Bottling unfinished saison?

[bethebrew]

I made a 10 gallon batch of a dark(ish) saison a couple of weeks ago. S.G. 1.049, split into two carboys. One a smackpack of 3711 the other a big pitch of 3726. Not sure where either is at finish wise. Guessing pretty close. The 3711 much slower to start but been strong and 75F into the finish. The 3726 fast at first, peaked at 82 F then dropped in temp and ferment strength but has been glugging along. Started both at 67.

Anyway, is there a safe point to bottle with a low enough F.G. and not have to worry about bottle bombs? Say I read 1.006 for example on the 3711 that seems to have more potential to finish the lowest F.G. Will I be risking flying glass?

 

[BGBC]

Wait a few days and take a second measurement to make sure it's stable, that's the only way you'll know for sure. As everyone says, 3711 is a beast. I've used it a few times and they've all finished between 1.002-1.004

 

[NewWestBrewer]

Make sure they get as close to the recipe FG as possible to avoid. Take one reading and then take another a couple of days later to make sure its done. If it finishes high adjust your priming sugar.

 

[glick]

^^^^^This

 

[bethebrew]

Wait a few days and take a second measurement to make sure it's stable, that's the only way you'll know for sure. As everyone says, 3711 is a beast. I've used it a few times and they've all finished between 1.002-1.004

I was wanting to try to bottle it and avoid priming sugar. Maybe that's a dumb idea to begin with! Risky shall we say in terms of over or under carbonation, and perhaps not helping the flavor at all either versus "normal" allowing to complete, then adding priming sugar.

 

[BGBC]

I was wanting to try to bottle it and avoid priming sugar. Maybe that's a dumb idea to begin with! Risky shall we say in terms of over or under carbonation, and perhaps not helping the flavor at all either versus "normal" allowing to complete, then adding priming sugar.

Ah, got it. Personally I think it would be risky and I'm not sure what the potential reward would be.

Are you bottling with any bugs? If you were, then you'd want to take the final grav into consideration when deciding whether or not to add priming sugar, and if so, how much.

 

[bethebrew]

Ah, got it. Personally I think it would be risky and I'm not sure what the potential reward would be.

Are you bottling with any bugs? If you were, then you'd want to take the final grav into consideration when deciding whether or not to add priming sugar, and if so, how much.

No bugs. Yeah no potential reward other than time and seeing how it goes. So if it's 1.006, and i add no sugar, will I get bottle bombs assuming it ends up at 1.003?

 

[BGBC]

No bugs. Yeah no potential reward other than time and seeing how it goes. So if it's 1.006, and i add no sugar, will I get bottle bombs assuming it ends up at 1.003?

4 oz of priming sugar will probably add about 2 gravity points to a 5 gallon batch. So a 3 point difference might be overcarbed, but probably wouldn't lead to bombs.

However, it's a big assumption that it will go from 1.006-1.003 without any add'l sugar. It might be done at 1.006 or it might drop to 1.000, no way of knowing. So you're risking flat beer or bottle bombs. Or you might get lucky and the beer does what you want it to.

I'd say wait the extra week to let it bottom out and add the priming sugar before bottling.

 

[eastoak]

why do you want to avoid priming sugar?

 

[bethebrew]

4 oz of priming sugar will probably add about 2 gravity points to a 5 gallon batch. So a 3 point difference might be overcarbed, but probably wouldn't lead to bombs.

However, it's a big assumption that it will go from 1.006-1.003 without any add'l sugar. It might be done at 1.006 or it might drop to 1.000, no way of knowing. So you're risking flat beer or bottle bombs. Or you might get lucky and the beer does what you want it to.

I'd say wait the extra week to let it bottom out and add the priming sugar before bottling.

Good advice bro. I see you do a lot of saisons. I will trust you on this one!

Thanks.

 

[bethebrew]

why do you want to avoid priming sugar?

no real reason, and will likely let it sit instead. just wonderin' aloud...

 

[BGBC]

Good advice bro. I see you do a lot of saisons. I will trust you on this one!

Thanks.

I'd give the same advice regardless of style.

 

[bethebrew]

I'd give the same advice regardless of style.

Finally took a gravity reading and was surprised at how high the 3726 is. 1.014. The 3711 1.010. So obviously I am nowhere close to being done. Took a heating mat and stuck it between the two boxed carboys and threw a comforter over the entire thing. Put the mat on its side don't think it should overheat. Will check again in a week.

 

[eastoak]

Finally took a gravity reading and was surprised at how high the 3726 is. 1.014. The 3711 1.010. So obviously I am nowhere close to being done. Took a heating mat and stuck it between the two boxed carboys and threw a comforter over the entire thing. Put the mat on its side don't think it should overheat. Will check again in a week.

nothing wrong with what you are doing but 3711 does not need heat to finish. i ferment that yeast at 65 to 70 and it's always made the best beers. i love that yeast.

