Bottling a Triple NEIPA

[BasementArtie]

Okay so I've made a Triple 10% New England IPA BIAB as my second brew ever. I know I know I went in at the deep end but go big or go home! I just thought I would keep a record of any change in colour and oxidation on here and if you're interested just follow a long.

Ask me any questions!

The picture is an undercarbed (4days 30mins in the freezer test PET bottle) sample of the beer and my god of it stays like this for 2 weeks with a little more carbonation I'm a happy boy!

 

[Dgallo]

If you practiced proper closed transfers besides the bottling you may have some luck for a month maybe more if you store them all cold once carbed. Good luck

 

[BasementArtie]

If you practiced proper closed transfers besides the bottling you may have some luck for a month maybe more if you store them all cold once carbed. Good luck

I have admit and everyone will soon find out I'm a cheap skate and kegging and closed transfers are out of the question for me .

I know 100% oxygen made its way into the bottles due dry hopping twice in bags and then during bottling despite using a bottling wand. However I'm experimenting with various methods of reducing oxygen exposure. I.e. filling the bottles to very little headspace, using SMB in flake form at either 0.01g or 0.03g 500ml bottle or in a solution adding either 1ml or 3ml of the solution (0.0072g/ml SMB) and a couple of bottles splashed around or purpose with no SMB. In fact this test bottle was a no SMB splash bottle and tasted great.

This batch is a full experimental mode and if get a couple of great bottles I'm happy!

 

[BasementArtie]

No headspace may be effecting the carbing of the bottles! Darker but mostly because of the lighting, taste is there, but come on damn and carb!

 

[Dgallo]

No headspace may be effecting the carbing of the bottles! Darker but mostly because of the lighting, taste is there, but come on damn and carb!

It’s only been 5 days right? RAHAHB!!! One that’s already been carbed Lol

 

[BasementArtie]

It’s only been 5 days right? RAHAHB!!! One that’s already been carbed Lol

5 days for this one then 1 day in the fridge at 4c! Like I said I'm literally taking progress across time flat or carbed, oxidised not oxidised I thought it would interesting.....and I'm thinking it is.

This one was 1ml of the SMB solution and completely flat. There are more to come completely drinkable flat because it actually tastes insanely good. The other PET bottle is getting harder and harder but slowly, weird how the first PET bottle was solid and if I had left it in the fridge for 48hr it defo would have been carbed.

This NEIPA is most definitely 10%, half the glass and I'm foggy!

 

[Kickass]

For color reference, what’s your recipe? I’m not sure if it’s the lighting but the first picture looks like it’s already browned a little. The second looks less brown and more orange-ish. Maybe use same glass, background and lighting to help.

 

[BasementArtie]

For color reference, what’s your recipe? I’m not sure if it’s the lighting but the first picture looks like it’s already browned a little. The second looks less brown and more orange-ish. Maybe use same glass, background and lighting to help.

I'll definitely take the next couple of pictures in similar lighting and background and same glass etc. The first one was also full of yeast and was purposely tried to oxidise when bottling so I'm no surprised, but was surprised it tasted good.

The SRM should roughly be 7.5-7.7.
20L Strike water, 5.5L Dunk Sparge (which went horribly wrong )

3kg Maris Otter
2kg Golden Promise
1kg Flaked Oats
1kg Flaked Barley
0.155g Munich (7L)
0.022g (66L)
0.3kg sugar added to the last 10mins of the boil.

 

[Dgallo]

I’m confused why your purposely trying to oxidize a beer. I mean it’s your time and money, but it baffles me. There is already a plethora of anecdotal and scientific evidence proving oxidation is a real phenomenon especially in heavily hoped beers. There’s also a very popular thread studying the long term effect of oxidation on various bottling methods.

 

[BasementArtie]

I’m confused why your purposely trying to oxidize a beer. I mean it’s your time and money, but it baffles me. There is already a plethora of anecdotal and scientific evidence proving oxidation is a real phenomenon especially in heavily hoped beers. There’s also a very popular thread studying the long term effect of oxidation on various bottling methods.

