Bottle carbonation readings conundrum

[teddyearp]

Two ciders, both with 3q Great Value Apple juice to start. I use 12 oz swing tops. Maybe just a story of two yeasts.

One: 1 cup sugar, 1/2 tsp Pectic, 1 tsp Nutrient, 2 grams S-04 OG 1.065, FG 1.02 bottled with 16 oz of juice and 2 Tbsp+1tsp sugar. Twelve days later they finally reached 28 psi and I put them in the fridge. After 12 hours, pressure back down to 18 psi and stayed there. Tried one and it was not that carbonated, so I figured I'd stir them and wait longer.

Two: Same ingredients except 2.5 grams EC-1118. OG 1.080, FG .997. Bottled with about a quart of juice added back no sugar. Six days later, they're at 32 psi and to the fridge they go. After about 12 hours pressure back down to 29 psi. First one pretty carbed, even had a head, but it died quick.

On both, it seems as though in the fridge the carbonation is lessening. I took batch one out again until it reached 30 psi and fridged it again. Still not very carbed. The two batch is pretty well though and now the guage is climbing again. Guess EC-1118 may not cold crash that much. They will be drank before the weekend it out though.

comments?

 

[Dgallo]

Two ciders, both with 3q Great Value Apple juice to start. I use 12 oz swing tops. Maybe just a story of two yeasts.

One: 1 cup sugar, 1/2 tsp Pectic, 1 tsp Nutrient, 2 grams S-04 OG 1.065, FG 1.02 bottled with 16 oz of juice and 2 Tbsp+1tsp sugar. Twelve days later they finally reached 28 psi and I put them in the fridge. After 12 hours, pressure back down to 18 psi and stayed there. Tried one and it was not that carbonated, so I figured I'd stir them and wait longer.

Two: Same ingredients except 2.5 grams EC-1118. OG 1.080, FG .997. Bottled with about a quart of juice added back no sugar. Six days later, they're at 32 psi and to the fridge they go. After about 12 hours pressure back down to 29 psi. First one pretty carbed, even had a head, but it died quick.

On both, it seems as though in the fridge the carbonation is lessening. I took batch one out again until it reached 30 psi and fridged it again. Still not very carbed. The two batch is pretty well though and now the guage is climbing again. Guess EC-1118 may not cold crash that much. They will be drank before the weekend it out though.

comments?

So what exactly are you asking? Why your psi is dropping in the refrigerator? If so that because cold temperatures cause molecules to contract and become more dense. This will cause the drop in pressure. As the temps rise, the molecules with begin to expand and create more pressure

 

[RPh_Guy]

Twelve days later they finally reached 28 psi

At what temperature?

 

[teddyearp]

So what exactly are you asking? Why your psi is dropping in the refrigerator? If so that because cold temperatures cause molecules to contract and become more dense. This will cause the drop in pressure. As the temps rise, the molecules with begin to expand and create more pressure

I kind of figured it would drop, but why one drops ten psi and the other only 3-4? I should add that batch one after going back to 30 psi, it dropped back to about 23 back in the fridge.

 

[teddyearp]

At what temperature?

Between 66 and 69 room temps, about 33-37 in the fridge.

 

[Dgallo]

I kind of figured it would drop, but why one drops ten psi and the other only 3-4? I should add that batch one after going back to 30 psi, it dropped back to about 23 back in the fridge.

Headspace will have an effect on the psi change. How long it’s under pressure and the specific temperature can contribute to more co2 being absorbed into the beer

 

[teddyearp]

Headspace will have an effect on the psi change. How long it’s under pressure and the specific temperature can contribute to more co2 being absorbed into the beer

Hmm, might be on to something there. I take great care to make sure my flip tops have just enough head space for the bottling wand, but my test pressure bottles with the gauges, no so much care.

 

[bucketnative]

Your pressure is dropping for two reasons: 1) The Ideal Gas Law (PV=nRT) and 2) Henry's Law (Solubility of [most] in a water increase as temperature decrease). So, you less thermal energy because of the reduction in temperature, which results in less pressure; and, you have less molecules of gas because some of them have gone into solution in the liquid (which is carbonation). Perceived carbonation is not necessarily defined by the pressure in the bottle, it's defined by the amount of CO2 in solution.

 

[teddyearp]

So, any idea why the EC-1118 batch is now rising? I think now it's up to 33-34 psi and still in the fridge.

