Brew Bucket by SS Brewing Technologies

[shoengine]

Do you use their 90 degree blow elbow for this? I’m contemplating the actual pressure transfer kit. I guess the main benefit there is the relief valve preventing total destruction.

I had odds and ends so I didn't buy the kit, but I am using the barbed 90• elbow. I personally don't think the clamps on the BB will hold enough PSI to use the PRV on the fitting. I'm going to experiment on it when I clean it out today, since I finished my transfer.

You can see a little pool of beer below the cone, which I think leaked out past the ball valve o-ring.

I can also see the value of having a valve on the top as well as the bottom as I can seal both sides since I don't have quick disconnects on the gas side.

 

[Kealia]

Yes, it is.

I use it for a blowoff tube during fermentation, then I cap it off during cold crash to avoid suck back (2nd pic).
Then when it is time to keg, I attach my CO2 line to the other end of the tubing.

 

[NewJersey]

Chronical lid for the win.

View attachment 612995

It can be done cheaper, but about $130 gives me more headspace and I can now blowoff directly from the lid without a cludgey airlock-to-blowoff setup with a rubber cork, a 3in hole to dry hop from, and a pressure transfer setup.

i was gonna buy a bucket, but didn't because i wanna do closed transfers and didn't wanna modify the bucket lid. i went with https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Ultimate-Sanke-Keg-Cross-Fermenter-Kit.html and i already had an empty 1/4 sanke.
i like your solution a lot too tho! (and may do it someday. easier cleaning has me intrigued)

 

[shoengine]

i was gonna buy a bucket, but didn't because i wanna do closed transfers and didn't wanna modify the bucket lid. i went with https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Ultimate-Sanke-Keg-Cross-Fermenter-Kit.html and i already had an empty 1/4 sanke.
i like your solution a lot too tho! (and may do it someday. easier cleaning has me intrigued)

It is interesting that you posted this. I am going to be getting an old sanke keg from a friend so I can have a big fermenter for wine.

As far as the bucket goes, I probably would have just modified the lid again (as @Kealia did above) because it is relatively trivial, but I wanted the extra headspace and the huge 3in flanged hole at the top will come in quite handy.

 

[Brooothru]

I had odds and ends so I didn't buy the kit, but I am using the barbed 90• elbow. I personally don't think the clamps on the BB will hold enough PSI to use the PRV on the fitting. I'm going to experiment on it when I clean it out today, since I finished my transfer.

View attachment 613569

You can see a little pool of beer below the cone, which I think leaked out past the ball valve o-ring.

I can also see the value of having a valve on the top as well as the bottom as I can seal both sides since I don't have quick disconnects on the gas side.

I do a very similar pressure transfer, but instead of using a CO2 bottle for pressure I bleed off the pressure in a pre-sanitized and CO2 purged keg to 2-2 1/2 PSI and then run a gas (white) fitting and hose from the keg to the barbed TC fitting on the top of the fermenter. Then just open the ball valve on the fermenter and watch the beer transfer (closed) under perfect 2-2 1/2 PSI without worrying about over-pressurizing the SS tank.

I've used this method on both Brew Buckets and Chronicals and it works great every time. You can even transfer "uphill" from the ball valve to the liquid fitting on the Corny keg like you're doing in your picture.

BTW, I have an SS fermenter lid that I drilled and fitted with a 2-2 1/2 PSI PRV to prevent any over-pressures as a precaution. Cheap insurance but I've never needed it. Just set your keg pressure to something less than that and it'll be impossible to over-pressurize the fermenter during transfer.

Brooo Brother

 

[Brooothru]

Yes, it is.

I use it for a blowoff tube during fermentation, then I cap it off during cold crash to avoid suck back (2nd pic).
Then when it is time to keg, I attach my CO2 line to the other end of the tubing.View attachment 613567View attachment 613570

Kealia,

Risky proposition capping the blow off fitting. In a partially filled brew bucket you could cause it to collapse when you crash chill. In fact, I'm surprised you can even get the lid off the fermenter due to the vacuum, unless you release the pressure first, thereby sucking in alot of O2 (or have an internal leak somewhere in the system).

