Botulism potential?

[cactusgarrett]

Hoping to get some thoughts from people knowledgeable on the subject, as this isn't the standard newb "does this fermented beer have botulism?" question:

About a year ago I brewed a spontaneous capture lambic-style (5gal, partial mash, aged hops). At the time, it seemed to take off okay, with what looked like a moderate krausen about 10 days post-brew. I did not pre-acidify, nor did I take any gravity readings until a month ago. In 11 months it went from 1.046 to 1.044 and expectedly the sample was undrinkable. It DID have a floral smell/flavor similar to a manual captured sample I did a couple years ago (which I added WY1056 because that, also, wouldn't ferment).

At that point (early October) I added WY3711 to get it fermented, and today it clocked in at 1.005. The taste hasn't changed much from last month, and is pretty undrinkable (but better than when it was sweet wort): i can't put my finger on it, if it's too bitter, or what. Despite having read plenty of stories about "save it and wait" beers surprisingly turning out down the road, I can't shake the threat of botulism from a wort that didn't ferment for a year. Aside from the initial would-be-krausen, there was no other activity making me believe anything went wrong, so my sanitation must have been on-point (no floaties, no fuzz, no pellicle, nothing).

Does anyone have thoughts as to whether or not this beer is worth bottling and saving? As of now, it's Schrodinger's Beer and I'm strongly leaning towards dumping it to be safe.

 

[Dinadan]

I am not knowledgeable on the subject, being a newbie. Just me, but if wort did not turn into drinkable beer in a year, then yes, I would probably dump it. It is one thing to let beer age for a while to get better, but if it is no good after a year I question whether more aging will make it good, botulism or not.

 

[marc1]

Hoping to get some thoughts from people knowledgeable on the subject, as this isn't the standard newb "does this fermented beer have botulism?" question:

About a year ago I brewed a spontaneous capture lambic-style (5gal, partial mash, aged hops). At the time, it seemed to take off okay, with what looked like a moderate krausen about 10 days post-brew. I did not pre-acidify, nor did I take any gravity readings until a month ago. In 11 months it went from 1.046 to 1.044 and expectedly the sample was undrinkable. It DID have a floral smell/flavor similar to a manual captured sample I did a couple years ago (which I added WY1056 because that, also, wouldn't ferment).

At that point (early October) I added WY3711 to get it fermented, and today it clocked in at 1.005. The taste hasn't changed much from last month, and is pretty undrinkable (but better than when it was sweet wort): i can't put my finger on it, if it's too bitter, or what. Despite having read plenty of stories about "save it and wait" beers surprisingly turning out down the road, I can't shake the threat of botulism from a wort that didn't ferment for a year. Aside from the initial would-be-krausen, there was no other activity making me believe anything went wrong, so my sanitation must have been on-point (no floaties, no fuzz, no pellicle, nothing).

Does anyone have thoughts as to whether or not this beer is worth bottling and saving? As of now, it's Schrodinger's Beer and I'm strongly leaning towards dumping it to be safe.

You've already tasted it! You were concerned that wort that sat around for almost a year not fermenting might be full of deadly poison, so you drank some? Then fermented it out and drank more?

Given that you are alive, and moreso didn't get sick, I'd say it's unlikely to have grown botulism. It won't grow now that it's fermented.

But it tastes awful and thinking about it skeeves you out, so dumping seems like a good option.

Also, seems very odd that it only fermented 2 points in almost a year from wild inoculation. Are you sure about the measurements? Did you check pH when it got down to 1.044?

Finally, you're sanitation must be pretty good if nothing ate all the sugars in that wort over all that time!

 

[cactusgarrett]

Given that you are alive, and moreso didn't get sick, I'd say it's unlikely to have grown botulism. It won't grow now that it's fermented.

I tasted, I didn't ingest it. From my understanding of botulism, it could have previously grown in the presence of a higher pH (I didn't pre acidify nor take any ready at any point) and lack of alcohol. The presence of a low pH and alcohol now won't aid in the matter if it's already produced.

 

[Vale71]

Just dump it.

 

[marc1]

I tasted, I didn't ingest it. From my understanding of botulism, it could have previously grown in the presence of a higher pH (I didn't pre acidify nor take any ready at any point) and lack of alcohol. The presence of a low pH and alcohol now won't aid in the matter if it's already produced.

Botulinum toxin is horrendously poisonous. Giving it a taste certainly causes some ingestion and is not advisable if there is reasonable belief that there were conditions present for botulism to grow.

You're OK though, thankfully.

If it were me I would dump the beer.

 

[Senormac]

You've already tasted it! You were concerned that wort that sat around for almost a year not fermenting might be full of deadly poison, so you drank some? Then fermented it out and drank more?

Exactly !! If botulism even gets on a taste bud..... you are done. You have it, and unless you get the anti toxin, you are dead. A family member got it in 2003 and it was a horrible 7 month recovery.... thank you Jesus !! Complete paralization. Complete atrophy of all muscles from non use. Lungs only work because of having a tracheotomy and living on a ventilator till your nerve endings can grow back.

Anyways, sorry for the morbid memory. You DON'T have it.