Brett Anomalus?

[skibb]

I'm having trouble figuring some things out about this particular brett strain. I have read that Pizza Port's Mo Betta Bretta uses it and that it imparts pineapple like flavors. Other than a few references like this, I can't find any more information out about this strain. In Wild Ales the author claims that Brett Claussenii is actually a particular type of Brett Anomalus. Further, I've noticed that neither White Labs or Wyeast carries a Brett A. culture anymore.

So my question is, is Brett C. actually the Brett used in Mo Betta Bretta, or is it another strain of Brett A? If it is its own strain how the hell can I get a culture of it? Would Brett C. be a substitute for A., e.i. does it impart the same types of flavors found in Mo Betta?

 

[Inhiding]

I'm having trouble figuring some things out about this particular brett strain. I have read that Pizza Port's Mo Betta Bretta uses it and that it imparts pineapple like flavors. Other than a few references like this, I can't find any more information out about this strain. In Wild Ales the author claims that Brett Claussenii is actually a particular type of Brett Anomalus. Further, I've noticed that neither White Labs or Wyeast carries a Brett A. culture anymore.

So my question is, is Brett C. actually the Brett used in Mo Betta Bretta, or is it another strain of Brett A? If it is its own strain how the hell can I get a culture of it? Would Brett C. be a substitute for A., e.i. does it impart the same types of flavors found in Mo Betta?

I have a culture of Brett A, and yes it is more subdued than Brett B. Haven't tried it compared to Brett C but I hear that they are similar. I have used it as a primary fermenter, and then in a porter fermented with WLP23 and that was fantastic! I love this strain of Brett.

 

[Barc]

Where did you get the Brett A culture?

 

[Inhiding]

Where did you get the Brett A culture?

I picked it up from the friend of someone in a different homebrew club. Sounds funny but that is the truth.

I pitched the pint jar full i received into a flanders red recipe as a primary yeast and then added in 4 pounds of dates. 4 pounds is a lot of dates! I would not recommend that amount, in fact i would use about 1 pound next time if at all. The beer before the dates were added was quite good, not so much after. To many hot alcohols, thin body, so I tossed the beer after about 8 months. No redeeming qualities and I needed the carboy space. I then saved the yeast cake from the primary and ended up with 1/2 a growler full, and I am in the process of building it back up so I can give some out to B-Dub!!

 

[Barc]

Well, if you're in the mood to give some out, I'd love to get some. I've not seen it anywhere.

 

[Oldsock]

Wyeast used to carry Brett A up until ~3 years ago (the description even said something like "by way of San Diego"). I used it for a few primary ferments, and secondary on a big stout. It was fine (never got pineapple flavors), but I actually like the Brett C from White Labs much better (easier to work with, more complex fruity flavors etc...).

I've never gotten pineapple from Brett C either, but I've heard that others have. Must be some combination of pitching rate, oxygen, temperature, pH etc... that I haven't gotten yet

 

[skibb]

Sorry to resurrect but I sent this question a while ago to Chad Yakobson and he replied...

So a couple years ago, Wyeats used to have a B. anomalus strain. They pulled it (I have no clue why.. I want to ask now..) and have recently released the WY-PC5151 B. clussenii. There is no such thing as B. clussenii. Only B. bruxellensis and B. anomalus. So even the B. lambicus the yeast companies offer is a B. bruxellensis. When Brettanomyces was first being classified there were new strains being cultured that had different characteristics so they gave them new strains names. Over time and now with PCR there is only two even though even with in the singe cultivar of B. bruxellensis there is huge genetic variation, much greater then found in Saccharomyces. So the yeast companies for copy right reasons are using old strain nomenclature. Think of claussenii and lambicus as a name instead of the genus species type.

So both the yeast companies carry B. anomalus. Yes I'm pretty sure that the WLP 645 B. claussenii is the same B. anomalus that Tomme once used. Jeff Sparrow simply referred to it by the actual scientific nomenclature instead of the chosen name of the yeast company. I personally have not found the WLP to be super pineapple. I also have not given it the time to age out. I've also had mixed results with the White labs B. claussenii. The Wyeast was pretty fruity but I wouldn't say overly tropical fruit. I believe the stronger tropical type fruit aromas comes from these two strains after a very long time like 9+ months. It has to do with the slow metabolism of alcohol into acetic acid. The level is so low that the acid along with a few of the esters which also form slowly give the tropical fruit sensation and just a tickle of acidity. Acetic acid in very small amounts is actually kind of a sweet acid, were lactic is strong and sharp.

The ability to get these characteristics to some extent depends on your malt bill and brewing techniques. Mo Betta had some lactic acid in it and the bretts ferment slightly cleaner at lower pH's. Balancing the acids in the beer while keeping it clean and add a tartness which emphasizes the thoughts of tropical fruits. Remember that tasting is also psychological.. and people hear one thing (it has pineapple aromas) and run with it though they have never tasted this beer. By all accounts from other brewers who have had it, Mo Betta had Brett and Lacto in it..

