BIAB drawbacks?
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Eh...volume is the only thing I've really came across. People will say you can't make big beers and the only reason I find is the size of kettle can't hold the full volume of water and all the grain. I also found that my BIAB beers attenuate a bit more but I think this is due to the full volume thin mashes. I anticipate that now so I mash at a slightly higher temp and add just a bit of some crystal/carapils type malts to counter this in certain styles. Wheat, oats or Melanoidin will work well too. I like this method just because of the time it saves.
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LLBeanJ
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Not really. Batch sizes beyond 5 gallons can be troublesome, but not really if you plan for it. There is a point where it might become impractical, but the same can be said for a cooler. I do a lot of step mashes so the ability to add heat to a mash without having to decoct is for me one of the main advantages of BIAB over using a cooler. If I ever moved away from BIAB to a more traditional MLT setup, I wouldn't use a cooler for this very reason. At this point I don't see that happening, though. Also, you are not restricted to a full volume mash with BIAB. You can easily mash thicker and sparge. It's not a big deal.
True you can definitely still Sparge but the ease of full volume mashing makes brew day that much easier and faster. There really aren't too many drawbacks to this method honestly.
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LLBeanJ
Well-Known Member
Agreed. For simplicity's sake, full-volume BIAB can't be beat, IMO. I don't know about you, though, but when I used to do no-sparge, my efficiency was not all that predictable. It was in the area of 80%, but it would vary quite a bit both up and down. Admittedly, not really a big deal. After changing my process to include a small ambient temp sparge, I found that my efficiency settled in at around 82-83% was has become pretty predictable (as long as I follow my process), even with higher OG brews.
I find if I mash a little longer, mash out and squeeze the bag that it's fairly predictable. I'm still trying to get the 80% numbers but am consistently getting 73%. Admittedly my last beer was at 65% but worked out well for that beer luckily.
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SaguaroMan
Well-Known Member
I've always thought BIAB efficiency was lower than a normal mash regimen. 70s-80% is pretty impressive
The only drawback I can think of is the weight of the wet grainbag. It's not a big deal for 5 gallon batches, but a 12 gallon batch of 1.090 beer would use 40 pounds of two-row, and I can't lift that, let alone once it's absorbed 5 gallons of water (another 40 pounds). If I had a place with for a pulley system and didn't mind a few drips, even that would be ok.
That's my form of working out...I pretend it helps with the dreaded beer gut.
Edit: What do you do with the grain from your system now? I know you at least don't have to worry about lifting the bag out of the mash to produce wort but you still got to deal with a heavy mess of wet grain.
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Edit: What do you do with the grain from your system now? I know you at least don't have to worry about lifting the bag out of the mash to produce wort but you still got to deal with a heavy mess of wet grain.
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chickypad
lupulin shift victim
Yep, weight is the only real drawback I see as well. Being a weakling girl I like to keep the BIAB batches to 3 gal or less - and I embrace the beer gut
. I do consider myself lucky that my city composts, so for my 10+ gal batches I just roll the big bin up to the mash tun and scoop it in.paperairplane
Well-Known Member
Instead of 1 big heavy grain bag - use several smaller bags. Ta da!
Me? Others definitely do it differently, but after I drain the liquid out of the MLT via the bottom drain, I have a tippy dump, so I tilt the MLT over and drop the grain into a big bin. Then, I drag it out the door, and to the compost.
I brew inside, so drips/messes/spills from a lot of wet grain would be a big issue for me.
Nice. After I asked I think I remembered reading that in your interview.
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OswaldvW
Well-Known Member
You can still do big beers, DIPAs, barleywines with BIAB. You may have to reduce the recipe to fit things in your system. I sometimes to 2.5 gallon test batches of things before I bump things up to 5 gallon recipes.
A 2.5 gallon barleywine recipe is still going to give you a case of beer >10% abv.
A 2.5 gallon barleywine recipe is still going to give you a case of beer >10% abv.
I do BIAB and I don't do full volume BIAB (still mash in a round cooler and sparge) so even that can be done. The bag can get heavy to lift for big batches and big beers and the volume needed might get too high, but a double mash is entirely feasible and some commercial brewers do it for their big beers. Now that I think about it, it might even be more convenient to do big beers with the bag since you can pretty much supplement your first mash with a second mash in anything that has the proper volume (a bucket, for example), as long as you have two bags, and then rinse the secong bag in your first mash kettle if you go full volume.
One of the drawbacks that hasn't been mentionned is wort clarity. I've seen pictures of people wort after sparging and recirculating and it is always a tiny bit or lot clearer. My beer still goes clear though.
The efficiency is also a bit lower, but people forget they can mill finer when going BIAB since the mash can't possibly stick.
One of the drawbacks that hasn't been mentionned is wort clarity. I've seen pictures of people wort after sparging and recirculating and it is always a tiny bit or lot clearer. My beer still goes clear though.
