Blue Moon Clone

[nilo]

Wayne, is it absolutelly required not to have late hop additions?
I was wondering is some aroma from a citrusy hops wouldn't be good for this beer.
I know that we are trying a clone and if you say no way, I'll stick to it (although I may try just to see what happen )
I'm brewing #4 as I type. Forgot the carapills

 

[Wayne1]

Hello Nilo,

Sorry, I just noticed your question.

For an exact clone of the original recipe no late hops should be used.

For something a bit different, I think a small amount of some citrus leaning hops, say Sorachi Ace, might add a bit of personality. I would use them right at knockout or during whirlpool.

For fun, you might try adding a small amount of your hop of choice to a French Press coffee maker and put the beer on top of it. Let it sit for a few minutes and push down the plunger and pour. You could also add some fresh grated orange peel to turn up the flavor one serving at a time.

Here is a post I made about using a French Press French Press

 

[nilo]

thanks.
I'll definitely try the French press idea.
Another question, do you have a recommendation on volumes of CO2 for this beer?

 

[Wayne1]

Try somewhere in the 2.5-3 volumes range.

 

[wolfpack94]

Just brewed extract recipe on page 44 using orange peels. I will et everyone know how it turns out. Quick question - How long should I keep in primary b/f transferring to secondary?

 

[mredge73]

@ wolfpack
I would just leave it in there 1.5 - 3 weeks and skip the secondary
(unless you plan to add spices to the secondary)



I currently have Nilo4 and Wayne Original recipes kegged and carbed.
I have to say that I do like the Wayne's more but that is because I feel like Nilo4 is over spiced. As compared to the commercial version; Nilo4 has the appearance and aroma pretty close. But Wayne's recipe has the taste and texture. They both are terrific brews for Spring/Summer.

One more note:
I brewed both with S-04 dry yeast; (the same yeast cake). I don't really think this is the correct yeast for the clone. The Kolsh that I made last year has a flavor close to the commercial version of the Blue Moon and it does not have any added spices. My next attempt will be Nilo4's grain bill with Wayne's spices and a WLP029 yeast. If anything it will taste like beer!

 

[nilo]

Just brewed extract recipe on page 44 using orange peels. I will et everyone know how it turns out. Quick question - How long should I keep in primary b/f transferring to secondary?

it shouldn't be taken off primary until gravity flats out. many leaves for a week or two after that. no secondary is needed for this recipe. beer will be cloudy and that is desired.

 

[Wayne1]

mredge73,

Thanks for your comments on comparing different recipes. The more info everyone has, the better the end results will be.

S04 is a very estery yeast. I love it in English Ales and certain American Pale Ales to give a bit more character. For your tastes, to get closer to the Blue Moon taste, I suggest a more neutral yeast such as S05/1056.

It really depends on your system and tastes. I love that nilo stretched things a bit to hit the target with his system. In another system, it WILL be a bit different. That is why you need to brew and rebrew until you meet your goals.

wolfpak94,

As mredge73 suggests, the only way to know for certain is to check the gravity of the beer. when you get the same reading 3 days in a row, you should be fairly well certain primary fermentation in finished. You can then transfer to a conditioning vessel, if you so desire. It has become popular in homebrewing to not transfer. This is really up to each brewer. There is no universal "best" way to treat your beer.

I tend to be a bit "old school" in that I usually let the beer ferment for two weeks in primary and then transfer to a conditioning vessel for at least another week or until a keg opens up. After a week in conditioning, you can then drop the temp to 40F, if possible. This will may carbonating in the keg a bit easier.

Good luck on your beer.

 

[BearStein]

Just brewed extract recipe on page 44 using orange peels. I will et everyone know how it turns out. Quick question - How long should I keep in primary b/f transferring to secondary?

How much coriander and orange peel did you use? I'm going to brew this weekend.