I just randomly stumpled on this email searching for other things - I don't know why I didn't post it right after he replied to me.

 

[SenorPepe]

Good read, thanks.

 

[kerosin]

Let me cite the following book about the taxonomy of Brettanomyces/Dekkera: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780444521491#ancp1

There are five accepted species in the Brettanomyces/Dekkera family:

- Dekkera anomala (aka B. anomalus, aka B. claussenii)
- Dekkera bruxellensis (aka B. lambicus, aka B. bruxellensis)
- B. custersianus
- B. naardenensis
- B. nanus

There is a B. claussenii. Sorry to disagree with Chad Yakobson here. It is an accepted synonym for D. anomala. For the taxonomy, B. anomalus and B. clausenii are the same. The same holds true for B. bruxellensis and B. lambicus. They are synonyms and officially classified as D. bruxellensis. Although the different strains are in the same species, they do not inevitably have to behave the same. I guess it is undisputed that B. lambicus and B. bruxellensis do not have the same flavor profile. Although both strains are in the same specie.

Compare it with the specie of Saccharomyces cerevisiae. There are a lot of S. cerevisiae strains available for brewing but most of them have a different flavor profile. All humans are in the same specie, most of us are different... We all belong to the species Homo sapiens, however we all have different names. Think of our names as synonyms for the Homo sapiens specie.

Chad Yakobson is right, at the beginning of the discovery of Brettanomyces, people who discovered a strain named it them self. This lead to a huge list of different strains (all in the cited book). Then came the taxonomy people and compared the different strains and observed that some of them are basically the same. They classified them in the same specie.

If you are interested in the book, write me a PM with your email address. And sorry to disagree with Chad Yakobson here. I really like his work about the whole Brettanomyces stuff.

Cheers, Sam

 

[Oldsock]

Researching for the book I'm writing, the word I got from Wyeast was that their Brett anomalus was pulled because it wasn't actually a Brux strain (which makes it unlikely it was re-branded as their new Brett C).

Also FYI Mo Betta Bretta did have some of the wort soured with Lacto during the boil and mixed with the rest of the wort. I brewed a 100% Brett Trois/Drie IPA yesterday and added 1/2 lb of acid malt near the end of the mash for a similar effect.

 

[jaapie]

Let me cite the following book about the taxonomy of Brettanomyces/Dekkera: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780444521491#ancp1

There are five accepted species in the Brettanomyces/Dekkera family:

- Dekkera anomala (aka B. anomalus, aka B. claussenii)
- Dekkera bruxellensis (aka B. lambicus, aka B. bruxellensis)
- B. custersianus
- B. naardenensis
- B. nanus

There is a B. claussenii. Sorry to disagree with Chad Yakobson here. It is an accepted synonym for D. anomala. For the taxonomy, B. anomalus and B. clausenii are the same. The same holds true for B. bruxellensis and B. lambicus. They are synonyms and officially classified as D. bruxellensis. Although the different strains are in the same species, they do not inevitably have to behave the same. I guess it is undisputed that B. lambicus and B. bruxellensis do not have the same flavor profile. Although both strains are in the same specie.

Compare it with the specie of Saccharomyces cerevisiae. There are a lot of S. cerevisiae strains available for brewing but most of them have a different flavor profile. All humans are in the same specie, most of us are different... We all belong to the species Homo sapiens, however we all have different names. Think of our names as synonyms for the Homo sapiens specie.

Chad Yakobson is right, at the beginning of the discovery of Brettanomyces, people who discovered a strain named it them self. This lead to a huge list of different strains (all in the cited book). Then came the taxonomy people and compared the different strains and observed that some of them are basically the same. They classified them in the same specie.

If you are interested in the book, write me a PM with your email address. And sorry to disagree with Chad Yakobson here. I really like his work about the whole Brettanomyces stuff.

Cheers, Sam

Regarding the naming, Sam is right. Nomenclature of micro-organisms is a mess. Some of them are classified as different but are ~99% identical, and others are classified as the same species, but show a larger divergence. And then there are different names, that get changed, and old ones still are being used in recent publications etc. Tread careful.

 

[tkm]

Anybody ever use any of the other three strains? - B. custersianus. - B. naardenensis. - B. nanus

Found this thread: http://www.babblebelt.com/newboard/thread.html?tid=1108752780&th=1269562907&pg=2&tpg=1&add=1

Anything else?

 

[Oldsock]

Anybody ever use any of the other three strains? - B. custersianus. - B. naardenensis. - B. nanus

Found this thread: http://www.babblebelt.com/newboard/thread.html?tid=1108752780&th=1269562907&pg=2&tpg=1&add=1

Anything else?

The Al B run East Coast Yeast lab has strains of each and has been adding them to his Bugfarm blends. I have one of them at work in a barrel, but with so many other microbes it is hard to judge its contribution.