The efficiency is also a bit lower, but people forget they can mill finer when going BIAB since the mash can't possibly stick.
Owly055
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I do a very fine crush, and routinely hit right close to or at 90% efficiency..... I squeeze the bag well of course. My recent "speed brew" that used a 10 minute mash hit right dead on 90% efficiency, but attenuation was just a tad low.
H.W.
Foosier
Well-Known Member
The bag can be heavy, but honestly no heavier then other things we routinely lug around on a day to day basis. 40lb bags of softener salt, heavier than my BIAB bag. Loaded suitcase for a trip, heavier than my BIAB bag. A 2 year old child, heavier than my BIAB bag. I am sure there are more...
The real key is figuring out how to make handling the hot wet, sticky bag as easily as possible. The ratchet pulley may be the best method, though I haven't gone there just yet. I just pull my bag and place it in a bucket to let it drain. As the boil comes up to temp I pur the collected wort out of the bucket back into the kettle. No lifting for me...
On a side note, I have a real dark place in my heart for threads which try to find the bad parts of BIAB. The reality is BIAB works and otherwise, YMMV. Where are the threads about "drawbacks of 3 vessel brewing", "why I wish I had never built my brutus 10", "Gravity fed 3 tier brewing things to avoid". All grain brewing is all grain brewing regardless of what tools you use for the process. (steps off soapbox...)
The real key is figuring out how to make handling the hot wet, sticky bag as easily as possible. The ratchet pulley may be the best method, though I haven't gone there just yet. I just pull my bag and place it in a bucket to let it drain. As the boil comes up to temp I pur the collected wort out of the bucket back into the kettle. No lifting for me...
On a side note, I have a real dark place in my heart for threads which try to find the bad parts of BIAB. The reality is BIAB works and otherwise, YMMV. Where are the threads about "drawbacks of 3 vessel brewing", "why I wish I had never built my brutus 10", "Gravity fed 3 tier brewing things to avoid". All grain brewing is all grain brewing regardless of what tools you use for the process. (steps off soapbox...)
Haters gonna hate. The problem with BIAB is it's so dead-easy and cheap that it makes everyone with hugely expensive systems second-guess their choices.
I've switched from partial mash kits to all-grain BIAB for about 70 bucks. Hell of a lot cheaper and easier than building a HLT and MLT AND buying a bigger kettle.
Gee, that's an insult to folks like me that can't lift heavy things. I'm not second guessing my choices- I really do rely on my pumps and tippy dump to save my skinny 135 pound butt, along with my 50+ year old back.
I think it's important to recognize that others' choices may not be your preferences, but I think that to denigrate others' decisions is insulting.
I don't insult folks who do BIAB, or those who have full on automated brewing systems. As long as the beer is good, who cares how they get there?
I'm not sure how I insulted you, but apologies if I did. It certainly wasn't my intent. And I'll be more than willing to cop to the narcissism of youth (my body's always going to work this well, right?). But I think the basic point stands. There was a traditional way to enter all-grain brewing and it was expensive and complicated. BIAB is cheap and easy. You've got a unique set of circumstances and I can appreciate and respect that but for a lot of people BIAB is good enough, if not better than traditional all-grain brewing.
I think the OP question was bascially ASKING for some negatives to BIAB. So you can call people haters, or in this case, helpers.
For me, I love BIAB. I prefer that for small batches I do on my stove in the winter.
Regularly, though, I brew in my cooler mash tun in the garage outside. I built it before BIAB was common. If I had to do it all again, I'd STILL build a Cooler Mash Tun, simply because it's something to build. I would have probably gone to AG sooner using BIAB had I known about it back then, though.
Weight isn't an issue for me. I brew 5 gallons at a time and I carry my MLT out to the compost pile and dump it.
I am not a fan of the cloudy wort. I have a thing where I HAVE to vorlauf and get the preboil wort clear before I collect my running for the BK. I have not heard, other than anecdotal comments, that a clear running will yield clearer beer. I've sampled beers that were BIAB and they seem pretty clear too.
So I think that's just my own OCD thing kicking in. And, I mean, who doesn't want to say VORLAUF! when they are brewing??
For me, I love BIAB. I prefer that for small batches I do on my stove in the winter.
Regularly, though, I brew in my cooler mash tun in the garage outside. I built it before BIAB was common. If I had to do it all again, I'd STILL build a Cooler Mash Tun, simply because it's something to build. I would have probably gone to AG sooner using BIAB had I known about it back then, though.
Weight isn't an issue for me. I brew 5 gallons at a time and I carry my MLT out to the compost pile and dump it.
