Blichman gun vs. counter pressure filler

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Matthewjscott

Matthewjscott

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Like many of us tinkerers, I am trying to figure out if it is easy and efficient to build a counter pressure filler or just buy a blichman gun. Do any of you have any thoughts or suggestions/links for a build?
 
I used to use a home made counter pressure filler, I am very glad that I eventually bought the beer gun. I would never go back.
 
I like the morebeer counter pressure bottle filler. Filling under pressure is key, and it is something that the beer gun cannot do.
 
I have both the Blichmann Beer Gun and the MoreBeer Deluxe CPBF. I prefer the CPBF. There's a few things that I prefer:

* On the morebeer, you control the flow via an adjustable pressure relief twist valve on the side. On the blichmann, you need to control the flow via the regulator's psi settings and length of beer hose. You can use the B3 filler with short hose and be fine...I used 5' hose at 12psi and using the relief valve, I filled the bottle with almost no foaming (I did go pretty slow). This also means less beer hose to get in your way.

* I can leave my regulator at serving pressure the entire time instead of having to drop it to really low psi for the blichmann. I had a lot of foam issues filling with the blichmann mostly due to pressure used (trying to find the sweetspot from 2psi to 5psi). With the B3, you are filling under pressure and you can literally go as fast or as slow as you want very easily using the adjustable valve on the side.

I kinda wish they made a semi-deluxe counter pressure filler...keep the flare fittings of the deluxe, but lose the co2 gauge. That way, I could just chuck the whole thing into sanitizer instead of being careful about the gauge. If you get the one without the gauge, they are about equal to clean.

As far as fillings, the Blichmann is faster (disregarding how fast the beer comes out). With the blichmann, you purge with co2 with the same hand that you release the beer flow. The procedure is basically stick beergun in bottle, purge with co2 and hit beer trigger. With the B3 CPBF, you need to stopper the bottle (stopper is built into filller), swing the valve to co2 to pressurize the bottle, turn the adjustable valve to vent the bottle a little (purging), close the adjustable valve, swing the ball valve to beer, turn the adjustable relief valve to fill. It's definitely more involved and time-consuming, but I feel there's so much more control and I'll have a better end product. If I was filling tons of bottles, I'd probably go blichmann. If I was bottling a little bit or filling for comps, I'd go B3 CPBF.
 
BrewThruYou said:
I kinda wish they made a semi-deluxe counter pressure filler...keep the flare fittings of the deluxe, but lose the co2 gauge. That way, I could just chuck the whole thing into sanitizer instead of being careful about the gauge.
Click to expand...

Assuming that the gauge has a 1/4 MIP fitting, then why not remove the gauge, and attach to the gauge a 1/4 FIP to 1/4 MFL (or if you can't find that fitting, a 1/4 coupling then a 1/4 MIP to 1/4 MFL). Then make a real short piece of tubing with a 1/4 FFL swivel nut to barb and on the other end of that tube put a barb to 1/4 MIP. Now you can easily detach the gauge at the MFL/FFL connection.
 
DeafSmith said:
Assuming that the gauge has a 1/4 MIP fitting, then why not remove the gauge, and attach to the gauge a 1/4 FIP to 1/4 MFL (or if you can't find that fitting, a 1/4 coupling then a 1/4 MIP to 1/4 MFL). Then make a real short piece of tubing with a 1/4 FFL swivel nut to barb and on the other end of that tube put a barb to 1/4 MIP. Now you can easily detach the gauge at the MFL/FFL connection.
Click to expand...

Good idea...a detachable gauge would be sweet. However, I'm worried I'll screw it up. Right now, I'm submersing most of the filler and spraying certain parts with starsan solution.

Rundownhouse said:
Can't you just stick a drilled stopper on the Blichmann and fill under pressure that way?
Click to expand...

I"m running this through my head right now. You would lack the ability to vent the gas from the bottle via the pressure relief, but you could just burp the stopper to vent. I would be willing to try this with my Blichmann if someone can convince me that I won't blow up the bottle (I don't know how I could...the co2 is regulated at 12psi).

The only downside I see is that you still lack the adjustable pressure on device. The thing I like so much about the B3 CPBF is the adjustable relief valve on the side...it's basically flow control when filling. If I stoppered the Blichmann, I guess it would basically turn into an expensive Biermuncher bottle filler with the ability to pressurize the bottle first and hit with co2 before capping.