Either way you risk oxidizing the beer at the very least, and crushing your fermenter at the very worst. If you're worried about suck back, just take a partially inflated party balloon with CO2 from your tank and attach it to the barb fitting on the 90 blow off port. That way you avoid oxidation and avoid collapsing your fermenter.

The SS Brew Buckets and Chronicals are extremely unforgiving to any over-pressures. They are even LESS forgiving of under-pressures, as are just about every pressure vessel.

Brooo Brother

 

[shoengine]

I do a very similar pressure transfer, but instead of using a CO2 bottle for pressure I bleed off the pressure in a pre-sanitized and CO2 purged keg to 2-2 1/2 PSI and then run a gas (white) fitting and hose from the keg to the barbed TC fitting on the top of the fermenter. Then just open the ball valve on the fermenter and watch the beer transfer (closed) under perfect 2-2 1/2 PSI without worrying about over-pressurizing the SS tank.

I've used this method on both Brew Buckets and Chronicals and it works great every time. You can even transfer "uphill" from the ball valve to the liquid fitting on the Corny keg like you're doing in your picture.

BTW, I have an SS fermenter lid that I drilled and fitted with a 2-2 1/2 PSI PRV to prevent any over-pressures as a precaution. Cheap insurance but I've never needed it. Just set your keg pressure to something less than that and it'll be impossible to over-pressurize the fermenter during transfer.

Brooo Brother

For your method, are you using two vessels or three?

 

[Kealia]

Well, that is..........interesting and concerning. I won't take the fact that it hasn't happened yet as any indication that it won't happen in the future.
I can easily switch to a balloon as I never thought the pressure for the vacuum could cause a collapse.

 

[Brooothru]

For your method, are you using two vessels or three?

Two vessels: fermenter (containing green, uncarbonated beer) and keg (cleaned, sanitized and purged with CO2). The 'beer' post on the keg is connected directly to the Brew Bucket ball valve (or sampling valve on Chronical). The 'gas' post on the keg is connected to the 'pressurizing fitting' tri-clamp on the top of the fermenter lid (or blow-off fitting).

The motive force in this case is the pressure inside the keg. Normally after cleaning/sanitizing/CO2 purging, I leave anywhere from 10-15 PSI head pressure (CO2) in my kegs. When it comes time to transfer from fermenter to keg, I reduce the pre-charge to 2~2 1/2 PSI, connect the hoses and open the ball valve (or butterfly valve on the Chronicals). The beer will flow from the fermenter to the keg, even "uphill", once the initial siphon has started since it is a closed pressurized system. The beer flowing from the fermenter displaces the CO2 in the keg which passes into the fermenter which pushes more beer into the keg until all of the beer ends up in the keg. The beer doesn't flow back into the fermenter since the gas pick up is above the level of the beer.

Neat system and process.

Brooo Brother

 

[Brooothru]

Two vessels: fermenter (containing green, uncarbonated beer) and keg (cleaned, sanitized and purged with CO2). The 'beer' post on the keg is connected directly to the Brew Bucket ball valve (or sampling valve on Chronical). The 'gas' post on the keg is connected to the 'pressurizing fitting' tri-clamp on the top of the fermenter lid (or blow-off fitting).

The motive force in this case is the pressure inside the keg. Normally after cleaning/sanitizing/CO2 purging, I leave anywhere from 10-15 PSI head pressure (CO2) in my kegs. When it comes time to transfer from fermenter to keg, I reduce the pre-charge to 2~2 1/2 PSI, connect the hoses and open the ball valve (or butterfly valve on the Chronicals). The beer will flow from the fermenter to the keg, even "uphill", once the initial siphon has started since it is a closed pressurized system. The beer flowing from the fermenter displaces the CO2 in the keg which passes into the fermenter which pushes more beer into the keg until all of the beer ends up in the keg. The beer doesn't flow back into the fermenter since the gas pick up is above the level of the beer.