I am not a fan of the cloudy wort. I have a thing where I HAVE to vorlauf and get the preboil wort clear before I collect my running for the BK. I have not heard, other than anecdotal comments, that a clear running will yield clearer beer. I've sampled beers that were BIAB and they seem pretty clear too.
So I think that's just my own OCD thing kicking in. And, I mean, who doesn't want to say VORLAUF! when they are brewing??
How tight do you crush to get 85% efficiency? .026? Less?
I find dunk sparging gives several more points in efficiency.
For 10 gallon batches, I can't squeeze as well and get lower efficiency than for 5 gallon batches. Use a pully for sure because 25 pounds of wet grain is heavy.
I find dunk sparging gives several more points in efficiency.
For 10 gallon batches, I can't squeeze as well and get lower efficiency than for 5 gallon batches. Use a pully for sure because 25 pounds of wet grain is heavy.
For those who can't lift the grain bag (like me), what I do is place the lid on top of the brewpot at and angle and rest the grain bag on top of it. If done correctly, and carefully, the wort will just trickle down off the lid into the pot. This gives time to rest in between each squeeze of the super hot grain bag as well.
I'm still working on putting up a pulley system but this method works for now.
I'm still working on putting up a pulley system but this method works for now.
Owly055
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Personally, I do a second crush at .010, and get 90% and sometimes better efficiency. My basic starch conversion happens in as little as 5 minutes, and with a half hour mash, I get the same attenuation I was getting with an hour mash....... I think I can get the same result (attenuation) in as little as 20 minutes, but won't know for awhile. The 20 minute mash is my new "standard". I get a small amount more trub.......with each crush size decrease, the trub increases a little bit.
H.W.
pricelessbrewing
Brewer's Friend Software Manager
Hey Owly, what mill are you using by chance? I've been using the lhbs barley crusher, but not sure when the last time it was measured with a feeler gauge. Maybe I should buy one...
Owly055
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I love your spreadsheet!! I use the "El-Cheapo" BC Barley Crusher, which works just fine for me now that I've figured out the issue that's been causing so many people problems. I use a courser crush for my first crush, and I have .010 scribed in for my second crush.
H.W.
pricelessbrewing
Brewer's Friend Software Manager
What was the issue? I've just been turning their mill all the way to the left, which is probably about a .030 ish from the look of the grind and comparing to other pics online. I should ask next time if they have a feeler gauge set.
Thanks! Let me know if you have any requests or issues and I'll see what I can do.
Thanks! Let me know if you have any requests or issues and I'll see what I can do.
craigmw
Well-Known Member
I agree, Yooper. Handling a super hot bag of wet grain is not fun, especially with an 11 gallon batch. So, I've rigged up an Alton Brown-ish turkey derrick and it works great. I have a retractable aluminum ladder and spread it over the kettle. I use a chain around the top rungs to rig up a pulley, and a second pulley with a carabiner to connect up the bag's handles, with some nylon cord strung between the two pulleys. At the end of the mash, I collect the bag handles with the carabiner and then pull the cord to raise the bag out of the kettle. While bringing the mash up to a boil, the bag continues to drip and I squeeze the bag until most of the liquid is removed from the grain. At this point, the bag is much lighter, and so I add it to a Homer bucket/Papazian lauter tun to squeeze out the very last drop. It works great and I've been achieving good mash efficiencies with little trouble. This works especially well for outside brewing when an overhead beam is not available to connect the pulley to.
craigmw
Well-Known Member
I have been brewing for several years with my brew buddy's 3 vessel RIMS system and decided to set up my own. But after reading about BIAB, we decided to try it out first and had good success. So, I have set up my own system and it works great. I've had very good luck with my BIAB brews overall. The main issues brought up as negatives of BIAB include low efficiency, cloudy wort, and limited volume into the fermenter due to the full volume mash requiring large kettles. I think it's been pretty well dispelled that BIAB necessarily results in low mash efficiencies, especially with double crushing at a lower gap. I did notice the issue with cloudy wort, but have been addressing this with a post-boil slow whirlpool using a whirlpool tube output from wort recirculated by a pump through a counterflow chiller. The slow rate whirlpool associated with chilling achieves both proper cooling to fermenting temp, and it results in a tight trub cone in the center of the pot with very clear wort going into the fermenter.
The only issue I have a minor complaint about... the ability to translate certain recipes from 3V to BIAB. Most recipes are fine, especially if they have hop dominated flavor profiles. However, by its nature, full volume mashes used in BIAB mean very thin mashes. This results in greater diastatic enzyme efficiency and reduced protease efficiency. While not typically a problem, I've run into some problems with recipes where a malt forward profile is desired. I think this is just a matter of tweaking the recipe, but it's a bit trial and error to get it right. I'm certainly not knocking BIAB, and it's my go to method most of the time. I've made some very good beers this way, but some recipes just don't turn out the same way as on my friend's 3V RIMS system.
