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lglenny99

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There is so much great info here and so many options. Here is my deal. I have been doing extract 5 gallon brews. I want to switch to all grain BIAB and brew in my basement due to space and better temperatures (it gets cold in the winter here). So here is my question. I am looking at $500 to $800 in cash to buy my large kettle, heat source, temp control, and new thermometer. Any recommendations on a nice setup. I can possibly increase the budget if need but want to buy once and not have buyers regret. Thanks for the insight. I like the idea of electric but only have a 110 line where I am brewing. Not sure on propane gas in a open room with concrete floors in a basement.
 
If you want to go electric 120v, best to have two circuits available or you must be extremely patient. Hoping 20 amp circuit???

What amp is your 120v circuit. ?

Running another 120v circuit is rather simple or perhaps an extension cord?
 
Propane is definitely not recommended; maybe NG, but electric recommended for indoors. I agree with Wilser. I have one of his bags (almost 4 years old and finally about ready to be replaced), a 20G Spike kettle, 3.5KW Avantco induction heater (240V), 1.8KW hot rod heat stick, all for well under your price target. You could go 1.8KW/120V induction. Induction is nice because you don't need to install a heater in a pot, but it can't be controlled by an automated controller. Heat stick or installed heating element can be controlled by a PID such as Inkbird or many similar ones.
 
You'll have buyers regret no matter what you got if you're using 110v

220v 30a minimum or you'll regret it. That's an electric dryer plug.

You'll want a 5000-5500 watt element. 110v @ 20a is 2200 watts. That might be OK for holding mash temp but not for boiling.

I built my controller for 240 @ 50a but that's to do back to back brews. For a single element at 5500 watt and 240v, I'll be Just under 23a. My boil element at 5500 already takes enough time to go from sparge temp to boil.
 
Silentdrinker said:
You'll have buyers regret no matter what you got if you're using 110v

220v 30a minimum or you'll regret it. That's an electric dryer plug.

You'll want a 5000-5500 watt element. 110v @ 20a is 2200 watts. That might be OK for holding mash temp but not for boiling.

I built my controller for 240 @ 50a but that's to do back to back brews. For a single element at 5500 watt and 240v, I'll be Just under 23a. My boil element at 5500 already takes enough time to go from sparge temp to boil.
Click to expand...


While I agree, more power is better and faster, many satisfied users are brewing with 120v.

Several all in one units such as Grainfather and Mash and Boil are only 1650w and are selling like hot cakes and users praise them, how's that happening?
 
wilserbrewer said:
While I agree, more power is better and faster, many satisfied users are brewing with 120v.

Several all in one units such as Grainfather and Mash and Boil are only 1650w and are selling like hot cakes and users praise them, how's that happening?
Click to expand...

It's happening because of the internal heating element, not external. If you put the pot on a hot plate, you lose too much heat to the air around the pot. Put the element directly in the liquid and it will be more efficient. Put in a higher wattage element and it will heat faster yet.
 
I will check my options further for the 220 as time is a great thing to save. Thats the whole reason I want to switch as the stove top isnt cutting it in the house. The issue us the electric panel is just far away and through a lot of finished walls. I was trying to keep it near my sump and water supplies to add a utility sink next to the table for easy cleaning etc. I did look at a few internal temp setups such as Blichmann™ 120V Electric Boilermaker Fahrenheit (7.5, 10 Gallon). SO from what I am reading from everyone I need to spend the time and money on getting the 220 ran. Any specific kettle or heat elements if I go with the 220? Also I have read a lot of people went with 10 gallon kettles for BIAB and wished they had done 15g. I only plan to do 5g final batches but is it really worth the extra cost for the space?
This is all great info and I really appreciate it.
 
If you are going to go in kettle, maybe talk to Spike. When I was thinking of going electric I spoke with them and they can do a custom setup where they will cut and held the holes for the heater element and include the element. So its basically ready to go when you get it. I would also say get the electric outlet situation upgraded and set, you won't regret it. What about ventilation? Indoor you need to move all that moisture out of the space. This is why I put off my electric setup, when I looked into it, all the things needed to do it right really started adding up. Good luck.
 
wilserbrewer said:
While I agree, more power is better and faster, many satisfied users are brewing with 120v.

Several all in one units such as Grainfather and Mash and Boil are only 1650w and are selling like hot cakes and users praise them, how's that happening?
Click to expand...

Have you heard about the pet rock? Enough said.
 
Silentdrinker said:
Have you heard about the pet rock? Enough said.
Click to expand...

