BIAB (basket vs brewzilla

[Willisja55]

getting into electric all grain home brewing and trying to decide what system I want to go with.(looking to do 5 gallon batches, 10 gallon is a plus but not a must) I have narrowed down to 2 different options. originally I was sold on the brewzilla for many reasons (compact, easy, good review, all electric, fair price)
the other option I am looking into BIAB/ basket (also compact) with a 16 gallon stainless kettle and installing my own 240V element, PID controller, pump and possibly homemade RIMS tube. This would give me the option to expand and change my brewing style easily. This option seems like a no brainer except for 2 things.
(1)the bag in the pot during boil and possibly scotching grains.

(2) lifting out and draining bag at the end of the mash doesn't seem overly practical compared to the grain basket and supports the brewzilla has. I thought I could just purchase a grain basket to solve this problem but I am having a hard time finding one . and even if I do I don't know if it would fit the kettle. Also there is no way of practically sparging if desired.

both a comparable in price, brewzilla seems to be the easy all in one option, not as versatile. Wondering if there is something I am overlooking with the BIAB to make things easier to make it worth taking that route.
Thank you in advance for any of your advice and help.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I am curious...what do you want out of "PID controller, pump and possibly homemade RIMS tube"?

 

[GoeHaarden]

BIAB all the way!!!!

(1)the bag in the pot during boil and possibly scotching grains.

You would remove the bag of grain after the mash, and allow it to drain while you heat to boil. No worry of scotching grain/bag unless you're using an element in the kettle during mashing.

(2) lifting out and draining bag at the end of the mash doesn't seem overly practical compared to the grain basket and supports the brewzilla has. I thought I could just purchase a grain basket to solve this problem but I am having a hard time finding one . and even if I do I don't know if it would fit the kettle. Also there is no way of practically sparging if desired

There are several solutions to this, and a lot of them are quite primitive. A folding ladder and a rope will do. Or a ratcheting hoist and an eye bolt in your ceiling if you're feeling fancy. Wilser BIAB bags sells a bag/hoist kit.

Sparging isn't necessary with BIAB. Usually with an ultra fine crush you can easily get mash efficiency in the 80s.

I am curious...what do you want out of "PID controller, pump and possibly homemade RIMS tube"?

I feel like this is a baiting response to spark some debate whether automation is necessary. In which you later interject your opinion on why it is not. Neither constructive nor helpful to someone asking for advice....

While it's true that automation isn't necessary to make good beer and I'm not sure I can tell the difference when my mash temp drops freely. Some people just like to build stuff.....

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I feel like this is a baiting response to spark some debate whether automation is necessary. In which you later interject your opinion on why it is not. Neither constructive nor helpful to someone asking for advice....

While it's true that automation isn't necessary to make good beer and I'm not sure I can tell the difference when my mash temp drops freely. Some people just like to build stuff.....

Not trying to argue or bait. I purposely did not inject my opinion. For a single step mashing, I see very little benefit from recirculation or PID controllers. I have some desire to try out step mashing for some Belgians, but other than that I am happy with single step mashing (sometimes I will do a mash out, but I have been moving away from it). I could see some advantage to having a pump for whirlpooling or maybe some transfers. I was just curious what the OP was looking for. I was skeptical when I first moved to BIAB (as a lot of people are) but these days I love the simplicity of core BIAB.

If I was starting from scratch, it would be a hard call if I went with my current setup (10 gal pot, BIAB, propane burner, immersion chiller) or a Anvil Foundry. If I had not recently purchased a nice 5 gal pot to support 2.5 gal stove top BIAB, I would probably pull the trigger on one of the 6.5 gallon Anvil Foundry systems.

 

[Bobby_M]

(1)the bag in the pot during boil and possibly scotching grains.

(2) lifting out and draining bag at the end of the mash doesn't seem overly practical compared to the grain basket and supports the brewzilla has. I thought I could just purchase a grain basket to solve this problem but I am having a hard time finding one . and even if I do I don't know if it would fit the kettle. Also there is no way of practically sparging if desired.

1. Coarse false bottom to keep the bag off the element. No need for a RIMS tube when you have an element in the kettle already controlled by a PID.
2. Eyebolt overhead with a locking rope pulley. Sparging is overrated.

 

[Willisja55]

I am curious...what do you want out of "PID controller, pump and possibly homemade RIMS tube"?

I would think a PID controller is needed for electric element temp control for an electric system just like a regulator for a propane system. I think it would be hard to control temp if you didn't have one. I am new to this though so correct me if I am wrong.
pump would be to make transfer easier ( probably not necessary but nice option) also recirculate during mash to help clarity from what I have read. I have read some people do it during boil not that I know why or if it is relevant to me yet.
The homemade rims tube is probably not necessary maybe an add on some day. One thing I did wonder if possibly during mash if it would be better to use rims tube than using the element in the kettle to keep from possibly scorching the bag/ grains. Maybe with the low mash temps the element in kettle will not come on enough or get hot enough for this to be a concern.

 

[RM-MN]

I would think a PID controller is needed for electric element temp control for an electric system just like a regulator for a propane system. I think it would be hard to control temp if you didn't have one. I am new to this though so correct me if I am wrong.
pump would be to make transfer easier ( probably not necessary but nice option) also recirculate during mash to help clarity from what I have read. I have read some people do it during boil not that I know why or if it is relevant to me yet.
The homemade rims tube is probably not necessary maybe an add on some day. One thing I did wonder if possibly during mash if it would be better to use rims tube than using the element in the kettle to keep from possibly scorching the bag/ grains. Maybe with the low mash temps the element in kettle will not come on enough or get hot enough for this to be a concern.

If you like to make a system more complicated and more expensive than necessary to achieve the same result, go for it. The sellers of the hardware will thank you. Otherwise, none of this is necessary with the possible exception of the pump to transfer from the boil kettle to the fermenter.

The beauty of the BIAB system is the ability to mill the grain much finer than a conventional mash tun can work with as the bag forms the filter. You then don't need to control the temperature because with that finely milled grain the conversion happens very quickly, much more quickly than you can imagine. If you recirculate you must use coarser milled grain because the fine material will clog the pores in the bag if the wort is recirculated. That requires longer to get full conversion which means you need to add heat during the mash which then means you need a way to add heat without scorching the bag and to precisely control the temperature. Now you are approaching the limitations of a conventional mash tun.

 

[Bobby_M]

I would think a PID controller is needed for electric element temp control for an electric system just like a regulator for a propane system. I think it would be hard to control temp if you didn't have one. I am new to this though so correct me if I am wrong.
pump would be to make transfer easier ( probably not necessary but nice option) also recirculate during mash to help clarity from what I have read. I have read some people do it during boil not that I know why or if it is relevant to me yet.
The homemade rims tube is probably not necessary maybe an add on some day. One thing I did wonder if possibly during mash if it would be better to use rims tube than using the element in the kettle to keep from possibly scorching the bag/ grains. Maybe with the low mash temps the element in kettle will not come on enough or get hot enough for this to be a concern.

No, having a separate RIMS tube, element and controller for mash temp control is redundant and wasteful when you'll have an element in the kettle on a controller. RIMS tubes are for mash tuns that do not have any other method of heat input.

Recirculation is used to disperse any new heat from the bottom of the kettle up to the rest of the mash. This would be highly recommended if you need to leave the mash unattended for the hour. You can approximate that function by stirring the mash every 10 minutes but it's more labor intensive. The bonus use of a pump is whirlpooling the wort during immersion chilling and then ultimately concentrating the trub/hop pile in the center the kettle where it doesn't all drain out to the fermenter.