Brand New, Going For My First Run. Seeking Advice!

[jed2009]

Hey everyone! This is my first post here and I have been lurking for a while. I have never done any home brewing but I am going to start up. It looks like a simple introduction would be something like a Hard Cider. So, over the past couple days, I've purchased what I believe to be everything I should need to make my first go-round of Cider, and hopefully go from there. I would like to aim for the 10% range ABV.

Here's my equipment list so far:

5 Gal Food Safe Bucket - $4
5 Gal Bucket Gamma Lid - $6
2x Airlocks w/ Bungs - $6
6x Grommets ⅜” hole - $7
3x Red Star Champagne Yeast - $2.25
1 Auto Siphon 3/8” - $10
5x 1 Ft 5/16” Hose - $3 (.59/ft)
1 Hydrometer - $6
4 oz Yeast Nutrient - $3

For sanitation, I've read somewhere that this will work:
1 Oz Bleach, 5 Gal Water, 1 Oz White Vinegar = Sanitation; 30 sec contact
This is apparently a no-rinse sanitizer, but I don't know about it. Let me know if it should work, or else I can get something real.

Here's my ingredients list for my first batch:

3.5 Gal (Pasteurized?) Natural Cider/Juice
1# Brown Sugar
1# White Cane Sugar
1 8 Oz Can 100% Apple Concentrate
1 5g Packet Red Star Champagne Yeast
.5 TBS Yeast Nutrient

Here's how I am supposing the order will go!

1. Sanitize everything.
2. Dump (slowly) 3.5 Gal Juice/Cider into my 5 Gal bucket.
3. Dump both sugars and concentrate into the mix slowly.
4. Insert the .5 TBS Nutrient.
5. Insert hydrometer into the bucket and take reading.
6. Dump the 5g Champagne Yeast packet into the brew.
7. (Should I stir everything here? Or stir before I insert yeast?)
8. Apply Gamma Seal lid w/ Grommet.
9. Insert airlock and fill 1/3 with water/liqour.
10. Apply airlock cap.
11. Let it sit in a ~65* temperature room for 2-3 weeks.
--- This is where it gets shaky for me...
12. After 2-3 weeks, take jug and move it to tabletop.
13. Get an empty *SECONDARY STORAGE DEVICE I don't have*, sanitize, and use Auto-Siphon to transfer concoction.
14. Place lid on secondary storage device, and let sit.
15. Empty first bucket, clean, let sit for next use.

So, I think I've basically got it down. However, I have heard that letting your brew sit with a lot of extra space (say if my other storage device is a 5 gal bucket as well), it will ruin it. My initial plan was to get a 1 gallon growler and fill it as needed with the siphon from the secondary bucket, which would require 3 to 4 lid-openings, as well as adding more extra "space" each time I empty a gallon. I don't really know what to do here, so any advice would be lovely.

Other than that, feel free to point out anything I've missed or you think a beginner would need to hear. I am not in any rush. I'm doing it to hopefully get into a new hobby. I want to do everything right, have fun, and hopefully turn out some cheap booze with a decent flavor and strong kick.

Cheers!

 

[phug]

You could let it sit longer in the first bucket and then siphon directly to sanitized bottles i you want it still, or buy one more bucket and add priming sugar, rack onto that, and the mix and rack into your carbing bottles.


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[jed2009]

Phug - Would I be able to transfer it into another 5 gallon bucket? I have read that having too much headspace after the primary fermenting is finished is bad for your concoction.

 

[phug]

I wouldn't transfer to another bucket for any longer than it takes to get it into bottles


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[bernardsmith]

I would get rid of the bleach and use K-meta to sanitize. If you don't have a scale then use Campden tablets. The advantage of using K-meta (Potassium meta bi-sulphate) is that you can add this before bottling and it will inhibit oxidation. Bleach can react with corks, for example and produce problems that you may be unable to remove from your winery.
Head room (space between the surface of the liquid and the lid is useful during the primary fermentation. Air is good for the yeast, and you may want to aerate the cider during this time, by stirring a couple of times each day. When the specific gravity drops close to 1.005 (may take 3 or 4 days. May take longer. May finish faster) you should rack the cider from the bucket into a carboy with no headroom (or more accurately, headroom of about 1 inch) and seal the jug with a drilled bung and airlock. By all means , half fill your airlock with "liquor" but it's probably best to drink that liquor and use water to half fill the airlock. All the airlock is designed to do is allow the carbon dioxide to escape and prevent the air from entering. Water performs that job well enough (Compare the S bend under your sink or at the bottom of your toilet bowl).
You say that you don't have a secondary vessel. That may be true. But what did you carry your apple juice home in? If it was a container then if you plan to allow the fermented cider to age 3 or 4 weeks the container will be OK to use as your secondary. If you plan on aging your cider 6 months or so then storage in a vessel not designed to store alcohol may not be so very wise (a) the plastic may allow too much oxygen to bleed into the container and (b) the plastic in contact with alcohol may leach chemicals that are unhealthy.
Last point: your apple juice may have a specific gravity of about 1.045 per gallon. One pound of sugar will increase the gravity of ONE gallon by 1.040. A gravity of 1.045 (plus or minus) is equivalent to a potential ABV (alcohol by volume ) of about 5.25%.. Is that the kick you are looking for?