If we could flow control a stoppered Blichmann Beergun, it would probably be the best of both worlds - easier operation than a CPBF but still counter pressured.
 
Rundownhouse said:
Can't you just stick a drilled stopper on the Blichmann and fill under pressure that way?
Click to expand...

Potentially. It might get messy as you try to expel excess foam/liquid like the morebeer valve does. It's a lot slower to burp a stopper though.
 
I highly recommend the Boonie bottle filler attachment for the Perlicks. It works great plus you can fill at serving pressure and it only requires about 2 ft of hose.

And for those that want to control pressure with a stopper, simply use a basketball needle.
 
heckels said:
I highly recommend the Boonie bottle filler attachment for the Perlicks. It works great plus you can fill at serving pressure and it only requires about 2 ft of hose.

And for those that want to control pressure with a stopper, simply use a basketball needle.
Click to expand...

It's only an option for people with perlicks. Also, I've used the bowie bottle filler before and wasn't a huge fan except for growlers. It's basically the same mechanism as the Biermuncher bottle filler - filling a bottle under pressure but not purging with co2 beforehand. The basketball needle is a big improvement as it's a lot easier to vent gas with your thumb over the needle hole rather than burping the entire stopper.

Granted, I'm sure it's a lot of user error, but I had a few issues where it created a huge mess because the o-rings weren't seated properly after inserting it into the faucet. It required a lot of fidgeting to get it seated without ripping those o-rings...had to have keg lube ready when using it.
 
heckels said:
I highly recommend the Boonie bottle filler attachment for the Perlicks. It works great plus you can fill at serving pressure and it only requires about 2 ft of hose.

And for those that want to control pressure with a stopper, simply use a basketball needle.
Click to expand...

I have one, and I also primarily use it to fill a friend a growler of bomber. It doesn't purge with co2, so I don't use it for long term storage, but otherwise I like it.
 
I use the bowie also and it's been working great. Though before I bought that, I never had a problem just stuffing fill tube into the perlick. Always seemed to work fine for me, but I did like the idea of something purpose built.
Though it doesn't purge the o2 from the bottle, when filling I just let a little foam come out of the top, then slide the cap over the foam. That pushes the o2 out just fine.
I've stored bottles using this method for quite a while (I would guess around a year) and never had any oxidation flavors in the beer.
 
Full Disclosure: I have a Blichmann Beer Gun and love it. I have never used a CPBF.

I did a great deal of research on the pros and cons of the beer gun vs the cpbf (specifically looking at Morebeer's deluxe model). I chose the beer gun because of the ease of use. When done correctly it really does give a great product, with nearly no foaming or loss of C02. Yes, a CPBF will give you a slightly better fill, but it is a more involved process. I am usually a victim of Murphy's Law, so I was also worried about my grip slipping while using the CPBF and spraying precious beer all over my kitchen.

As a side note, because it will come up, I previously used the "Biermuncher bottle filler." I always had problems with leaks, and usually lost the contents of one or two beers while filling. I also made a huge mess every time I used it.
 
I have a MoreBeer Deluxe CPBF (with pressure gauge) which I used for the first time today. I built a bottling station for this to make it really easy to use and it worked great. I was going to take some pics but discovered the batteries in my camera have run down - I'll post some pics in a new thread sometime this week. The bottling station works like this: the CPBF is mounted on standoffs (long bolts) to a flat plate which moves vertically in rails. The plate is spring loaded, trying to pull the plate and attached CPBF down and force the cork into the bottle. Under the bottom of the bottle is a trap door on a hinge with a latch to lock it in place during filling. So I put a bottle onto the CPBF and push it up a little and close the trapdoor under it - the door latches shut. Now I have both hands free - I pressurize the bottle, then open the vent to back off about 1/2 PSI to let the bottle vent for about 15 seconds. While the bottle is being flushed with CO2, I cap the previous bottle (tip - if the headspace isn't full of foam, you can tap the side of the bottle with something metal to make more foam - I used a wrench). After the bottle is flushed, I close the vent, switch to beer, open the vent enough to start beer flowing in slowly, and while this is taking place I sanitize another bottle on my Vinator.
Another thing I came up with is instead of prechilling the bottles, I chilled a couple of gallons of StarSan - I put my Vinator in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket and poured in StarSan until the Vinator was just about to float - I think I had about 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 gallons. Sanitizing the bottles with cold StarSan also chills the bottles and wets them which is supposed to help reduce foam.

