Body help

[tkline808]

I wanna make a thick bodied stout, the likes of Founders Imperial Stout. I haven't been able to replicate the thick mouthfeel and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions? To get that perceived thickness does that come from a step mash? if so what temps do you recommend? Higher mashing temps? If so weres about? 158? Or is it from a longer boil? maybe 3+ hours? Essentially starting off with agrain bill for a 7 gallon batch and boiling it down to 5 gallons? Any and all advice is welcomed.

 

[apalke]

I've never had Founder's Imperial Stout, but one thing you could do is to add some Cara-pils which will increase body without affecting the flavor of the beer.

A high mash temperature will give you a thicker-bodied beer, but it will also have residual sweetness. For a high original gravity beer like an Imperial Stout a high mash temperature is usually not desirable because the wort will be less fermentable and your terminal gravity will be very high.

Crystal malts will also give you more body but they'll also leave residual sweetness... it all depends on how you want the beer to end up. How about posting your recipe?

A longer boil is going to concentrate your wort and give a higher original gravity... which could give you more body if your yeast doesn't attenuate to where it would with a less concentrated wort... but it's probably easier to just adjust your recipe in the first place (i.e. add more base malt).

 

[apalke]

I should clarify, that in terms of mashing high with a high original gravity beer this is generally undesirable because your beer will have a relatively high terminal gravity regardless and if you mash too high it could end up cloyingly sweet.

 

[tkline808]

Heres the recipe, loosely based off of BYO anniversary imperial stout

Boil Size: 6.53 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.72 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.10 gal
Estimated OG: 1.100 SG
Estimated Color: 31.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 60.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name
13 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
5 lbs Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM)
2 lbs 12.0 oz Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM)
12.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)
5.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)
4.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
3.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)
2.0 oz Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM)
2.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM)
2.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)
1.50 oz Nugget [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min
0.50 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 1.0 min
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)

 

[Brewrifle]

Carapils and flaked oats will help out with mouthfeel

 

[apalke]

Yeah, Carapils will definitely help. Though, honestly, I've never used flaked barley but it's also supposed to increase body and mouthfeel and with 5 lb it should be doing its job.

When you made this before what mash temperature did you use and what were your OG and FG? If you've got that much flaked barley and you're not getting enough body... well maybe I just don't know what the hell I'm talking about and you need to increase your mash temperature... maybe 152 or at most 154? You are using US-05 which is highly attenuating so it's gonna end low and possibly feel to thin... maybe that's another idea, use a different yeast. I usually use a lower attenuating Irish Ale yeast on my dark beers which is why I initially suggested not raising the mash temperature.

So maybe there are two suggestions... raise the mash temp or use a lower attenuating yeast?

 

[mabrungard]

There should be no problem with creating body and mouthfeel with that recipe. That is a large percentage of flaked barley and that will definitely build the beer body. At over 20% of the grist, I know that the body will be rocky. I actually recommend dropping that percentage back into the 15% range to avoid overdoing it. In a pale beer, I find that as little as a half percent flaked barley can impart a fairly rocky head with only minor flavor impact. Going with higher percentage in roasty beer is OK since the roast tends to obscure the pronounced graininess of the flaked barley.

Adding to that body, will be the modest charge of crystal malts. You don't need to worry a bit about body in the current recipe. I don't believe that an elevated mash temp is really needed or desirable in this case. This is a big beer and the yeast will be struggling for attenuation. A short step in the 120F range will help break down the beta glucans from the flaked barley. I would then take it up to the high 140s or low 150s for the sac rest.

 

[tkline808]

Estimated OG was 1.100 vs 1.094 actual
Estimated FG was 1.025 vs 1.008 actual
I did a makeshift decoction mash. I say make shift as I mash in a cooler and just drained a pre fixed amount of wort, boiled it and added it back to the cooler to raise the temp to different levels. Got the wort amounts off of Green Bay Rackers site. First time that I have attempted to do that.