 

[JimRausch]

There was a post somewhere on the forum in the recent past.
Bleach plus acid(like vinegar) yields chlorine gas. Deadly poison that will ruin your lungs.
Plus, any time you use bleach as a sanitizer you need to really rinse a ton with plain water to get that smell and taste out. And if you realize that there are a million posts about off-flavors being produced by just using chlorinated city water(a bandaid plastic taste), why would you use it?
Spring for the $8 and get a bottle of starsan that will last you years.

 

[jed2009]

Phug - Thanks for clarifying.

Bernard - Thanks for your lengthy response! I definitely won't be using bleach, then. Good info about headspace for primary and secondary fermentation, that clears some stuff up. Your idea with "what did you carry the apple juice in?" really dinged a lightbulb for me... D'oh! I have 4 gallons of Musselman Cider. I can definitely use those. I don't plan to age for more than necessary, maybe 4-6 weeks tops, and then consume within a month more than likely. I'll most likely be handing it out and hopefully sharing with others, so it should go fast. Sound okay to use the jugs? I am having trouble understanding your interpretation of increasing the gravity and stuff with the sugar. So one # sugar would increase one gallon from 1.045 to 2.085? I would prefer a kick higher than 5%; I was hoping for the 10+% range. Should I go with 4 pounds of sugar, plus the 1 pound brown and 1 can of concentrate?

Jim - Thanks for your reply. Good point about the chlorine gas and chlorine water - yuck! I won't be using bleach, and will be getting star-san or something similar. Thanks for clearing it up, that's why I asked the pro's!

 

[Renoun]

Sound okay to use the jugs?

That will be fine as will any growlers you happen to have around.

I am having trouble understanding your interpretation of increasing the gravity and stuff with the sugar. So one # sugar would increase one gallon from 1.045 to 2.085? I would prefer a kick higher than 5%; I was hoping for the 10+% range. Should I go with 4 pounds of sugar, plus the 1 pound brown and 1 can of concentrate?

Actually a pound of sugar would take a gallon of 1.050 cider to 1.090 or three gallons of 1.050 cider to 1.063. I think you should try making cider that is in the 6%-8.5% ABV range for your first batches. Ciders with more alcohol aren't as palatable young and you will likely be impatient and want to start drinking it rather than letting it age. If you'd prefer drinkable cider to rocket fuel don't add much more than a pound of sugar to this batch.

Good point about the chlorine gas and chlorine water - yuck! I won't be using bleach, and will be getting star-san or something similar.

I can definitely recommend StarSan, it's easy to use and effective. Don't think that you need to make it 5gal. at a time though, 6ml per gallon works too. I use a 10ml oral dosing syringe to measure smaller amounts, occasionally I'll make just enough (1.5ml if you were paying attention) to refill my quart spray bottle.

Finally If you have easy access to other yeast I'd suggest avoiding champagne yeast in favor of a dry ale yeast. I prefer Nottingham but there are many options.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Starsan, greatest no-rinse sanitizer on the planet IMHO.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/star-san.html
No need to make a full 5 gallons, I mix up a 1/2 batch, fill a spray bottle & use the rest for sanitization, the spray bottle allows you to mist a coating on surfaces without actually submersing. Save the leftover Starsan in a clean plastic water jug, it'll stay viable for about a month as long as you keep the lid on. Give it a good shake before using it again.
Regards, GF.

Renoun, you beat me to the punch.

 

[jed2009]

Renoun, Gratus - Thanks for the posts! I really don't mind rocket fuel - I drink bottom shelf straight liqour on the regular - but I'll keep it mild for the first batch as you suggest.

I have another sanitizing question. Before I go buy some StarSan - My girlfriend brought home some QDII Sanitizer from work. She works at an ice cream shop. It's food contact sanitizer. The brand is DeVere and the ingredients are Octyl decyl Dimethyl Ammonium Chloride 3%, Didecyl Dimethyl Ammonium Chloride 1.5%, Dioctyl Dimethyl Ammonium Chloride 1.5%, Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride 4%... Since a food place uses this stuff to sanitize, what do you guys think? Would this work? I see it says Chloride and Chlorine sounds like a big enemy, but I don't know jack about this stuff. Should I use this free stuff or just get some StarSan?