I found this setup really easy to use. I have never used a beergun, but I have tried the BMBF and it was a mess. I admit I didn't chill the bottles that time, but I had way too much foam and lost a lot of beer. With my CPBF bottling station, on the other hand, I lost very little beer to foam and felt like I was totally in control of the process. Just my $0.02.
 
DeafSmith said:
I have a MoreBeer Deluxe CPBF (with pressure gauge) which I used for the first time today. I built a bottling station for this to make it really easy to use and it worked great. I was going to take some pics but discovered the batteries in my camera have run down - I'll post some pics in a new thread sometime this week. The bottling station works like this: the CPBF is mounted on standoffs (long bolts) to a flat plate which moves vertically in rails. The plate is spring loaded, trying to pull the plate and attached CPBF down and force the cork into the bottle. Under the bottom of the bottle is a trap door on a hinge with a latch to lock it in place during filling. So I put a bottle onto the CPBF and push it up a little and close the trapdoor under it - the door latches shut. Now I have both hands free - I pressurize the bottle, then open the vent to back off about 1/2 PSI to let the bottle vent for about 15 seconds. While the bottle is being flushed with CO2, I cap the previous bottle (tip - if the headspace isn't full of foam, you can tap the side of the bottle with something metal to make more foam - I used a wrench). After the bottle is flushed, I close the vent, switch to beer, open the vent enough to start beer flowing in slowly, and while this is taking place I sanitize another bottle on my Vinator.
Another thing I came up with is instead of prechilling the bottles, I chilled a couple of gallons of StarSan - I put my Vinator in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket and poured in StarSan until the Vinator was just about to float - I think I had about 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 gallons. Sanitizing the bottles with cold StarSan also chills the bottles and wets them which is supposed to help reduce foam.

I found this setup really easy to use. I have never used a beergun, but I have tried the BMBF and it was a mess. I admit I didn't chill the bottles that time, but I had way too much foam and lost a lot of beer. With my CPBF bottling station, on the other hand, I lost very little beer to foam and felt like I was totally in control of the process. Just my $0.02.
Click to expand...

Really interested in seeing that setup. Sounds awesome!
 
I use and love the Blichman worth every penny. I bottle at 12 psi with what I call little foaming, what foam I get I let settle out and drink so there is no waste. I bottled 15 gallons of beer the other night in 2 hours ( thats clean sanitize cool fill cap and store) and had only 1 liter of foam. Which of course I drank.
 
I love my Bowie Bottle Filler. I installed the ball needle "bleeder" from the start. I only use it occasionally to fill a few bottles here and there but it works great, especially for the money. There was a little bit of a learning curve but I have it down to where I don't spill a drop.
 
BrewThruYou said:
Good idea...a detachable gauge would be sweet. However, I'm worried I'll screw it up. Right now, I'm submersing most of the filler and spraying certain parts with starsan solution.
Click to expand...

I used my MoreBeer CPBF a few days ago (unmodified), but went ahead and modified it today as I described (see my Bottling Station thread in the DIY forum). I think it is going to work fine. That gauge must have been screwed into the T by a gorilla - I had to clamp the T in my vise (T at an angle so the vise only clamped the T) and really put some force on the wrench. Nothing damaged, though. I did notice a little bit of a white crusty deposit just inside the entrance to the gauge - don't know what it is that got up into there - maybe some of the OxiClean solution I ran through to clean it. Makes me feel even better about being able to remove the gauge for cleaning. Of course the gauge can be rotated at the swivel nut, even after tightening, so you don't have to worry about the gauge coming out upside down.
 
I recently got a blichmann gun. Don't have much experience with it yet other than helping my nephew with a school project. Tried using it to bottle "red bull" style energy drink. Added extra line but still was getting a lot of foam so added a cork to the beer gun to try and pseudo-counter pressure fill. The beer gun does NOT hold pressure. The design is a tube with in a tube and there is no seal on the mechanical pieces that hold it together. So all the pressure comes out of the fittings (including all the beer).