I brewed 5.5gal high grav batch last night on my Mash and Boil which ended up being 5hrs start to finish (beer into ferm and just starting to clean which prob took 30 min total). It's quite possible to brew 5-6gal batches on 1600-2200w systems you just need to be patient and realize your brewday is going to be a little longer. Upside is I had less .75gal boil-off
 
You definitely DON'T need to run 220. My setup with two 1500w elements plugged into separate circuits like wilser mentioned heats to strike quickly, follows stepped mash profiles with precision, then heats up to boil in just a few minutes, without the lid. It easily maintains a full rolling boil with my controller throttling the elements back to 85%. Go with two 120v elements and an auber ezboil unit, you won't regret it.
 
RM-MN said:
It looks like you have a bit more than just a rolling boil going. It might be fine to unplug one element once you got the boil started. :mug:
Click to expand...

Sometimes i do, sometimes i don't. But i really like the most vigorous boil i can get.
 
I thought a brew rig had to be 100% solid stainless, anything else will poison you. It also has to have quick disconnects and silicone tubing running all over the place dripping hot sticky wort onto any exposed skin. I also heard it brews better beer if the stainless has some really cool designs etched into it (kinda like a car goes faster if you paint flames on it)

:)
 
Jayjay1976 said:
You definitely DON'T need to run 220. My setup with two 1500w elements plugged into separate circuits like wilser mentioned heats to strike quickly, follows stepped mash profiles with precision, then heats up to boil in just a few minutes, without the lid. It easily maintains a full rolling boil with my controller throttling the elements back to 85%. Go with two 120v elements and an auber ezboil unit, you won't regret it.
Click to expand...

This is misleading to say the least.

You technically are running a 30a 3000watt 220v system. You’re just doing it in a different way by using two outlets, hopefully, on two different breakers.

110v on 15a gives you 1,650 watts. Your element at 100% is 1,500 watts. That’s 13.6 amps or 91%. You wouldn’t want anything else running on that breaker when you have the element on. Having them on 20a breakers would be better.

I also imagine not many people have two outlets close to each other that are on two dedicated breakers. So now we’re introducing extension cords, and depending on length, that could drop the amperage once it gets to the element, but it’s unlikely to be of any concern.

These are rough numbers but at 5 gallon volume, a true 15a 1500watt 110v system would take almost an hour to go from 60f (and tap water could be much colder during the winter, warmer during the summer depending where the location is) to 166f, an approximate temp needed to hit roughly 153 for the mash.

Then from 153f to boiling at 212f it’ll take another 30min. These numbers consider 98% efficiency for heat transfer since submerged elements are almost 100%. It’ll add about 5min if an extra gallon is added, 10min if two added...etc.

So ultimately you are advising a 220v setup and offering an unorthodox solution to achieve it.

For a BIAB full volume setup, a 110v systems can work, the person will just have to add onto their brew day. It’s a question of how long you want to wait.
 
I have a single 110V element in my kettle. If I want to speed things up, I use a HotRod and a 12ft extension cord to a second 110V circuit. A lot depends on what is available to you in the space you plan to use, but there are alternatives for most situations.

In my case, I pull the HotRod once I reach a vigorous boil and let the single element maintain a low/moderate boil.
 
Silentdrinker said:
This is misleading to say the least.

You technically are running a 30a 3000watt 220v system. You’re just doing it in a different way by using two outlets, hopefully, on two different breakers.

110v on 15a gives you 1,650 watts. Your element at 100% is 1,500 watts. That’s 13.6 amps or 91%. You wouldn’t want anything else running on that breaker when you have the element on. Having them on 20a breakers would be better.

I also imagine not many people have two outlets close to each other that are on two dedicated breakers. So now we’re introducing extension cords, and depending on length, that could drop the amperage once it gets to the element, but it’s unlikely to be of any concern.

These are rough numbers but at 5 gallon volume, a true 15a 1500watt 110v system would take almost an hour to go from 60f (and tap water could be much colder during the winter, warmer during the summer depending where the location is) to 166f, an approximate temp needed to hit roughly 153 for the mash.

Then from 153f to boiling at 212f it’ll take another 30min. These numbers consider 98% efficiency for heat transfer since submerged elements are almost 100%. It’ll add about 5min if an extra gallon is added, 10min if two added...etc.

So ultimately you are advising a 220v setup and offering an unorthodox solution to achieve it.

For a BIAB full volume setup, a 110v systems can work, the person will just have to add onto their brew day. It’s a question of how long you want to wait.
Click to expand...

Did you see where I said two separate circuits? They are both 20A gfci outlets in my kitchen, less than 5 feet apart, ON SEPARATE BREAKERS, and the 10/3 cabling I chose is rated for much higher current than they will ever see in my setup. I fill my kettle with hot tap water then I hit the start button and measure out hops, mill my malt, etc. while it heats to strike. When it reaches strike temp it beeps to let me know and precisely holds that temp till I'm ready to mash in. My step mash routine takes the temp up to 170 over the 90 minute total mash time, then I raise the bag and switch to boil mode and hit start. It reaches a boil just in time for me to finish dealing with the bag, seems like about 20-25 minutes. The kettle is insulated with three wraps of reflectix, but it really didn't make much difference in heating times, it's mostly to hold mash temps. This setup runs plenty fast for me, you are the one who is mislead.

