Beware eBay seller!!!

[BadWolfBrewing]

I saw this while shopping for an enclosure:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLIDAY-SPE...323?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d381e0e23

For those that don't recognize the picture (or if he removes it), this is an inside shot of Kal's awesome control panel.

I wrote Kal to make sure he was in the know about his pics being ripped off, and his response:

/* quote
This company has a history of issues, including counterfeiting circuit breakers worth millions. I’m surprised they’re still in business.

See: http://m.ice.gov/news/releases/1112/111208jacksonville.htm?f=m
And: http://www.justice.gov/usao/flm/press/2012/nov/20121116_Toldy.html

We no longer deal with them at all for any of our parts.

*/ unquote

I've made a good number of purchases from him, including contactors, switches, indicators, etc...

I'm going to be taking my business elsewhere. We put a lot of time and effort into making sure our electrical breweries are well built and safe. The best design can still cause damage with faulty components though.

This is the first I've seen of counterfit parts from him, so I'm guessing that others are also unaware. Just wanted to point it out so you can all make informed decisions when you buy.

Many thanks to Kal for pointing this out, and for his whole website.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

ohh, I should note. The ebay seller is electrical_parts .

 

[kal]

FWIW, I emailed them to ask that they remove the picture as it's copyright and also deceptive (their enclosure is the wrong size). They complied.

There was some discussion about this company's past practices on the forum here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/uhhh-anyone-see-pioneer-breaker-287420/

Kal

 

[stlbeer]

Yesterday, maybe, they complied. The link in the first post is showing your panel today.

 

[kal]

Probably because the auction is ended and by default it shows the first picture that was (originally) uploaded. No worries.

Kal

 

[pbc_scott]

Hello All,

My name is Scott Simmons and I am the new GM at Pioneer Breaker. I have been reading the articles regarding Pioneer and our Ebay store (Electrical_Parts) regarding the counterfeiting and brewery pictures and would like to offer some comments and hopefully make amends with the brewing community.

First off, I will not make excuses for the behavior of this company in the past. There was a counterfeiting suit and the company and owner are dealing with the results of that suit. I have 2 comments regarding that:

1) There is no counterfeiting going on today; we get our OEM products from legitimate sources and offer generic electrical products that we source from overseas.

2) I took this position specifically to clean up this business and get it on the right track. I have full control of the company and I promise you that we are running everything by the books today. I simply won't risk my reputation engaging in any unethical business practices.

Ebay Pictures: The pictures were removed from EBAY immediately after Kal brought them to my attention.

Pioneer has been mismanaged for a long time. I am in the process of cleaning it up. I have made some headway, but still have a lot to do.

One thing that is fixed here is order accuracy, a process has been implemented to ensure we ship the correct items. If there are any variances we communicate with the customer immediately. Please check out the feedback for electrical_parts on Ebay. It is 100%, that is a direct result of my efforts to operate this company professionally and ethically.

So .... I really would like to do business with the home brewing community. We have several items which work well for the brewing kit that many of you have used. I am open to feedback (positive, negative, ideas, items to carry etc.) to help us be a better solution.

As GM of Pioneer Breaker I am asking for a second chance.
As Scott Simmons, I am asking for a first chance. This company is very different from the Pioneer Breaker of 2012 and before.

I am committed to personally handle any issues with our products and how they are represented and sold.

I can be reached directly at 512.834.1011 or [email protected]

Thank you all for your past and future business.

Scott

 

[kal]

Thanks for posting Scott.

Based on your comments above, I take it that Elod Tamas "Nick" Toldy (who pleaded guilty to the charges) still profits off sales made with this company?

Kal

 

[pbc_scott]

Hi Kal,

He is still the owner of the company so the answer to your question in yes. However, he is not involved in the day to day operations of the company as we have an executive team and board of directors now.

We have 8 employees here who depend on the company for their livelihood and benefit from the profits as well. Our plan is to grow the company and be able to employ more people in the near future.

I can understand your frustration with Tamas and Pioneer in the past. Please realize that there are consequences being paid currently.

There are good and honest people here now just trying to make a living. In some sense its the lessor of 2 evils; he may benefit to some degree, but others do as well. If the company fails, then 8 good people lose their jobs too.