 

[wolfpack94]

I used peels from 3 oranges and around 0.375 oz of whole corriander crushed in coffee grinder. Be sure to get all the whilte off of the orange peel. I also soaked the peels in vodka liked someone suggested b/f I put them in the fermenter. My batch has been fermenting for almost a week and has a huge orange smell.

 

[Paxsman]

I was wondering what temperature people are fermenting at? I just finished a batch (Nilo-4) and noticed some aftertaste/off flavors. I typically ferment at 68 deg however this batch reached 72-73. I also (due to time constraints) left this batch in the fermenter for 5 weeks. So two questions...what do you all think affected this batch more? Time or Temp?
Just a quick note...with all the above, the beer still tasted great. I would say it is a bit heavier than Blue Moon with a slight aftertaste but all & all a great beer. I think I will try Wayne's original recipe next!
Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[gregkeller]

I did the original recipe from Wayne, using S-05 and fermented it around 62. Mine was really good. I'm figuring that this is the main thing making this beer different from a real belgian where many of the flavors are yeast derived, this beer should be pretty yeast neutral. Seems like some people are using s-04 which gives a little bit of yeast derived character, but I don't think there should be too much, it would fight with the freshness of the orange and coriander.

 

[wolfpack94]

I brewed the extract recipe and recently bottled. It tasted a little sweet but I hope that the sweetness will decrease with carbonation. I will post how it taste in a couple of weeks. Fermented over 3 weeks.

 

[pentachris]

Tried this today. This is my 3rd 5-gal batch, and my 1st real attempt at a partial mash. I thought I was getting DME that was 65% wheat, 35% barley. That would've put this recipe within a percent or so of the 50:40:10 ratio of barley : wheat : oats that Wayne's original recipe called for. What I actually got was 55% wheat, 45% barley. So, I'm a little off. Whatever. I was very pleased with my OG, seeing that this was my first real attempt at a mash. I got a suggestion from Yooper to let it mash for 90 mins. to let the oats convert. I had an extra 1/2 lb of oats laying around, so I went with a 15 min boil of those based on nilo's suggestion. I'm pretty optimistic about this batch. Comments welcome.

Process:

3 lbs pale malt (crisp), 1 lb flaked oats, 6 qts water. Strike temp 170. Starting mash temp 155 (had to add a little cool water to get to this temp). Mash for 90 mins (go for 2-1/2 mile run, shower & have a cup of coffee). Ending mash temp 151. Sparge with 6 qts water at 161 for 20 mins. Add water to bring total volume to 6.5 gals.

Bring to boil & kill heat. Stir in 3 lbs 11 oz wheat DME (55% wheat, 45% barley). Return heat and bring back to boil. Add 1 oz hollertau hops. Boil 45 mins. Add grain bag with 1/2 lb flaked oats. Boil 5 mins. Add 11 grams ground coriander. Boil 10 mins.

Chill to 80. Final volume in the fermenting bucket is right at 5 gals. Adjusted OG = 1.056. Add chopped zest of 3 oranges (~0.9 oz) that soaked in 1/2 cup vodka overnight. Aerate with drill/paint stirrer for 2 minutes. Pitch rehydrated US-05 yeast, move to 62 fermentation chamber.

 

[pentachris]

I tasted my gravity sample Sunday. The coriander was a little harsh, and I thought the orange was ever-so-slightly understated. It had only been in the fermenter for 6 days, so I think a little time will mellow the coriander. Unfortunately, I'm afraid it will also fade the orange.

I noticed the oat goop trub that has been mentioned. I'm wondering if a cold crash would help compact it even more? I'm thinking it's going to be difficult siphoning to my bottling bucket without picking a fair amount up, especially since my fermentation chamber is in an out-building on the other side of my carport and I bottle in the kitchen. No matter how careful I am, it's going to get stirred up a bit as I move it inside.

I've finally read, or at least glancingly scanned, all the posts in this thread. Thanks to all who have contributed; I hope I can offer some insight as well. I've dubbed my adaptation "Yogi Beera," as it is an American wit born in a ball park.

