Blue Moon Clone - Substitute Yeast

[jlietzow]

I brewed a Blue Moon Clone from AIH yesterday and pitched WLP400. Unfortunately AIH screwed up my order and did not include the ice pack when they shipped they yeast. I had hoped it would still be viable but after more than 24 hours I see no signs of any fermentation.

I have US-05 and S-04 on hand that I can pitch to try to rescue this beer. I know that neither will be true to the style, but I hate to throw this beer out. Which made a better beer?

 

[macaronijones]

I make an awesome blue moon clone with US-05. It's based on the recipe from Wayne (one of the original brewers) on the thread below. According to him no fancy belgian yeast strains were used.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/blue-moon-clone.65328/

 

[IslandLizard]

That's one of the 2 most important reasons to always make a starter with liquid yeast. Especially after shipping. It proves viability and ramps up cell count. Even the 100 billion cells in a fresh pack, without potential damage from shipping during high or freezing temps, is already skimpy.

Sometimes it takes 2-3 days to see signs of fermentation, usually a bit of foam (krausen) forming on top. What temp is it at? Low 70s may help to get her started when tardy, then chill it down a few (66-68F) for the actual ride.

But you're getting to the point where something needs to happen. Soon.
Maybe let her go in a warm place until 48 hours are up?
Can you see the clarity of the beer? Is it cloudy? Any small bubbles developing? Any signs of foam developing on top? Those are tell tales for fermentation.

Either of the dry yeast alternatives will work, it will still be a wheat beer, but taste differently.
When time comes, I'd probably use US-05, turning it into more of an American wheat.

 

[IslandLizard]

I make an awesome blue moon clone with US-05. It's based on the recipe from Wayne (one of the original brewers) on the thread below. According to him the US-05 strain is how it was originally brewed.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/blue-moon-clone.65328/page-2

Yeah, there's that! Excellent point!
Blue Moon is an American beer after all... Do it!

 

[Blazinlow86]

I brewed a Blue Moon Clone from AIH yesterday and pitched WLP400. Unfortunately AIH screwed up my order and did not include the ice pack when they shipped they yeast. I had hoped it would still be viable but after more than 24 hours I see no signs of any fermentation.

I have US-05 and S-04 on hand that I can pitch to try to rescue this beer. I know that neither will be true to the style, but I hate to throw this beer out. Which made a better beer?

I would wait abit myself. 24 hours isn't necessarily mean it's a dud. Additionally while ive never tested this first hand I would think leaving the yeast at room temp during shipping for only a few days and pitching it would still workout. Maybe others can confirm that however

 

[JimRausch]

2nd the US-05. Also based on Wayne's recommendation, it's all I use. Blue Moon calls itself a 'Belgian style' now, but the original was an American Wheat with added coriander and orange peel. If you have a couple hours to enjoy, read through the thread that macaronijones listed.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I've always used US-05 for this beer. The beer's character is definitely not about the yeast...

Cheers!

 

[jlietzow]

That's one of the 2 most important reasons to always make a starter with liquid yeast. Especially after shipping. It proves viability and ramps up cell count. Even the 100 billion cells in a fresh pack, without potential damage from shipping during high or freezing temps, is already skimpy.

Sometimes it takes 2-3 days to see signs of fermentation, usually a bit of foam (krausen) forming on top. What temp is it at? Low 70s may help to get her started when tardy, then chill it down a few (66-68F) for the actual ride.

But you're getting to the point where something needs to happen. Soon.
Maybe let her go in a warm place until 48 hours are up?
Can you see the clarity of the beer? Is it cloudy? Any small bubbles developing? Any signs of foam developing on top? Those are tell tales for fermentation.

Either of the dry yeast alternatives will work, it will still be a wheat beer, but taste differently.
When time comes, I'd probably use US-05, turning it into more of an American wheat.

Thanks for the comments. The temp is about 68 and I see no signs of any foam or even bubbles. The beer is clear as best I can tell (it's in a bucket).

Based on the comments I'll wait one more day to see if anything develops. If not I'll pitch US-05. Who knows - maybe I'll like it better. I'm not a big fan of Blue Moon, but I'm brewing it for our upcoming July 4th picnic.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for the comments. The temp is about 68 and I see no signs of any foam or even bubbles. The beer is clear as best I can tell (it's in a bucket).

Based on the comments I'll wait one more day to see if anything develops. If not I'll pitch US-05. Who knows - maybe I'll like it better. I'm not a big fan of Blue Moon, but I'm brewing it for our upcoming July 4th picnic.

74F may have helped it start faster, but if the yeast isn't viable enough any contenders will have embraced that environment also, to get the upper hand.