Next weekend when I'm brewing a batch I'll use a stopwatch and benchmark every step of the process, just for argument's sake. I chose 1500w elements to leave ample head space on the two 20A circuits, and was dreading the performance that decision would cost me, but it far exceeded my expectations and I'm really glad I went that route. I run a continuous recirc throughout the mash while stirring frequently, and even with the heat losses through the tubing, fittings, pump, etc. it still has plenty of power, is very responsive, and boils vigorously. Overall I'm thrilled with the performance of whole system.
 
On a side note, residential wiring codes in my neck of the woods require two separate 20a circuits in a kitchen, not including electric stoves, etc. so check your breaker box and determine which outlets are on each circuit. In my case one plugs in to a countertop outlet on the backsplash, the other plugs into an outlet on the kitchen island. My rolling brew stand sits right in between them in front of the sink. This worked out perfectly for me since I cannot modify wiring making a regular 220v setup impossible.
 
On a side note to that side note, it occurs to me that outlets and ceiling light fixtures in the same room are often on different circuits as well. Screw an adapter into a light fixture and viola! you have your two circuits in the same room.
 
Jayjay1976 said:
Did you see where I said two separate circuits? They are both 20A gfci outlets in my kitchen, less than 5 feet apart, ON SEPARATE BREAKERS, and the 10/3 cabling I chose is rated for much higher current than they will ever see in my setup. I fill my kettle with hot tap water then I hit the start button and measure out hops, mill my malt, etc. while it heats to strike. When it reaches strike temp it beeps to let me know and precisely holds that temp till I'm ready to mash in. My step mash routine takes the temp up to 170 over the 90 minute total mash time, then I raise the bag and switch to boil mode and hit start. It reaches a boil just in time for me to finish dealing with the bag, seems like about 20-25 minutes. The kettle is insulated with three wraps of reflectix, but it really didn't make much difference in heating times, it's mostly to hold mash temps. This setup runs plenty fast for me, you are the one who is mislead.

Next weekend when I'm brewing a batch I'll use a stopwatch and benchmark every step of the process, just for argument's sake. I chose 1500w elements to leave ample head space on the two 20A circuits, and was dreading the performance that decision would cost me, but it far exceeded my expectations and I'm really glad I went that route. I run a continuous recirc throughout the mash while stirring frequently, and even with the heat losses through the tubing, fittings, pump, etc. it still has plenty of power, is very responsive, and boils vigorously. Overall I'm thrilled with the performance of whole system.
Click to expand...

This is exactly how i rigged my ghetto brew rig. Except i'm in Portugal and use 220V.
 
whovous said:
On a side note to that side note, it occurs to me that outlets and ceiling light fixtures in the same room are often on different circuits as well. Screw an adapter into a light fixture and viola! you have your two circuits in the same room.
Click to expand...

Except, you get no ground connection from a screw in adapter. You can work around this, but it's also easy to mess up and end up with no ground if you're connecting/disconnecting elements. Also, I'm not aware of any GFCI's that will work with only hot and neutral available (the test button needs a ground connection.)

Brew on :mug:
 
whovous said:
On a side note to that side note, it occurs to me that outlets and ceiling light fixtures in the same room are often on different circuits as well. Screw an adapter into a light fixture and viola! you have your two circuits in the same room.
Click to expand...


Sorry, I think this maybe a bad idea. Running high wattage through the light fixture wiring is not a good idea imo.

Never seen a 1500w light bulb :) and light fixture wiring is typically thin, not to be confused with thhn wire.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
doug293cz said:
Except, you get no ground connection from a screw in adapter. You can work around this, but it's also easy to mess up and end up with no ground if you're connecting/disconnecting elements. Also, I'm not aware of any GFCI's that will work with only hot and neutral available (the test button needs a ground connection.)

Brew on :mug:
Click to expand...

That makes complete sense. It seemed like a good idea at first... but I clearly did not think it through.

I am happy to report that I have two grounded outlets on separate circuits for own rig.
 
To defend Silentdrinker, maybe he didn't pay sufficient attention to Jayjay1976's particular comments about his setup, but I think his general comment is valid. If you're going to use 2 110V heaters, you just need to be sure that you have 2 outlets on separate breakers. Sounds like this is a pretty common occurrence in most kitchens.
 
wilserbrewer said:
Sorry, I think this maybe a bad idea. Running high wattage through the light fixture wiring is not a good idea imo.