The only issue I have a minor complaint about... the ability to translate certain recipes from 3V to BIAB. Most recipes are fine, especially if they have hop dominated flavor profiles. However, by its nature, full volume mashes used in BIAB mean very thin mashes. This results in greater diastatic enzyme efficiency and reduced protease efficiency. While not typically a problem, I've run into some problems with recipes where a malt forward profile is desired. I think this is just a matter of tweaking the recipe, but it's a bit trial and error to get it right. I'm certainly not knocking BIAB, and it's my go to method most of the time. I've made some very good beers this way, but some recipes just don't turn out the same way as on my friend's 3V RIMS system.
orangehero
Well-Known Member
If you don't have a rope ratchet it's very easy to use a length of paracord and the Canadian Jam Knot to raise the bag up:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzNntgZfHL8[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzNntgZfHL8[/ame]
iamperplexed
Well-Known Member
I do small batch BIAB on the stove in the kitchen during cooler months (several here). It's perfect for my 2.5 gallon kegs and it saves on time and propane. It's also something I can do while working from home, doing housework, cooking dinner, etc. My only real concern is the bag which creeps me out a little, as does the plastic cooler when not using my BIAB configuration. A full stainless system someday will provide a better sense of "food safe" brewing for me. Also, my efficiency suffers no matter how small I crush. All that said, I have more fun brewing with my buddy on his 2-tier pump system.
I have been brewing embarrassingly often on a 2.5 to 4 gallon induction system (biab) and of course the weight is non-issue, but when I brew big batches (up to 10 gallons on a 15 gal pot), I use the Alton brown derrick too. Complete with police line plastic chain and flashing light.
DurtyChemist
Well-Known Member
No one has mentioned draining wort into a bottling bucket and/or fermentor yet. This is an option I've considered for either clearer beer or larger batches. Less water in the mash tun so you don't need to lift the grains all the way out and you can possibly squeeze them before removing them.
A third option is to make a Weisse beer 10 gallon batch. 13-14 lbs grain for 10 gallon batches.
A third option is to make a Weisse beer 10 gallon batch. 13-14 lbs grain for 10 gallon batches.
craigmw
Well-Known Member
For me the only draw back is lifting the wet grain bag. I regularly make 5 gallon batches of 13-16 lbs and I live in an apartment so I don't have the option of setting up a pulley system over my kitchen stove.
I too disliked how cloudy my beers were coming out of the kettle but now I'm moving to a small pump and CFC to both cool and clarify after the boil.
One thing no one has mentioned is how small your brewing setup can be when you BIAB. I can fit everything that I use for the brewing process inside of my brew kettle. With apartment brewing that's a pretty huge deal.
I too disliked how cloudy my beers were coming out of the kettle but now I'm moving to a small pump and CFC to both cool and clarify after the boil.
One thing no one has mentioned is how small your brewing setup can be when you BIAB. I can fit everything that I use for the brewing process inside of my brew kettle. With apartment brewing that's a pretty huge deal.
fuzzy2133
Well-Known Member
I am with the others that the grain bag with 10-15+ lbs can be a challenge to drain and handle when it is hot. Definitely easier with a pulley system in place.
I got tired (literally) of hoisting the full grain bag over the wort, so now I don't even use the bag(s) until after the mash. I mash in my BK without the bag, then use a 1 qt measuring cup to remove the mash to a couple of other pots/buckets with paint strainer bags. For a typical batch with 15 or so pounds of grain, I'll use two bags, three bags for larger amounts (I've done up to 23 lbs). I lift the smaller bags up and place on a colander to drip/squeeze, transfer the wort to the now rinsed out bk, then sparge the bags by splitting the sparge water equally to each of the containers with the bags. This method requires more containers, but it really saves my back and doesn't take any longer.
I see how the knot is used for lashing but how is it used to raise the bag?
orangehero
Well-Known Member
It creates a loop that can be shortened and lengthened easily at the knot and holds the length when tension is applied. Attach the loop to a point in the ceiling, clip a biner to your bag, clip the loop on, lift the bag by pulling the standing end and making the loop shorter.
I can't comment on the maximum you can lift as it can slip, but a 10lb grainbill should be no problem.
You can also use a Midshipman's Hitch:
http://www.animatedknots.com/midshipmans/
If you are skilled in working with rope the Trucker's Hitch would be the best to use, as well as creating a mechanical advantage:
http://www.animatedknots.com/truckers/
I say these are all great knots to know anyway.
I can't comment on the maximum you can lift as it can slip, but a 10lb grainbill should be no problem.
You can also use a Midshipman's Hitch:
http://www.animatedknots.com/midshipmans/
If you are skilled in working with rope the Trucker's Hitch would be the best to use, as well as creating a mechanical advantage:
http://www.animatedknots.com/truckers/
I say these are all great knots to know anyway.