 

[duboman]

Estimated OG was 1.100 vs 1.094 actual
Estimated FG was 1.025 vs 1.008 actual
I did a makeshift decoction mash. I say make shift as I mash in a cooler and just drained a pre fixed amount of wort, boiled it and added it back to the cooler to raise the temp to different levels. Got the wort amounts off of Green Bay Rackers site. First time that I have attempted to do that.

Wow 1.008? I think you need to calibrate your thermometer, I have a feeling you are mashing lower than you think! No wonder there is no body or mouthfeel..... That's a thin dry beer! Especially with your sort of decoction.

 

[Yooper]

Estimated OG was 1.100 vs 1.094 actual
Estimated FG was 1.025 vs 1.008 actual
I did a makeshift decoction mash. I say make shift as I mash in a cooler and just drained a pre fixed amount of wort, boiled it and added it back to the cooler to raise the temp to different levels. Got the wort amounts off of Green Bay Rackers site. First time that I have attempted to do that.

When you drain wort, and boil it, you denature the enzymes. Don't do that!

If you want to do a decoction, pull out the grain and heat it and hold it at conversion temperatures and then boil it and add it back. Or do a step mash, but do not remove the wort and boil it until mashing out.

 

[apalke]

If you went from 1.094 to 1.008 that's a very high level of attenuation. What was your temperature profile? I would guess your main conversion temperature was pretty low to get that much fermentable sugar in your wort?

Why are you bothering with a decoction in the first place? Is it due to mash tun size constraints with this much grain? If I were you I'd do a single rest at 152 to 154 to give you a fuller body. Maybe you could replace some of the flaked barley with 2 row and some cara-pils. If you want to keep the flaked barley you might be able do a protein rest with a thick mash and then do an infusion with boiling water to get to conversion, but you'll probably need a big mash tun... I think you might be able to get away without the protein rest as well, the 2 row should convert the flaked barley.

 

[tkline808]

Well I was more less experimenting with it. I use a 10g cooler mash tun and figured the only way to get serious viscous mouth feel was to try this half assed method. Was it a waste? probably so, but there was only one way to find out I suppose.

Anyways I guess you can say I doughed in at 131 and rested for 15m, drained 4qts heated to boiling and added back to raise to 140 for 15m, drained 4.5qts heated to boiling and added back to raise to 149 for 45m, drained 8.4qts heated to boiling and added back to raise to 162 for 5m then drained 3.5qts heated to boiling and added back to get me to 167.(or so I think with the temps. Again kinda soley relied on the Greenbay rackers site)

Needless to say it was a long brew day. Its not bad but not what I wanted. I intended to try and get a thick, chewy mouthfeel but alas I did not.

 

[Yooper]

Well I was more less experimenting with it. I use a 10g cooler mash tun and figured the only way to get serious viscous mouth feel was to try this half assed method. Was it a waste? probably so, but there was only one way to find out I suppose.

Anyways I guess you can say I doughed in at 131 and rested for 15m, drained 4qts heated to boiling and added back to raise to 140 for 15m, drained 4.5qts heated to boiling and added back to raise to 149 for 45m, drained 8.4qts heated to boiling and added back to raise to 162 for 5m then drained 3.5qts heated to boiling and added back to get me to 167.(or so I think with the temps. Again kinda soley relied on the Greenbay rackers site)

Needless to say it was a long brew day. Its not bad but not what I wanted. I intended to try and get a thick, chewy mouthfeel but alas I did not.

Aside from denaturing the enzyme with the boiling, that profile is for a beer like a pilsner- a light, thin, crisp beer. It would be the total opposite of what you said you wanted- a full, rich, thick, chewy beer.

Decoctions can be worthwhile, but you need to have a good mash temp and good schedule as well as proper technique (boiling the mash, not the liquid, after holding for conversion).

Next time, for a full bodied chewy beer, do a single infusion mash at 156-158. The recipe is good for that type of beer, and for a single infusion mash as well.