 

[brewit2it]

I tasted my gravity sample Sunday. The coriander was a little harsh, and I thought the orange was ever-so-slightly understated. It had only been in the fermenter for 6 days, so I think a little time will mellow the coriander. Unfortunately, I'm afraid it will also fade the orange.

I noticed the oat goop trub that has been mentioned. I'm wondering if a cold crash would help compact it even more? I'm thinking it's going to be difficult siphoning to my bottling bucket without picking a fair amount up, especially since my fermentation chamber is in an out-building on the other side of my carport and I bottle in the kitchen. No matter how careful I am, it's going to get stirred up a bit as I move it inside.

I've finally read, or at least glancingly scanned, all the posts in this thread. Thanks to all who have contributed; I hope I can offer some insight as well. I've dubbed my adaptation "Yogi Beera," as it is an American wit born in a ball park.

Sounds good. Let us know how you like it when it's done. You mashed a little high but that should be fine. I make a partial mash version that has a little higher barley to wheat ratio than Wayne's original and I go light on the coriander and dry sweet orange peel because that's how I like it. I always mill and mash the oats (Quaker quick oats) and never get any problem with goop. Just a nice amount of mouth feel and perfect cloudy appearance from the oats and wheat. My current recipe has evolved to this but I keep tweaking it:

5 gallon batch:
3#6oz white wheat
3#6 oz 2 row
14oz quick oats
1 lb golden light DME
3/4 oz low alpha acid hops (whatever I have on hand)
.2 oz corriander
.4 oz orange peel

mash at 152 for 70 minutes
60 minute boil, coriander and orange peel at last 5 minutes
Nottingham ale yeast mid 60's for 2 weeks in primary then into keg and drink her up as soon as it's carbed

 

[nilo]

Maybe he boiled the oats which results in much more goop in the fermenter than just mashing it. I wouldn't worry about it. Just let is compact as much as possible before racking.

 

[pentachris]

brewit2it: thanks for sharing where you are now. Looks like a good recipe, but it's a bit more than I can mash right now - I've got my 8 gal brew kettle, but the next best option I've got for PMing is a 2.5 gal stock pot with a paint strainer bag. Next time I try it, I'd like to get some wheat into the mash instead of all in the DME like this time.

nilo: I did both, actually. 1 lb of oats mashed, and 1/2 lb of oats boiled for 15 mins. Why? because I had a pound and a half of oats, that's why. :fro:

 

[tre9er]

A protein rest for the oats is a good thing

 

[dbrewski]

I'm drinking my batch as I write. Go easy on the coriander, it is easy to over do it.

 

[pentachris]

A protein rest for the oats is a good thing

I'd actually considered a protein rest, but was steered away from it here. What benefit would it offer?

 

[tre9er]

I'd actually considered a protein rest, but was steered away from it here. What benefit would it offer?

I always mean to do one but never do because I have a process that I'm used to when brewing. I'm told by numerous sources that it helps with breaking down the proteins so they don't coagulate as much and make sticky mess.

 

[jwalker1140]

Would there be a problem washing yeast from this beer, ala the 'Yeast Washing Illustrated' sticky by Bernie Brewer? I know there can be issues with yeast from high IBU or high ABV beers but I wasn't sure if the orange or coriander would cause a problem. I assume not but I thought I'd ask.

 

[shadows69]

There's no problem in washing the yeast. I do it all the time. I use WLP400, but it doesn't matter what yeast your using it all can be washed and reused.

 

[jmich24]

I have a Blue Moon clone fermenting right now at 62 degree 1 week. I am going to let it free rise up to 70 for another week before cold crashing over night. Here is my recipe.

OG 1.060
FG. 1.015 estimate
ABV 5.89

6 pounds 2 row
5 pounds white wheat malt
1 pound caramel 10
18 oz oatmeal

Bittered to 15 IBU
1 oz sweet dried orange peel @ 10 min
.2 oz coriander @ 10 min
1 oz sweet dried orange peel @ 1 min
.2 oz coriander @ 1 min

Yeast US-05

BIAB Mash 154, Mash Out 170 for 10 min.

