beers I've tried over the years, but I respect Sam and DFH for building a company from nothing and raising the overall awareness of craft brews in the US.

It doesn't matter to me if you like the show or not. But I do think it would be a shame for a show like this to fail. I've had so many conversations in the last month about craft brews by people that saw brewmasters and are now curious about every other little brewery that's out there.

Is the drama fake? Most likely. Is it following a standard Discovery Channel formula? For sure. But I think they are doing an awesome job inside that box, and I hope the show gets picked up for a second season. What you choose to tune into and support really does shape the type of programming that you will see in the future. I would love to see more Brewmasters from Discovery and less American Pickers...

But hey, that's just my vote. You are entitled to yours...
 
BeerWars said:
I am into homebrew PRIMARILY because I do not like how brewers / distillers (makers of one of the great scourges of our society) use my money and their political clout to attempt to control domestic policy (especially the policies that I don't agree with). Caring for my health somewhat; I would prefer to drink something that I control 100% using wholesome ingredients and have a finished product that is healthier for me. I know my motivations are the minority around here - but it doesn't disqualify me from having a perspective and opinion about a stupid show on basic cable.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to sound like a pessimist, just more of a realist. Those 100% wholesome ingredients...are you growing and malting your own barley, from your own seed bank? I think Monsanto/Cargill are adding more political clout than the beer industry.

I agree in controlling what you are doing and not supporting the political machine, while keeping it feasible. I think making my own helps, I just think saying is it "100% wholesome", if the ingredients are not, is being naive.
 
mkwasnie said:
I don't mean to sound like a pessimist, just more of a realist. Those 100% wholesome ingredients...are you growing and malting your own barley, from your own seed bank? I think Monsanto/Cargill are adding more political clout than the beer industry.

I agree in controlling what you are doing and not supporting the political machine, while keeping it feasible. I think making my own helps, I just think saying is it "100% wholesome", if the ingredients are not, is being naive.
Click to expand...

no kidding. the farming industry is messed up.
 
mkwasnie said:
I don't mean to sound like a pessimist, just more of a realist. Those 100% wholesome ingredients...are you growing and malting your own barley, from your own seed bank? I think Monsanto/Cargill are adding more political clout than the beer industry.

I agree in controlling what you are doing and not supporting the political machine, while keeping it feasible. I think making my own helps, I just think saying is it "100% wholesome", if the ingredients are not, is being naive.
Click to expand...

You mean the same ingredients that all beers use? I am not malting my own home grown barley. But I am getting the best quality grain that I can buy, sifting them, picking out bad grains, and crushing my own. Detail that NO commercial brewery is going through.

Your definition of wholesomeness is unobtainable. Let's say that you have your very own seedbank, you did not create those seeds; which means they came from someone and some plant before you (origins and ancestry unknown) and most likely tainted due to cross farm pollination by different genetics (perhaps even Monsanto's). And even an organic farmer would not know the complete supply chain of his soil / fertilizer / compost due to similar externalities. Not to mention the energy and equipment required to harvest and malt comes from sources with equally large lobbies or unsavory workers.

So while you may not agree that my ingredients are "100%" wholesome based on your impossible definition. I contend they are 100% wholesome in terms of quality and healthfulness. Which are the only things that I care about.
 
BeerWars said:
You mean the same ingredients that all beers use? I am not malting my own home grown barley. But I am getting the best quality grain that I can buy, sifting them, picking out bad grains, and crushing my own. Detail that NO commercial brewery is going through.
Click to expand...

commercial breweries don't crush their own grain!?

you still haven't proven that because you use briess malt and miller uses briess malt, yours is somewhat "more wholesome"
 
motobrewer said:
commercial breweries don't crush their own grain!?

you still haven't proven that because you use briess malt and miller uses briess malt, yours is somewhat "more wholesome"
Click to expand...

It's more wholesome because he said so, what is there not to get?!? I also don't understand. BeerWars has mentioned his beer being more healthy as well. Most homebrew contains a lot more calories that anything BMC. What makes it healthier?
 
motobrewer said:
commercial breweries don't crush their own grain!?

you still haven't proven that because you use briess malt and miller uses briess malt, yours is somewhat "more wholesome"
Click to expand...

You are in the wrong hobby it you really think that light stabelized hop extract is more wholesome than whole leaf cascades.

Nice troll.
 
BeerWars said:
He specifically mentioned BMC.
Miller?
Budweiser?
Coors?

Nice troll.
Click to expand...

you said nice troll twice. and i haven't been talking about BMC.

you came on here and specifically said your beer is "more wholesome and healthful" than commercial beers because you "pick out bad grains" (whatever the h*ll that means, lol) and "crush your own"
 
BeerWars said:
You are in the wrong hobby it you really think that light stabelized hop extract is more wholesome than whole leaf cascades.

Nice troll.
Click to expand...

While Bud/Miller/Coors may use stabilized hob extract, few to no micro/craft breweries do. So yes, I don't doubt your beer is more wholesome than the light American pilsners that most of America drinks, but that's kind of a given. I don't need to tell you the sirloin burgers I make at home are more wholesome than McDonalds.

And while you can claim your beer is more 'wholesome' than craft beer, you're really splitting hairs at this point. And while I'm not a moderator, I can tell you that this thread is getting quite a bit off topic and not very civil. Toning it down wouldn't be a bad idea.
 
First off, I would like to thank myself for ruining this thread.

Secondly, I was just pointing out that not supporting commercial breweries, because they contribute to political gluttony sounds like a poor argument when buying grain would support that also.
 

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