I'd rather provide my own evidence using my own brewing methods, that way it's easier to account for in the future. I've only shaken two to purposely oxidise them to 1) see how long they last 2) if the effect of SMB delays this effect in various dosages and administration methods.

I'm not disputing oxidation is a known phenomenon, I want understand within my current brewing methodology.

I just prefer to conduct my own research rather than relying on anecdotal "evidence" or scientific evidence which uses very different methodology and equipment than myself.

 

[Dgallo]

Alright. Do you thing man

 

[BasementArtie]

Alright. Do you thing man

Thanks bud I'll keep you and anyone else who's interested updated

 

[Kickass]

Thanks for posting the recipe. And I like the idea of monitoring oxidation with the experiment and controls you’ve set up.

0.155g Munich (7L)
0.022g (66L)

One more question, are these amounts correct? That seems significantly small.

 

[BasementArtie]

Thanks for posting the recipe. And I like the idea of monitoring oxidation with the experiment and controls you’ve set up.



One more question, are these amounts correct? That seems significantly small.

Yeah you've got me there 0.155kg of Munich and 0.022kg of crystal malt.

 

[Beermeister32]

IPA’s are very sensitive to oxidation and darkening. When making an IPA, I try to pull every trick along the way to reduce oxygen. This includes some LODO procedures on the mash including a mash cap and yeast treated low O2 brewing water, under letting the mash, closed transfers to keg, careful CO2 flushing of the kegs during dry hopping and 15 purge cycles of CO2 on the keg. I also naturally carbonate the kegs to pull out any dissolved oxygen and use ascorbic acid to reduce it further.

When I bottle an IPA from a keg the procedure is a bit different, primarily I still add a tablespoon of corn sugar to the keg for O2 reduction, but not enough to carbonate it. I then have a bottling wand hooked to the keg and run it at about 1 lb pressure to fill the bottles. I use Brewers Best carbonation pills currently. I’m not a fan of filling to the top, you will have bottle bombs, give yourself some headspace, about 1” is fine. Flush the headspace with CO2 using a picnic tap and use oxygen absorbing caps. Do not shake your bottles. Carbonation takes time, usually about 3-4 weeks. You can speed this up by using a little squirt of yeast slurry and an eye dropper to each bottle if you think it needs a bit more yeast.

Here is my Pliny the Elder clone. No noticeable oxidation despite all the IPA issues and huge dry hopping load.

 

[InspectorJon]

I’m not a fan of filling to the top, you will have bottle bombs, give yourself some headspace, about 1”

I have been bottling with one quarter to one eighth of an inch headroom for over a year now, no bottle bombs. There is a whole thread about it. I’m not saying you should do that if it makes you uncomfortable, but there doesn’t seem to be any evidence it causes excessive pressure.

 

[Beermeister32]

Lots of ways to make beer...

I suppose if you wanted to fill to the top you could use plastic soda bottles. The carbonation expands the plastic slightly which ends up creating some headspace filled with CO2. Keep them out of the light to stop skunking.

 

[BasementArtie]

Day 10, 1 day in the fridge. This bottle was a 0.01g dry SMB bottle. Again sorry, I'm shite at taking photos! More Carbonation prickliness on the tongue but no hiss and head formation. Colour hasn't changed since my last one IMO. Taste is amazing smell is subtle but amazing I'm hoping this bad boy carbs nicely.

 

[BasementArtie]

More true to the colour

 

[BasementArtie]

So it has been 15 days since bottling, however I put this in the fridge yesterday (14 days) for my friend to have a sample in the sun. This is the second (and last) PET bottle I pulled but the colour looks alright. This is a 3ml solution of SMB (0.0075g/ml) bottle which was crushed to fill to the top but also this one undertook pouring from one bottle to another at the end of bottling (last bottle) as I decide I wanted a pet bottle. I won't be able to catch a poured version of this but wait until Saturday for another as I'll throw a bottle in the fridge on Friday.

I know I know UV will skunk this in a clear plastic bottle but I wanted a natural light photo.

 

[BasementArtie]

Okay I'm a little sad, not through oxidation but through a loss of smell and little loss of flavour...no longer amazing more like really good. However I think I served it too cold (6C) as it warmed it got better. This bottle was 17 days 1 day in the fridge.

