Black IPA help

[ndrice]

I made this Black IPA the other day and submitted it to a homebrew contest. Admittedly it was probably a bit past its prime, but I figured what the hell. Got the feedback that there was "an overuse of dark grains and an 'orange pith' bitterness."

I specifically used the hops I used because they have an orange/citrus flavor profile and that's what I was going for. The notes also said that I should shoot for more of a "Cascadian Dark Ale profile." I kind of just rolled my eyes at that.

So could you guys critique this recipe and see where I might change things up a bit? I normally don't like Black IPAs at all, but I liked this one.

5 Gallon batch

13.00 lbs American 2-row (88.14%)
8.00 oz Caramel 80L (3.39%)
8.00 oz Dark Wheat malt (3.39%)
4.00 oz Chocolate malt (1.69%)
4.00 oz Caramel 60L (1.69%)
4.00 oz De-bittered black malt (1.69%)

1.00 oz Admiral hops (14.75 AA) 60 minutes
2.00 oz Admiral hops (14.75 AA) 10 minutes
2.00 oz Admiral hops (14.75 AA) 5 minutes
2.00 oz Admiral hops (14.75 AA) 0 minutes
2.00 oz Admiral hops (14.75 AA) 4 day dry hop

Mashed at 154 for 60 minutes.

US-05 for the yeast. OG was 1.070 (I was working through some efficiency issues) Fermented at 65 until it bottomed out at 1.016.

I was thinking next time of dropping the de-bittered black and cutting the dark wheat in half, but I was shooting for a chocolate covered oranges kind of flavor and wanted to keep a bit of that "dark' flavor around.

 

[JLem]

Sounds like you got the beer you were looking for, but that it didn't quite fit the "black IPA" style. Not every beer you make will or has to fit into a style. If you like the roastiness of this beer then don't change it, but if you want it to do well in competitions, you might consider dropping some of the dark grains - perhaps the chocolate malt and/or dark wheat (or at least cutting it down). I would keep the de-bittered black.

Also, how is your mash pH? If it is too high, you'll extract tannins, which can give you an unwanted astringency.

 

[ndrice]

Yeah, I liked this one and people I shared it with liked it. I've come to the conclusion that brewing good beer and brewing competition beer sometimes occupy different circles of the Venn diagram.

Thanks for the input. I really do need to invest in a pH meter. I'd like to bring my beer to that next level.

 

[brewbeerry]

I totally agree with you, different worlds. I would definitely drop the chocolate malt and maybe the crystal 80L. I've never used dark wheat or debittered malt so cant comment on that. I usually cap my mash with black patent and enjoy the amount of roast I get from it. In competition judges noted too much roast even though I thought it was one of my better entries

 

[Buxton]

I think it sounds like the judges were grasping for some sort of feedback that they could give you. I also think that it sounds like they weren't as familiar with Black IPA/Cascadian Dark Ale's as they probably should have been. If you loved the beer, then that is all that should matter. However if you wanted to change your recipe I would suggest a couple things; firstly, try using Carafa III instead of de-bittered black malt. In my experience, it actually adds less bitter acrid character than even de-bittered black malt. I would also recommend steeping your dark malts in the last 15 minutes of the boil rather than adding it to your mash, sparge, or lauter. A friend of mine is the head brewer at deschutes and he informed me that this is how they get the dark SRM in their cascadian dark ale "Hop in the Dark". Anyone who knows this style of beer knows that a cascadian dark ale is the SAME EXACT thing as a black IPA, just an argument between the BJCP and people of the Cascadian region (who invented the style). Steeping your dark grains allows you to get the color you want without the off-putting burnt, bitter, acrid flavors. It also allows you to maintain a more healthy pH level in your mash, thus better efficiency.

Lastly, before I write even more of a novel, try mashing even lower, like 150-152. S-05 should attenuate below 1.016 and definitely ferment higher than 65, shoot for 68-72. I think it is cool that you single hopped this beer, it really showcases that hop, apparently the judges were looking for more variety, that is a decision that should be left up to you. Perhaps try adding Amarillo, cascade, citra, mosiac, or some other citrisy hop if you want a more rounded hop profile, but like I said there is nothing wrong with a single hop beer. I plan on doing a black pale ale this weekend using only Galaxy hops. Hope this helps.

 

[TangoHotel]

I just worked a black ipa this last weekend and used debittered black malt and 6oz of homegrown nugget. I won't submit it, as it won't fit any profile, but it smells amazing and the sweet wort was tasty. Can't wait until it is finished.

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