Despite not holding pressure I would still recommend that purchase if you have it in your budget. Still it sounds like a well constructed CPF has some advantages for someone striving for perfection but is more hassle overall and the benefits may not be worth it for the casual bottle filler. (Disclaimer: have never used a CPF other than cobra tap on racking cane with a cork)
 
BrewThruYou said:
It's only an option for people with perlicks.
Click to expand...

I swear that i have seen a similar insert for non-perlick faucets. The rest of it is a #3 stopper frozen and carefully drilled (standard drilled diameter being too big) and a bottle filler wand.

But i cannot think of the link at this hour, at this level of inebriation, I cannot recall which vendor.

I think i have it bookmarked at work.
 
OK, not too drunk to search all over google.

Here is the "growler filler" fitting for non-perlick faucets, as sold by some ebay vendor:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heavy-Duty-...ltDomain_0&hash=item53edb2636b#ht_2534wt_1163

This allows you to assemble a "bowie bottler" for a non-perlick faucet. If you have a drill press, or a friend with a drill press, and maybe some dry ice to keep re-freezing your stopper with.

As for flushing with co2, well, you have a keg you have a co2 tank. shoot a bunch of co2 into the bottle first.
 
I have a Blichman and have also done the bottlefiller-in-a-faucet technique. I like the beergun because I can shoot a little CO2 into the bottle before filling to give it a little purge. I also use the Blichman to bottle wine from a keg, it's very nice for that too, especially with the bottle purging feature.
 
Yeah, I didn't care much for the DIY "we don't need now stinking beer gun". Maybe it was user error but was more effort than worth for me. Anyway the OP asked for opinions about beer gun vs. CPF.
 
megalomani said:
Yeah, I didn't care much for the DIY "we don't need now stinking beer gun". Maybe it was user error but was more effort than worth for me. Anyway the OP asked for opinions about beer gun vs. CPF.
Click to expand...

He asked about building a CPF versus buying a beer gun. The stopper tube is as cheap/easy a keg-beer-filler as you can get, and does work off of pressure.
 
megalomani said:
Still it sounds like a well constructed CPF has some advantages for someone striving for perfection but is more hassle overall and the benefits may not be worth it for the casual bottle filler. (Disclaimer: have never used a CPF other than cobra tap on racking cane with a cork)
Click to expand...

I pretty much agree with this having owned almost every option - Bowie bottle filler, Biermuncher's BF, BeerGun and MoreBeer Deluxe CPF.

Although the CPF and Beergun have really similar setup times (CPF being slightly faster in my case since my CPF has threaded fittings), the actual filling of bottles is just way faster on the Blichmann. Basically, I'm keeping the CPF and Biermuncher BF. The CPF is for competitions, gifts and if I have a lot of time on my hands. The Biermuncher is used for filling growlers. The Beergun is a good device, don't get me wrong...but for the limited amount of bottling I do, I like the CPF better...and it all has to do with the pressure relief valve being able to precisely control the flow and therefore control the foam.
 
Just an out there question, but if a rubber stopper was added onto the filler tube of the Blichman Beer gun, this would then pressurize the bottle when purging it with CO2. Making it a counter pressure gun.
Would there be any benefit to filling, ie. less foam.
I have nothing but problems with my Beergun
 
plotto said:
Just an out there question, but if a rubber stopper was added onto the filler tube of the Blichman Beer gun, this would then pressurize the bottle when purging it with CO2. Making it a counter pressure gun.
Would there be any benefit to filling, ie. less foam.
I have nothing but problems with my Beergun
Click to expand...

no a stopper would do nothing CO2 escapes from the back of the gun also. I use the beer gun all the time and I have it down to a science. I will lose about 2 oz of beer per full corny keg, I then drink those 2 oz equaling no waste.
 
Resurrecting this thread.....

For those of you who have the CPF with pressure gage, how do you sanitize the CPF without damaging the gage? I like to immerse my equipment in sanitizer and let it sit for a while, but letting the gage contact liquid can't be good for it.

Do you take the gage off while sanitizing and then put it back on? Somehow I doubt that.

Comments?

Thanks.
 

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