 

[wubears71]

My Blue Moon Clone is finally carbed up and I'm happy with it. I cannot say if it tastes (or looks) exactly like a blue moon as I have not had one for a while, but the end result turned out pretty dang good.

Here is the recipe if anyone cares:

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Blue Moon Clone - Memorial Brew
Brewer: Tim Malyszko
Asst Brewer:
Style: Witbier
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (47.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 14.29 gal
Post Boil Volume: 11.44 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 10.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 10.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 2.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 18.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 93.5 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
20.00 gal Denver, Colorado Water 1 -
2.80 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 0.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
1.20 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 0.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
0.01 oz Potassium Metabisulphite (Mash 0.0 min Water Agent 4 -
8 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 50.0 %
6 lbs 12.8 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 6 40.0 %
1 lbs 11.2 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 7 10.0 %
1.87 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.80 %] - Boil Hop 8 18.1 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 9 -
2.50 tsp Coriander Ground (Boil 10.0 mins) Spice 10 -
0.66 tsp Orange Peel, Valencia (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 11 -
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 12 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 17 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 5.38 gal of water at 164.5 F 151.0 F 90 min
Mash Out Error: Infusion temperature above boili 168.0 F 15 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 11.23 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
------
After Doughing in and Mixing well, Measure the pH and adjust with 88% Lactic Acid until pH is at 5.2 to 5.3.

When getting to Temperature on the Mash Out, Acidify the Water. Add 88% lactic Acid until the pH in the HLT is in the 5.6 to 5.8 pH Range.

Sparge at a rate of 1 gallon every 5 minutes. It should take 60 - 90 minutes.

Measure Pre-Boil Gravity and pH.

Measure Post boil gravity and pH.







Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[wolfpack94]

Brewed the extract recipe. It is very good but not spot on Blue Moon in taste or color. Stronger orange taste than BM. Seems more like Shock Top. This is just my 2nd batch of homebrew and I am pleased with the outcome. Will probably make again.

 

[jwalker1140]

Brewed the extract recipe. It is very good but not spot on Blue Moon in taste or color. Stronger orange taste than BM. Seems more like Shock Top.

My impression after brewing this was similar to yours. I hadn't tasted Blue Moon in quite a while when I first read through this thread and built my recipe. And because so many of the posts in here focus on the orange addition I assumed the flavor must be very prominent. When I compared mine side-by-side with the commercial version I was shocked at how little orange I could find in the commercial version. Every time I've had it since then I've had the same impression that the coriander was in the foreground and the orange was in the background. It was the reverse in the version I brewed, which had 3 oz dried orange peel and 0.4 oz coriander.

I guess I can understand why some people may like a strong orange presence, but that's not Blue Moon, at least to my taste. I'm going to brew this again next week and I'm going to stay as close as I can to Wayne's original recipe. Finger's crossed.

 

[brewit2it]

My impression after brewing this was similar to yours. I hadn't tasted Blue Moon in quite a while when I first read through this thread and built my recipe. And because so many of the posts in here focus on the orange addition I assumed the flavor must be very prominent. When I compared mine side-by-side with the commercial version I was shocked at how little orange I could find in the commercial version. Every time I've had it since then I've had the same impression that the coriander was in the foreground and the orange was in the background. It was the reverse in the version I brewed, which had 3 oz dried orange peel and 0.4 oz coriander.

I guess I can understand why some people may like a strong orange presence, but that's not Blue Moon, at least to my taste. I'm going to brew this again next week and I'm going to stay as close as I can to Wayne's original recipe. Finger's crossed.

I agree. That's why I've evolved to this recipe. I've made it at least a half dozen times and find this ratio gives just enough orange to taste it, but just barely. I sometimes add a slice of orange, especially when serving it to a friend, so want the orange in the beer itself to be very subtle, and the coriander flavor as well actually.