 

[BasementArtie]

1ml of SMB (0.0075g per ml)

 

[Kickass]

loss of smell and little loss of flavour

I’m definitely not being snarky or antagonist because I like what you’re doing but these are the first noticeable signs of oxidation.

 

[BasementArtie]

I’m definitely not being snarky or antagonist because I like what you’re doing but these are the first noticeable signs of oxidation.

No it's okay I don't think you're being snarky at all. I think oxidation is happened yes...slowly and more in the shape of flavour loss rather than colour change. However as the bottles aren't full carbed yet they are still being stored at 23C (been for 19 days) which can't be good for them on the oxidation and flavour front. As soon as I get one with a decent level of carb I'll drop them down to 2-3C in the fridge hopefully that'll save the later ones from completely dying an oxidation death.

At least it wasn't brown or purple

 

[Beermeister32]

Sometimes when I’m in the mood for a “lighter” IPA I’ll blend full strength IPA in a glass of a neutral low flavor light beer like Coors Light, half and half.

You might want to try that as a test to get some fizz going in your glass. The hops will still come through, not quite as strong, but still in a good way.

 

[Kickass]

I hear you. At 19 days, I’m guessing all the CO2 that is going to be produced already has been. Now you’re waiting for that CO2 to be absorbed by the beer. That can be done in the fridge now. Get those bad boys in the cool box to preserve the delicate aromas and flavors

 

[BasementArtie]

I hear you. At 19 days, I’m guessing all the CO2 that is going to be produced already has been. Now you’re waiting for that CO2 to be absorbed by the beer. That can be done in the fridge now. Get those bad boys in the cool box to preserve the delicate aromas and flavors

I really don't know I've read a lot recently on this and it may seem like some big beers with tired yeast may take 3months to fully carb (i.e. produce and absorb the CO2) and I can't see the absorption taking that long so may I am still waiting for yeast to fully multiply and eat the available priming sugars who knows however it does slowly seem to be improving in the carbonation regard, so what ever it is it's working but in its own sweet time.

 

[BasementArtie]

Sometimes when I’m in the mood for a “lighter” IPA I’ll blend full strength IPA in a glass of a neutral low flavor light beer like Coors Light, half and half.

You might want to try that as a test to get to get some fizz going in your glass. The hops will still come through, not quite as strong, but still in a good way.

I've heard some people also use sparkling water blended with strong beers, never tried either myself. I'm unlikely to do anything like that with this one either as I purposely wanted to try and brew a 10% thick juicy beast.

 

[Kickass]

That’s a good point with it being a bigger beer. I’d failed to consider that.

 

[Dgallo]

Okay I'm a little sad, not through oxidation but through a loss of smell and little loss of flavour...

That is the effect of oxidation.... muting flavors and aromas. when color changes you have an extreme case of oxidation.

 

[BasementArtie]

That is the effect of oxidation.... muting flavors and aromas. when color changes you have an extreme case of oxidation.

Definitely. It hasn't lost much of its edge bit it is fading. Testing another on Tuesday night so hopefully we'll be at a point of enough carbonation to then drop the temp to slow this oxidation.

Considering I've taken no process precautions to stop oxidation other than bottle from a wand directly from primary and filling to little headspace I am happy with where it is. I've seen so many posts with severe changes after 1-4weeks of bottle a NEIPA.

What I'm thinking of doing is leaving 1 of each trial beers in room temp when I drop the temp of all the others (1x no SMB, 0.01g SMB, 0.03g SMB, 1ml SMB, 3ml SMB) to have these last and see the effects and differences.

 

[BasementArtie]

Hello Oxidation Fans ,

This is a 0.01g SMB bottle day 20 conditioned and 1 day in the fridge. We are so close on the carbonation front (the picture was about 1 min after pouring).Couple more days and I think we are golden!

I think the way I've bottled these (to the top ~3-7mm) means when you pour it, it forms a head in a different way. There is no hiss at all when opening the bottles but once poured the bubbles cloud the drink like Guinness nitrogen does until they slowly reach the top. I've got a feeling the lack of headspace creates more drastic CO2 absorption meaning there is little pressure when opening the bottles. Just my 2 cent.