 

[jed2009]

I ended up going a different route from that QDII just because I haven't heard anything about it and couldn't find anything on the internet. I have no officially made my first batch and it's sitting in a room, bubbling away! It's actually not bubbling at all but hopefully it will someday soon. I will update with my progress!

One question. For the 4 jugs I will be using to put the Cider in after it's fermented for 4 weeks - do you just put a drop of StarSan in those, fill them 1/4 the way with water, shake it around, and dump it out? Then they are ready to go?

My beginning measurements were:
4 Gallons Cider: 1.050 - 6.5%
Cider w/ 2 C White sugar, 1 C Brown sugar, 12 oz Apple Concentrate - 1.070 - 9.1%

 

[moreb33rplz]

op enthusiasm is contagious. brew on!

 

[Renoun]

One question. For the 4 jugs I will be using to put the Cider in after it's fermented for 4 weeks - do you just put a drop of StarSan in those, fill them 1/4 the way with water, shake it around, and dump it out? Then they are ready to go?

Ideally you would have saved the StarSan you just mixed up in one of them for reuse. You don't need to fill them all the way to sanitize them, filling them with a cup or so and shaking them vigorously is all you need but make sure to leave the cap loose enough to sanitize the cap/threads/mouth too. You just need to start with clean vessels and keep them wet with StarSan for thirty seconds to a minute. They are sanitized only while they are still wet, if they dry out they need to be re-sanitized.

 

[jed2009]

Awesome, thanks Renoun! I cleaned them out with water and am letting them dry. I will sanitize them when I am ready to transfer in about 4 weeks!

 

[jed2009]

Well, yesterday I checked up on my brew and the airlock was finally bubbling! I know that really isn't a big deal, but it's still awesome to see!

 

[Nogud247]

Well, yesterday I checked up on my brew and the airlock was finally bubbling! I know that really isn't a big deal, but it's still awesome to see!

That is a huge deal. If you read my first cider thread you'll see that I asked about a million stupid questions. It's exciting to know you'll drink something you made yourself. My first cider is cold in my fridge and tomorrow I'll take out the first bottle and have a drink. You'll be doing the same in no time (but it'll feel like forever ). :cheers:

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Well, yesterday I checked up on my brew and the airlock was finally bubbling! I know that really isn't a big deal, but it's still awesome to see!

Pretty soon you'll be sniffing the airlocks, we all do.
Ain't this an awesome hobby!?!
Regards, GF.

 

[jed2009]

Thanks for stopping in, guys! Yeah, it feels like a huge deal, but I read somewhere that you can make a whole batch and it might not even bubble once?! Gratus - I am going to go sniff the airlock right now! It is indeed an awesome hobby.

I just smelled it!!! I actually smelled a hint of BOOZE in there! Crazy! This is awesome.

 

[TheNewGuy2]

Yeah I remember when I first sniffed it, only a few weeks ago but it was an epic feeling!

 

[jed2009]

Do y'all think that this stuff needs 4 weeks? I added 2 lbs and 1 cup of sugar, plus 1 12 oz can of concentrate. It's a decent amount, but compared to some others it's not too much either. I've read that 2 weeks will suffice, but I'm not sure. I plan on dishing it out into four 1-gallon jugs, so 3 of the jugs will continue to sit for another 2 or so weeks anyways. Thoughts?

 

[gratus fermentatio]

I like to age my ciders/graffs/etc... At least 6 months.
Wait till they're clear enough to read a newspaper thru & go from there. If there's a thick layer of lees (sediment), you might want to rack to secondary. Take a SG reading & drink the sample.
Regards, GF.

 

[TheNewGuy2]

Does clearing that far leave enough suspended yeast to bottle carb?

 

[jed2009]

I like to age my ciders/graffs/etc... At least 6 months.
Wait till they're clear enough to read a newspaper thru & go from there. If there's a thick layer of lees (sediment), you might want to rack to secondary. Take a SG reading & drink the sample.
Regards, GF.

Thanks for the info. Will I be able to remove the lid and check it, then replace the lid and keep it fermenting? I am a bit confused with how that CO2 blanket works. It sounds like it only creates that blanket for a while and then it just sits in there. So if you remove the lid, does it disappear, and can it be rebuilt?

 

[jed2009]

W00T!!! I couldn't wait to check, so I looked up in another thread if it's okay to remove the lid and it sounds like it's fine as long as you be careful and try to keep the CO2 layer in place. So, I checked it, it's cleared up a bit but not crystal clear by any means.

However, I weighed it, and...

0.994!!!!!!