Never seen a 1500w light bulb :) and light fixture wiring is typically thin, not to be confused with thhn wire.
Click to expand...

Don’t forget the lack of GFCI too.

cbier60 said:
To defend Silentdrinker, maybe he didn't pay sufficient attention to Jayjay1976's particular comments about his setup, but I think his general comment is valid. If you're going to use 2 110V heaters, you just need to be sure that you have 2 outlets on separate breakers. Sounds like this is a pretty common occurrence in most kitchens.
Click to expand...

I did see that. I’m not challenging or questioning his method. There’s nothing wrong with it as long as it’s properly done. My comment of “hopefully” was in general for those who think they can follow this advice with out verifying their electrical simply because someone has tried it and it worked fine for them. And that kind of mentality of, ‘he did it, so it must work,’ is strong within this community.

A lot of old houses wouldn’t be setup the same. Plus I imagine a lot of them lack ground fault circuit interrupters and that’s really important for electric brewing.

People blindly follow advice and some people give bad advice, like using a light socket, or neglect to provide the full picture. I’m not saying he’s giving bad advice; he’s not. It’s just lacking some info since his electrical is to date and even beyond the minimum requirement with the 10/3 wiring.

I know there are people who assume overloading a circuit means plugging too many things into one outlet. They don’t realize it’s not about the quantity of devices or the receptacle that matters. Plus they have no idea what a GFCI is and how important it is for safety. The wire shield on the element can easily crack exposing a live wire with out detection until it’s too late.

Hell, look at how many people burn their house down each year trying to fry a turkey. And that’s a relatively straight forward common sense sort of thing.

Electricity is dangerous as it is, adding water increases the danger. And using unorthodox methods to avoid properly powering your electric setup could increase that danger further. Ghetto setups aren’t uncommon, but it’s less of an issue when it’s a ghetto ferm chamber or fermenter.

52CC8CF6-4841-45E7-BC69-04DDDB93CB2F.jpeg

2075E88C-B674-4057-A682-DB376A2CE964.png
 
Well I figured out how to get this.i will have the 220v option just fine. I can tap into a drain and water lines that are running right above the unfinished ceiling. I have been reading on the grainfather, spike, and double element options. Ugh there are so many options. Love all the insight on the electrical options.
 
If you can get your hands dirty you can build from the ground up for around $500 easy. Bru Gear has their 10 gallon SS kettle for $90 plus shipping and all the parts for the element and controller is easily under $300. Leaving you money left over to hire an electrician to run the new 240v four wire circuit to your basement. You can do 120v but it does take a while to get to temperature. I have been using an old Electrim Bin plastic bucket with 2750 watt element in a 240v plug for ever. We used to unplug the dryer and brew on top of it. If you don't feel safe wiring your own PID controller you can get BIAB controllers fairly cheap. Add the pump to recirculate during mashing and you have a Grainfather. Best part is you can add to it later.
 
Jambro64 said:
If you can get your hands dirty you can build from the ground up for around $500 easy. Bru Gear has their 10 gallon SS kettle for $90 plus shipping and all the parts for the element and controller is easily under $300. Leaving you money left over to hire an electrician to run the new 240v four wire circuit to your basement. You can do 120v but it does take a while to get to temperature. I have been using an old Electrim Bin plastic bucket with 2750 watt element in a 240v plug for ever. We used to unplug the dryer and brew on top of it. If you don't feel safe wiring your own PID controller you can get BIAB controllers fairly cheap. Add the pump to recirculate during mashing and you have a Grainfather. Best part is you can add to it later.
Click to expand...

Is there a diagram of this. I saw the element etc, but not sure I get how it is hooked up. The only other part missing that the grainfather has is the built in wort chiller also. I do like the idea of building so I can do larger grain amounts if I need. I don't plan on brewing more than a 5 gallon enough to fill a 1/6th barre keg) so I don't need anything huge.
 
lglenny99 said:
Is there a diagram of this. I saw the element etc, but not sure I get how it is hooked up. The only other part missing that the grainfather has is the built in wort chiller also. I do like the idea of building so I can do larger grain amounts if I need. I don't plan on brewing more than a 5 gallon enough to fill a 1/6th barre keg) so I don't need anything huge.
Click to expand...

I used a couple of different youtube videos to get ideas:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za7dSoiVqbA[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGufeODqU6g[/ame]

I am doing a 240v 5500watt element PID controller into that 10 gallon Bru-Gear kettle. I do 5 gallon BIAB batches and now can keg mine as well. There is a great Electric Brewer forum thread on here as well.

As for a wort chiller, I just use an immersion copper coil for now. Would like to upgrade to include a pump and a chiller plate. Might be a while before I get out of the dog house for building this eBIAB system. :)
 
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