5 gallon batch:
3#6oz white wheat
3#6 oz 2 row
14oz quick oats
1 lb golden light DME
3/4 oz low alpha acid hops (whatever I have on hand)
.2 oz corriander
.4 oz orange peel

mash at 152 for 70 minutes
60 minute boil, coriander and orange peel at last 5 minutes
Nottingham ale yeast mid 60's for 2 weeks in primary then into keg and drink her up as soon as it's carbed

 

[jwalker1140]

This is what I'm looking at. I can only mash ~7 lbs so I'll have to add some LME at flameout. This pretty much gives me the 50/40/10 grain bill ratio and the 3:1 spice ratio of the original.

5 gal., OG 1.052, 60 min mash at 152, 70% efficiency, ferment at 67, est ABV 5.3%

4 lbs 2 row
2 lbs white wheat malt
1 lb oats
2 lbs wheat LME (65% wheat, 35% pale) at flameout
17.5 ibus tettnang at 60 min
0.75 oz coriander at 10 min
0.25 oz orange peel at 5 min
Wyeast 1056 harvested from the cream ale I'll bottle this weekend

 

[brewit2it]

This is what I'm looking at. I can only mash ~7 lbs so I'll have to add some LME at flameout. This pretty much gives me the 50/40/10 grain bill ratio and the 3:1 spice ratio of the original.

5 gal., OG 1.052, 60 min mash at 152, 70% efficiency, ferment at 67, est ABV 5.3%

4 lbs 2 row
2 lbs white wheat malt
1 lb oats
2 lbs wheat LME (65% wheat, 35% pale) at flameout
17.5 ibus tettnang at 60 min
0.75 oz coriander at 10 min
0.25 oz orange peel at 5 min
Wyeast 1056 harvested from the cream ale I'll bottle this weekend

The original ratios listed by Wayne were reversed. If you read a little farther you will see where he corrected it. .75 oz coriander is going to be way too much for a 5 gallon batch, and .25 oz orange peel will be darn near indetectable in my opinion. Try closer to .25 coriander and .5 to .75 orange peel.

 

[jwalker1140]

The original ratios listed by Wayne were reversed. If you read a little farther you will see where he corrected it. .75 oz coriander is going to be way too much for a 5 gallon batch, and .25 oz orange peel will be darn near indetectable in my opinion. Try closer to .25 coriander and .5 to .75 orange peel.

In post #6, Wayne lists 1.25t coriander and 0.33t orange peel. When he subsequently mentioned that he had originally flipped the ratio but had since fixed it, I took that to mean that he went back to post #6 and edited it so that what we read now is the ratio as he originally intended it (i.e., he had originally, and mistakenly, listed 1.25t as the amount of the orange addition). Further, in post #274 he proposes 1.25 oz coriander and 0.3 oz orange peel.

I've brewed it with 0.4 oz of coriander, ground to powder, and that just wasn't enough. Hmm....

 

[pentachris]

I used 11g (~0.375 oz) organic ground coriander, and at bottling it tasted pretty close to accurate. Although, it was simply a "will it pass or is it awful" judgment I was going for.

 

[Wayne1]

The amount of spices used will vary depending on the system and methods used. You will have to brew the recipe a few times to get the right ratio and amounts for your system and tastes.

A lot will depend on exactly what form the orange peel and coriander are in. The original recipe was a downscale of the amounts used in a 15 bbl batch. In that size, 90 oz of pre-ground coriander and 32 oz of dried ground Valencia orange peel were used. Different amounts will be needed if you grind your own coriander or grate your own fresh orange peel.

Good luck.

 

[harrisds9880]

Just want to thank Wayne1 and Nilo for all their contributions on this thread. Plan on trying this brew this upcoming weekend.