 

[bethebrew]

nothing wrong with what you are doing but 3711 does not need heat to finish. i ferment that yeast at 65 to 70 and it's always made the best beers. i love that yeast.

Well to update. The temperatures got probably too high for the 3711 but maybe helped the 3726 finish more. Gravity down 3 pts for the 3726 to 1.011 and down 2 points on the 3711 to 1.009. I really needed far better control with the heating pad. Now going to leave off the pad and let them sit under the comforter in my 70 F room. Check again in a few days.

I am thinking maybe this won't finish any lower based on my mash temperature being high. Recipe supposed to finish at 1.013 but this being saison yeasts I think lower is to be expected.

Flavor wise, the 3711 is a little cleaner and drier and the 3726 more full. I think I prefer the 3711 for drinkability. There really isn't much sweetness left, probably unfermentables.

 

[TNGabe]

No bugs. Yeah no potential reward other than time and seeing how it goes. So if it's 1.006, and i add no sugar, will I get bottle bombs assuming it ends up at 1.003?

No, you'll get a beer with 1.5 volumes of carbonation. .002 drop = 1 vol CO2. You'll also potentially get some of the off flavors that are cleaned up after fermentation. Generally when a brewer want to carbonate without priming, they will krausen the beer - add a percentage of still fermenting beer to finished beer. I have bottled brett beers still to naturally carbonate, but only with a solid idea of what actual FG will be. Even if you aren't sure, as long as you use punted 750s, probably the worst problem you'll have is gushers or flat beer.

 

[bethebrew]

No, you'll get a beer with 1.5 volumes of carbonation. .002 drop = 1 vol CO2. You'll also potentially get some of the off flavors that are cleaned up after fermentation. Generally when a brewer want to carbonate without priming, they will krausen the beer - add a percentage of still fermenting beer to finished beer. I have bottled brett beers still to naturally carbonate, but only with a solid idea of what actual FG will be. Even if you aren't sure, as long as you use punted 750s, probably the worst problem you'll have is gushers or flat beer.

Why hasn't anyone developed a pressure relief valve cap? Maybe they have, and it's called "forced carbonation" in a corny keg with a PRV. Or as you point out, get a bigger stronger bottle.

I like the idea of krausening, it makes for a beer with zero DME. Likely a little better flavor if you can dial in the percentages.

 

[BGBC]

No, you'll get a beer with 1.5 volumes of carbonation. .002 drop = 1 vol CO2.

That doesn't take residual CO2 into consideration though, does it?

I'm still thinking about this as it relates to priming. 4 oz priming sugar in a 5 gal batch should be ~.002 added, but the final vol CO2 would be the residual CO2 plus the CO2 added from bottle priming. So if you're residual CO2 was say 0.9 vol, your final vol CO2 with a .003 drop would be 2.4?

Please feel free to school me if I'm missing something.

 

[TNGabe]

That doesn't take residual CO2 into consideration though, does it? I'm still thinking about this as it relates to priming. 4 oz priming sugar in a 5 gal batch should be ~.002 added, but the final vol CO2 would be the residual CO2 plus the CO2 added from bottle priming. So if you're residual CO2 was say 0.9 vol, your final vol CO2 with a .003 drop would be 2.4? Please feel free to school me if I'm missing something.

I forgot about residual carbonation. I tend to ferment my saisons got enough that there isn't much left. But yes, you'll have 1 vol per .002 drop plus any residual carbonation.

 

[dyqik]

Why hasn't anyone developed a pressure relief valve cap? Maybe they have, and it's called "forced carbonation" in a corny keg with a PRV. Or as you point out, get a bigger stronger bottle.

Pressure relief caps with any kind of consistent pressure would be pretty expensive - ones for pressure barrels (UK homebrew casks) are about $10 a piece and they are a couple of pieces of brass and a rubber sleeve. I guess you could make one for swing-top bottles though, and reuse them.

 

[bethebrew]

oops duplicate

 

[bethebrew]

That doesn't take residual CO2 into consideration though, does it?

I'm still thinking about this as it relates to priming. 4 oz priming sugar in a 5 gal batch should be ~.002 added, but the final vol CO2 would be the residual CO2 plus the CO2 added from bottle priming. So if you're residual CO2 was say 0.9 vol, your final vol CO2 with a .003 drop would be 2.4?

Please feel free to school me if I'm missing something.

And so, assuming my saison has stopped fermenting, and I want 2.4 vols CO2, I should add 7.1 oz. of DME in 5 gals? Or thereabouts?