Neat system and process.

Brooo Brother

I should also point out that the objective is to fill the keg with 5 gallons of beer, but the fermenter may have more than 5 gallons. So it's possible to set up a continuous flow between the two vessels if the level of the beer rises to the pick up for the 'gas' port of the keg.

What I do is put the keg on a bathroom scale and watch as the weight increases during the transfer. Since beer is 95% water and water weighs 8.3# per gallon, then 5 gallons should weigh approximately 41.3#, give or take. An empty keg (plus transfer lines and fittings) has a tare weight of 5.8#, so my 'nearly full' weight is somewhere around 47 lbs. This leaves the space above the weld seam (approx. an inch or so) for head pressure to force carbonate and dispense beer.

Not exact, but close enough.

Brooo Brother

 

[Wagon_6]

Two vessels: fermenter (containing green, uncarbonated beer) and keg (cleaned, sanitized and purged with CO2). The 'beer' post on the keg is connected directly to the Brew Bucket ball valve (or sampling valve on Chronical). The 'gas' post on the keg is connected to the 'pressurizing fitting' tri-clamp on the top of the fermenter lid (or blow-off fitting).

The motive force in this case is the pressure inside the keg. Normally after cleaning/sanitizing/CO2 purging, I leave anywhere from 10-15 PSI head pressure (CO2) in my kegs. When it comes time to transfer from fermenter to keg, I reduce the pre-charge to 2~2 1/2 PSI, connect the hoses and open the ball valve (or butterfly valve on the Chronicals). The beer will flow from the fermenter to the keg, even "uphill", once the initial siphon has started since it is a closed pressurized system. The beer flowing from the fermenter displaces the CO2 in the keg which passes into the fermenter which pushes more beer into the keg until all of the beer ends up in the keg. The beer doesn't flow back into the fermenter since the gas pick up is above the level of the beer.

Neat system and process.

Brooo Brother

That’s pretty cool! I’ve been researching closed transfer heavily recently.

 

[Brooothru]

Well, that is..........interesting and concerning. I won't take the fact that it hasn't happened yet as any indication that it won't happen in the future.
I can easily switch to a balloon as I never thought the pressure for the vacuum could cause a collapse.

I remember a picture of an airliner being refueled by a fuel truck. The transfer rates of these trucks can be more than 1,000 pounds of fuel in a matter of minutes, or 600 gallons in a very short time. The fuel transfer pumps are emptying the tanker under pressure to the aircraft, creating a significant void (vacuum) in the tank.

The tanker in the picture had a failure of the negative pressure relief valve so the internal pressure of the tank (vacuum) could not equalize with atmospheric pressure. So the weight of the air surrounding the tanker exceeded the 'weight' of the air inside the tank which was 'holding up' the atmospheric weight. This resulted in the tanker (capable of holding several thousands gallons internally) to crumple like a used can of Coors Lite, after having transferred only a fraction of its load.

Think of it this way. An unsealed empty fermenter still has the 'weight' of its internal volume of air to support the external weight of the atmosphere (one bar). Drain it completely without equalizing pressure and you'd now have two bar of pressure trying to crush your 'empty Coors Lite can.' The suck back is a graphic display of this, with a column of liquid being raised from your container of sanitizer up through the blow off tube to enter the partial vacuum of your fermenter.

FWIW, vessels designed to contain pressure on the inside, whether it's the pressure from 15 PSI of CO2 gas or the 'pressure' from the weight of 5 gallons of liquid beer, are unusually poor at withstanding pressure from the outside. The tanker could withstand the pressure of thousands of pounds of fuel held internally but failed catastrophically under the pressure of 14.7 pounds per square inch of the atmosphere. In the same way, a fermenter capable of withstanding say 15 PSI of external pressure (roughly one bar) can fail catastrophically under a vacuum of negative 2~4 PSI (minus 1/4 bar). By extension a 2-2 1/2 PSI limited Brew Bucket might fail at minus 1/2 PSI.

That ain't much differential!

Brooo Brother