And for kicks, the test bottles are 16.x oz Mountain Dew bottles from six packs at wally world. These two have the same headspace between them, a bit more than the flip tops.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Not all yeast stops when you put it in the fridge.
EC-1118 is about as aggressive as they come.
Drink that one quick before it over-carbonates.

28psi at 66-69°F should be 2.5-2.6 vol, so I don't know why it wouldn't be carbonated at that point, unless your priming sugar was unevenly mixed.

 

[bracconiere]

I use 12 oz swing tops

kinda off-topic, but i'm curious....how exactly are you measuring pressure?

 

[teddyearp]

Not all yeast stops when you put it in the fridge.
EC-1118 is about as aggressive as they come.
Drink that one quick before it over-carbonates.

28psi at 66-69°F should be 2.5-2.6 vol, so I don't know why it wouldn't be carbonated at that point, unless your priming sugar was unevenly mixed.

Thank you so very much for your replies. I'm stumped too. Of course, I'm a bit in the cups so after your warning, I had to go open one just in case. No big 'pop' when opened, no head, but it did maintain some fizz throuout the drinking. And for me boohoo I got some yeast in the pour. But, it was still good. 34 psi in fridge @ 34f.

 

[teddyearp]

kinda off-topic, but i'm curious....how exactly are you measuring pressure?

It is a method posted by Maylar here before he went to kegging. Let's see if I can post a pic of mine.

 

[bracconiere]

lol, you know that's what i was envisioning...i just didn't think anyone would do it...

 

[Maylar]

lol, you know that's what i was envisioning...i just didn't think anyone would do it...

 

[bracconiere]

learn something new everyday...

 

[teddyearp]

learn something new everyday...

I reckon so . .

Funny note, both Maylar's and mine were snapped at 23 psi. What are the odds?

 

[bracconiere]

I reckon so . .

sometimes two things...i just found out my cider starts at 1.067 with 4 lb's of sugar, and not the 1.060 i was thinking....so instead of 21 grams of alcohol, a pour, it was 24 grams....i was wondering why calorie counting formulas were off, 20 cals a drink difference multiplied 10 times a day....the scale should obey me again now that i know.... lol

 

[teddyearp]

So yesterday afternoon, I took the test bottle of batch one and drank it. Surprisingly, it was fairly well carbonated. But I think I don't like that recipe, it was too sweet.

Then last night I popped a bottle of batch two. Wow. Test bottle is up to 35 psi and it actually had very good carbonation. With that, it brought out just enough of the backsweetening(?) yet wasn't too sweet.

 

[teddyearp]

And today I popped the last bottle of batch one. Fairly flat and sweet.

So, this thread had more questions than answers. Reckon I'll chalk it up to those who may come along later to perhaps learn something or nothing from, hehe. I'm going to keep experimenting with bottle carbing for now so that maybe others will learn nothing or something or just give up like others and keg carb. I'm not.

 

[wasully]

sometimes two things...i just found out my cider starts at 1.067 with 4 lb's of sugar, and not the 1.060 i was thinking....so instead of 21 grams of alcohol, a pour, it was 24 grams....i was wondering why calorie counting formulas were off, 20 cals a drink difference multiplied 10 times a day....the scale should obey me again now that i know.... lol

If you're drinking 10 bottles a day, you should be worrying about a lot of things other than your scale.

 

[teddyearp]

If you're drinking 10 bottles a day, you should be worrying about a lot of things other than your scale.

I think once seeing that someone else actually was using some carbonation measurement device like Maylar, it sent him off on a drinking binge . . . LOL.

 

[bracconiere]

If you're drinking 10 bottles a day, you should be worrying about a lot of things other than your scale.

and i do! after 5 years of heavy drinking, i learned how to eat right, gave up the good food for unlimited beer....i eat a lot of rice bran, beans, sunflower seeds, flax seeds...basically all i eat these days, blood works comes back good.....


edit: can't forget vitamins a & k so i have some frozen kale in oj too.....

 

[teddyearp]

So, back on whatever the topic is, and since I haven't been drinking yet, my one batch that started to rise again did stop at the 35 psi it reached last Friday.

And I did kind of figure that the drop in the fridge was a hot/cold thing, it was just curious that the S04 dropped more that the EC-1118 did. No matter, I do not think I will be making that exact recipe again.

 

[bracconiere]

So, back on whatever the topic is,

LOL, hey man, it's what ever you say it is...you're the one with "thread starter" under your name...