Every time you open the bucket more "stuff" drops in, peek through the airlock hole. The beer being mostly clear with no bubbles is not a good sign. 48 hours after first pitch, I'd do the 2nd option.

Before I knew about starters and pitch rates I had a Pilsner take 4 days to show any sign of fermentation (1 vial of WLP800, doh!). After 2 days at 55F I warmed her up to 65F to get her at least interested, then back down again. And back up again to get her to finish 2 weeks later. Turned out quite OK, could have used twice the aroma hops.

 

[jlietzow]

74F may have helped it start faster, but if the yeast isn't viable enough any contenders will have embraced that environment also, to get the upper hand.

Every time you open the bucket more "stuff" drops in, peek through the airlock hole. The beer being mostly clear with no bubbles is not a good sign. 48 hours after first pitch, I'd do the 2nd option.

Before I knew about starters and pitch rates I had a Pilsner take 4 days to show any sign of fermentation (1 vial of WLP800, doh!). After 2 days at 55F I warmed her up to 65F to get her at least interested, then back down again. And back up again to get her to finish 2 weeks later. Turned out quite OK, could have used twice the aroma hops.

Patience seems to a recurring lesson for me as a novice brewer. I began to see signs of fermentation yesterday and this morning the yeast is happy and working hard. I will have beer after all!

Thanks to all for the helpful comments and suggestions.

 

[balrog]

Patience is the hardest thing to learn in this obsession

 

[jlietzow]

That's one of the 2 most important reasons to always make a starter with liquid yeast. Especially after shipping. It proves viability and ramps up cell count. Even the 100 billion cells in a fresh pack, without potential damage from shipping during high or freezing temps, is already skimpy.

Sometimes it takes 2-3 days to see signs of fermentation, usually a bit of foam (krausen) forming on top. What temp is it at? Low 70s may help to get her started when tardy, then chill it down a few (66-68F) for the actual ride.

But you're getting to the point where something needs to happen. Soon.
Maybe let her go in a warm place until 48 hours are up?
Can you see the clarity of the beer? Is it cloudy? Any small bubbles developing? Any signs of foam developing on top? Those are tell tales for fermentation.

Either of the dry yeast alternatives will work, it will still be a wheat beer, but taste differently.
When time comes, I'd probably use US-05, turning it into more of an American wheat.

Guess I need to learn about starters. I had been using mostly dry yeast without rehydrating and was generally happy with the results.

I've tried some liquid yeast more recently, just adding directly from the package to the wort, and have noticed an improvement in my beer (especially stouts and Belgian beers).

Any recommendations of resources that I could use to learn the basics of yeast starters would be welcome.... Thanks again.

 

[IslandLizard]

Any recommendations of resources that I could use to learn the basics of yeast starters would be welcome.... Thanks again.

There are stickies in this forum, but some of the info is a bit dated.
Search for yeast starters... plenty of resources, here and elsewhere.

In Chrome, to only get results from HBT:
site:homebrewtalk.com "yeast starter"​

 

[Brettomomyces]

I have heard through the grapevine that Blue Moon nowadays uses 10th gen Coor's Banquet yeast...

Call me crazy, but taste both side by side and you'll see it

 

[rtstrider]

That's one of the 2 most important reasons to always make a starter with liquid yeast. Especially after shipping. It proves viability and ramps up cell count. Even the 100 billion cells in a fresh pack, without potential damage from shipping during high or freezing temps, is already skimpy.

Sometimes it takes 2-3 days to see signs of fermentation, usually a bit of foam (krausen) forming on top. What temp is it at? Low 70s may help to get her started when tardy, then chill it down a few (66-68F) for the actual ride.

But you're getting to the point where something needs to happen. Soon.
Maybe let her go in a warm place until 48 hours are up?
Can you see the clarity of the beer? Is it cloudy? Any small bubbles developing? Any signs of foam developing on top? Those are tell tales for fermentation.

Either of the dry yeast alternatives will work, it will still be a wheat beer, but taste differently.
When time comes, I'd probably use US-05, turning it into more of an American wheat.

us-05 will get you where you need to go with this one. It's said coors uses a neutral yeast for blue moon anywho. Now I've tried 05 and 3944 (aka wlp400). 05 is what it is...A boring plain Jane yeast. 3944/wlp400 is a tad sulfury and more true to a belgian wit. However if you're shooting for blue moon I'd venture to say that's a coriander loaded american wit. Add 1 oz of cracked (with a rolling pin or meat mallet) corrainder at 10 minutes, 1 oz orange peel (2 oz fresh Tangelo zest rocks if you can source that instead) at 5 minutes.