Scott

 

[kal]

Thanks for the honest response Scott.

Kal

 

[MercMan]

It good to see that a failing company can be turned around, even in today's economy.

 

[DubBrew]

So I bought a ton of product from these guys a couple of years ago for my Kal clone. Do I have anything to worry about? Are any of the parts in a Kal clone potentially dangerous or involved in the counterfitting?

 

[pbc_scott]

Tom,

I appreciate your concern. There was 1 type of circuit breaker involved in the counterfeiting suit, all of which were seized. Pioneer has been supplying relays, switches, pilot lights, buzzers and enclosures that fit the brewing application. These products are working fine in this application. Please read some of the comments in this post: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/uhhh-anyone-see-pioneer-breaker-287420/

Please feel free to contact me directly for more information.

Scott 512.834.1011
[email protected]


Scott

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

Scott,

I understand your point about the business being more than just the owner. And the store does provide a lot of what e-brewers need at a good price.

There are two issues. Trust that the products are safe, and a moral objection to the owner's actions.

If a restaurant chooses to sell diseased meat in order to increase their profits, I'm not eating there anymore. Even if they get caught and 'clean up their act', I would never trust them again. I have a doctorate in electro-mechanical engineering. I have seen tiny faults turn into catastrophic failures. The breakers and contactors we use are FOR our protection. If we can't count on them, we might as well go back to propane and stoves.

I think Kal's question sums it up the moral objection. I am hesitant to patronize a company owned by somebody who would act in such a reprehensible way. The act of selling counterfeit breakers could cause somebody their life. And for what, a little money? Whether or not he has 'paid' for that crime, he is still a person that made the unforgivable choice to risk the lives of strangers for profit.

The brewers here get to choose which vendor gets their money. I won't use products that I am unable to trust (and the managers assurance hardly counts as impartial). And I cannot in good conscience choose to patronize your store while he still profits from it.

This comes across as harsh. I guess that is okay, I am feeling pretty harsh about this. Why don't you sign the owner up on homebrewtalk, we can all discuss this directly with him...

 

[pbc_scott]

I appreciate your opinions. The owner is not involved with the operations of the company any more. I will try to address your issues the best I can:

1) Trust in the products - we offer aftermarket products, similar to an aftermarket part you may buy at an auto store. The products are sourced from a manufacturer (we do not design and manufacture the products) and they supply to other companies who are in our market space. Don't take my word for it; I'm sure that if any of the products were failing, that would be all over the forum. I don't think you will find any company that will give you a 100% guarantee that their products won't ever fail.

2) The moral objection - that is entirely up to you. All I can say is that there are good, hardworking people here now. It is me and these folks who are trying to move forward and operate a small business. I can assure you that we are not big enough that the owner is basking in all the profits; we work hard to make ends meet like many other small businesses.

Scott 512.834.1011
[email protected]

 

[metasyntactic]

Can't you just quit en masse and run without the owner? That would seem to be the best option.

 

[pbc_scott]

Well ... short of that .. how can we earn your trust and business?

Scott 512.834.1011
[email protected]

 

[cosmatics]

I can only speak for myself, but just actually responding to the concerns goes a long way to earning trust and future business. I appreciate your efforts and will look towards your products again in the future. Goodluck.

John

 

[dhwl2004]

I agree with cosmatics. I believe I will give the guy a chance.

 

[Lopsy]

"The owner is not involved with the operations of the company any more."

Something doesn't pass the sniff test on that one.



On a side note: I bought "304 SS" compression fittings from China. They rusted by the second brew day and infected my kettles. I've changed to true SS and have still been fighting rust ever since. I'm skeptical to buy anything from China, which isn't fair because I know there is lots of good stuff.

Scott, my point is that you get one chance. If you want a remedy, start a new company with people and morals you trust. Home brewers are lovely people, but hell hath no fury like a home brewer gypped.

 

[pbc_scott]

John & dhwl2004,

Thank you both for your support.

We are all working hard here to make sure we do right by our customers.

Scott 512.834.1011
[email protected]

 

[Yooper]

This is turning into a sales pitch, or at least advertising, for a company. Since that is against our forum rules by non-vendors, I'm closing this thread.