 

[pentachris]

Update on the partial mash recipe I posted above: 16 days after bottling, I put one in the fridge and let it sit for 48 hours. First impression: very tasty and refreshing, plenty of orange flavor - two oranges would've probably been enough, but three isn't overpowering, just a little bit forward. But I over-carbonated it, it needs more coriander flavor, and it needs a little more body. Maybe if it weren't quite so heavily carbed, the coriander would shine through a bit more. I'll enjoy it, and it gives me a starting point if I decide to try it again.

 

[nilo]

Update on the partial mash recipe I posted above: 16 days after bottling, I put one in the fridge and let it sit for 48 hours. First impression: very tasty and refreshing, plenty of orange flavor - two oranges would've probably been enough, but three isn't overpowering, just a little bit forward. But I over-carbonated it, it needs more coriander flavor, and it needs a little more body. Maybe if it weren't quite so heavily carbed, the coriander would shine through a bit more. I'll enjoy it, and it gives me a starting point if I decide to try it again.

Is this the first report of a partial mash BM clone on this thread? Anyways, thank you Chris for the feedback, I'm sure many do partial mash and those will benefit for your test.
If you changed or adjusted your recipe, please post an update.

Nilo

Note.: I just brewed a BM with 1.5oz of valencia dry orange peels + 0.375oz of coriander, will report in a week or two.

 

[pentachris]

No, I found another PM adaptation buried in the thread after I'd already formulated and brewed mine. I'm on my phone now but IIRC it's 2/3-3/4 of the way through the thread so far.

I bought some commercial BM last night. My home brew could use slightly less orange, slightly more coriander, a touch more hops bite, and something to give the grain a little more mouthfeel. Some cara or crystal perhaps? I know you used some specialty malt, nilo. I think mine needs some, too.

 

[jwalker1140]

Speaking of PM versions, I just bottled this over the weekend. Intended to match the 50/40/10 ratio of the original (which this pretty much does), and the spice amounts chosen based on previous experience and recent comments by Wayne, brewit2it and others. I have a 4 gal cooler and a 5 gal brew kettle so 7 lbs is about the most grain I can mash.

5 gal, 70% efficiency
4 lbs 2-row
2 lbs white wheat malt
1 lbs flaked oats
2 lbs wheat LME (65% wheat, 35% pale) - flameout
0.91 oz tettnang (3.9%) - 60 min.
0.66 oz coriander seeds, crushed fine - 10 min.
0.66 oz orange peel, sweet - 5 min.
Wyeast 1056, 1c slurry collected 3 days prior from a cream ale
(Plus 2.5 gal distilled water, 2 g calcium chloride, 2 ml lactic acid to overcome my alkaline water)

OG 1.052, FG, 1.011, IBU, 17.5, mashed at 154, fermented at 67 for 2.5 weeks.

I'll post back once it's carbed and after a side-by-side comparison with the commercial version, but the sample I tried on bottling day was very good. Sure reminds me of the real thing, much more so than the extract version I did last December where I had too much orange and not enough coriander. Will be shocked if I have to adjust either of the spice amounts by more than 0.2 oz.

 

[nilo]

No, I found another PM adaptation buried in the thread after I'd already formulated and brewed mine. I'm on my phone now but IIRC it's 2/3-3/4 of the way through the thread so far.

I bought some commercial BM last night. My home brew could use slightly less orange, slightly more coriander, a touch more hops bite, and something to give the grain a little more mouthfeel. Some cara or crystal perhaps? I know you used some specialty malt, nilo. I think mine needs some, too.

From my attempts I could only get close to the thickness of the comercial BM by boiling the oats for 15min. I tried adding it to the mash and did not do anything, nada. Carapils is another option, just be careful since it will increase your FG.
I used 2lb of Crystal 10. I'm now using just one pound to bring the color down a bit, still to taste the beer in a week. It also adds mouthfeel to the beer.
One thing that I didn't try is add some starch to the boil. I think this would also work to increase thickness and get a chill raze, which is present on the comercial beer.