Well let's get into it! So I was wrong the other day I didn't allow it to warm enough and claimed flavour and aroma loss. So after a day in the fridge at 4C I then took it out left it to heat to 10C and poured and there I got a burst of hops, sweetness and alcohol...maybe a bit of vanilla. The flavour is also there despite changing in profile to being what I can describe as being more rounded (I think I slightly preferred it on day 5). However after thinking about it, it's not oxidation, I was trying green beer at day 5 and I've been comparing it since. I am happy with this beer considering everything with NEIPA's being delicate and not having the necessary kit, being my second brew, it taking an ages to carb and that's before the list of brewday problems . The colour is bright still...happy days with this being day 20 at 23-23.3C conditioning.

 

[Beermeister32]

Looks delicious!

 

[BasementArtie]

As it was in my hand warming. I don't want to sound arrogant or over confident and this is definitely not due to my skill, but my god this is so bloody tasty! I'm in the UK and it's up there with Cloudwater Chubbles and Pomona Action Flash as TIPAs go. Pure beginners luck

 

[Barbarossa]

I don't want to sound arrogant or over confident

Already too late for that.

 

[BasementArtie]

Hello French Open, Euros, Test Cricket Fans,

So we're onto day 24 and 1 day in the fridge and we're looking good. The carb was near perfect I think I'm going to fridge them tomorrow or Monday!

So the beer didn't have much smell because I poured into an English hybrid/Guinness pint glass so I'm probably the only person who does this I poured it into a teku. So it had Simcoe cat piss and I think the verdant yeast produces maybe too much vanilla in smell and flavour but that's besides the point. We are NOT oxidised YET!

Next time I do this recipe 1) not going tipa going 8% dipa 2) no Simcoe 3) probably swap out verdant for Nottingham dry yeast (however this won't be anytime soon).

Let me know your thoughts? I thought I'd be brown and purple by this point? Did I not extract enough hop oils during boil and flame out/ dry hop to produce oxidation? I believe I saw something about using 300g hops per 5gal/19L instead of 600g hops per 5gal/19L reduces oxidations and I was closer to the former.

 

[BasementArtie]

On day 27 I popped them all in the fridge at 1.5C to pressseeeerveeeee these boys, except 5 of which I kept out at room temp for research purposes (1 of each experimental variable).

So today's is a day 27 1 day fridge and the first no SMB bottle since the first one I tried at day 5. The smell of the juice and hops was more present than the 0.01g and 1ml SMB bottles and the flavour is much more vibrant and "fresh" which very much surprised me, however weirdly as I'd expect the opposite again this one had less carbonation.

 

[Dgallo]

Did you ever post your dryhoping rates?

 

[BasementArtie]

Did you ever post your dryhoping rates?

No I didn't actually, good spot . So biotransformation + later dry hopping (4 days till bottling) was 12g/L of citra and Simcoe and the post fermentation alone was 8g/L. I chose 8 because I've been reading that after that you get some diminishing returns.

 

[BasementArtie]

Day 31 and England can't even beat Scotland! So this beer is on which was fridged on day 27 has been in the fridge for 4 days.

So first things first, I went into this quasi-experiment expecting the higher SMB quantities to cause less carbonation (especially with a high percentage ABV). So this bottle was a 0.03g SMB bottle the highest quantity of any variable and as you can see the carb can't be contained by the glass . Can someone explain to me how tired yeast performed better with less O2 and a substance proported to cause yeast stalling?

In smell I was still getting those glorious tropical apricot and vanilla notes however with this bottle I was getting a very minimal undertone of sulfur so maybe the quantity was too high for bottle conditioning. The flavour not too disimilar to the smell tropical juicy thick and tasty which an alcoholic edge, I don't know if this related but the SMB bottle have had more of an alcoholic burst than the two no SMB bottles I've had. Regardless for day 31 I'm extremely happy and will happily continue to drink this luck ridden brew of mine.

Again don't be fooled by the pictures it's pretty much identical to the ones I've opened before the lighting and my phone are **** in the house and give random results.