Compared to my initial weigh of 1.070, that means 9.1% - (-0.7)% = 9.8% ABV. That sound right? That's according to the little chart that came with my hydrometer. Does this mean I would be able to bottle it up and start drinking?! It doesn't get much lighter than that, my hydrometer almost capsized and went under for good. Only about 1/2" left on it. This is crazy cool!

Here is a picture

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8n32gDUCrspT09OdkYzX1JVSW8/view?usp=sharing

I'm not concerned with the look; clear would be cool and all but if it tastes good that's all that matters. After reading, it doesn't sound like there's a huge benefit or reason to clear it up other than aesthetics. Should I continue to let it sit, or get to drinking?!

 

[Nogud247]

W00T!!! I couldn't wait to check, so I looked up in another thread if it's okay to remove the lid and it sounds like it's fine as long as you be careful and try to keep the CO2 layer in place. So, I checked it, it's cleared up a bit but not crystal clear by any means.

However, I weighed it, and...

0.994!!!!!!

Compared to my initial weigh of 1.070, that means 9.1% - (-0.7)% = 9.8% ABV. That sound right? That's according to the little chart that came with my hydrometer. Does this mean I would be able to bottle it up and start drinking?! It doesn't get much lighter than that, my hydrometer almost capsized and went under for good. Only about 1/2" left on it. This is crazy cool!

Here is a picture

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8n32gDUCrspT09OdkYzX1JVSW8/view?usp=sharing

I'm not concerned with the look; clear would be cool and all but if it tastes good that's all that matters. After reading, it doesn't sound like there's a huge benefit or reason to clear it up other than aesthetics. Should I continue to let it sit, or get to drinking?!

If you like the taste by all means enjoy it.

 

[Renoun]

Should I continue to let it sit, or get to drinking?!

Set a couple of bottles aside to age so you have some idea of how age affects your cider. If you don't have a bottle capper yet plastic soda bottles or flip top bottles (ie. go buy a couple of bottles of Grolsch) will work too if properly sanatized.

 

[jed2009]

Well guys, I did it. I sanitized my auto siphon and let 'er rip into the four original cider jugs (that were also sanitized). It filled them almost perfectly. After cleaning everything, I finally poured a glass, and WOW! Really, I am pretty impressed. I tasted a few drops here and there throughout testing, and thought it was going to be bitter and sour, but I was definitely wrong. This stuff is awesome, and at 9%, I can taste almost no booze. Granted, I could drink Old Crow or something similar straight and not give a rats, but still, that's awesome! Great first success. Thanks a lot to everyone who has helped me out!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8n32gDUCrspanZQN2h4RkQzalU/view?usp=sharing

 

[ericbw]

Well guys, I did it. I sanitized my auto siphon and let 'er rip into the four original cider jugs (that were also sanitized). It filled them almost perfectly. After cleaning everything, I finally poured a glass, and WOW! Really, I am pretty impressed. I tasted a few drops here and there throughout testing, and thought it was going to be bitter and sour, but I was definitely wrong. This stuff is awesome, and at 9%, I can taste almost no booze. Granted, I could drink Old Crow or something similar straight and not give a rats, but still, that's awesome! Great first success. Thanks a lot to everyone who has helped me out!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8n32gDUCrspanZQN2h4RkQzalU/view?usp=sharing

I didn't read carefully enough, but did you add something to stabilize it after fermentation? If not, keep an eye on those bottles just to be sure there is no more fermentation. If you open it and get a hiss, you might still be getting gas, which could break the bottle. Probably best to store them in the fridge anyway to drink them.

One other suggestion about your first post: you said you would pour the juice slowly, etc. No need at that point. Cider is already oxidized (the reason it's brown), and the yeast need oxygen. So splash it into the fermenter, stir the sugar in like crazy, and then you're getting more oxygen to help the yeast.

Sounds like it worked out very well!

 

[Roadie]

If you want it clear next time add some pectic enzyme. They sell 3 gallon carboys if you need to secondary for a while.

 

[MarkKF]

If you want it clear next time add some pectic enzyme. They sell 3 gallon carboys if you need to secondary for a while.

Anyone have an opinion on liquid pectin enzyme. I've only used powdered and was at the home brew store today and they only had liquid. 5 drops per gal. compared to 1/2 tsp.?

 

[jed2009]

Thanks for the responses. Ericbw - That's great info! Yes, I tried to do it slowly because I thought oxygen was bad, but I will go nuts next time! I did get a hiss the first one or two times, but I will continue to keep an eye on them.

 

[jed2009]

After about one week in the fridge, one of my 1-gallon jugs has REALLY cleared up. The ones sitting at room temp, not so much. The "cold crash" really helped clear up the one in the fridge.