Best way to run 240v service.

[scottseabs]

Hello community,

I am in the midst of changing over to all electric. I’ll be Brewing in my heated garage, can’t wait! I am comfortable with the electric, but have a question about the best method for running wire. I’ll be using a 30a gfci breaker and 4 prong dryer outlet.

The breaker box is on one side of the garage and the Brewing area is on the other, 80+ feet away give or take. I was going to use 10/4 sjooc and just staple it up and out of sight. I was also thinking about running it through the attic above as well, stapling down every 48”

Has anyone had this length of run? If so. What did you end up doing?

Thanks!

 

[MintonHVAC]

Hello community,

I am in the midst of changing over to all electric. I’ll be Brewing in my heated garage, can’t wait! I am comfortable with the electric, but have a question about the best method for running wire. I’ll be using a 30a gfci breaker and 4 prong dryer outlet.

The breaker box is on one side of the garage and the Brewing area is on the other, 80+ feet away give or take. I was going to use 10/4 sjooc and just staple it up and out of sight. I was also thinking about running it through the attic above as well, stapling down every 48”

Has anyone had this length of run? If so. What did you end up doing?

Thanks!

I had a similar problem except I had to run a hundred feet.

I went down to the local Home Depot And picked up some number 8 Romex. I just ran it in my attic and didn't even bother stapling it down.

Number 10 is good for 30 amps but I wouldn't run number 10 at that rating for very long.

If you're elements are going to pull 30 amps I would make your power run the next size up.

 

[scottseabs]

Thanks, MintonHVAC. So if I'll be running one 5500 watt element at a time (30a 240v eBrew set up), because of the length of run, you suggest 8 gauge?

 

[itsnotrequired]

Hello community,

I am in the midst of changing over to all electric. I’ll be Brewing in my heated garage, can’t wait! I am comfortable with the electric, but have a question about the best method for running wire. I’ll be using a 30a gfci breaker and 4 prong dryer outlet.

The breaker box is on one side of the garage and the Brewing area is on the other, 80+ feet away give or take. I was going to use 10/4 sjooc and just staple it up and out of sight. I was also thinking about running it through the attic above as well, stapling down every 48”

Has anyone had this length of run? If so. What did you end up doing?

Thanks!

most places let you run exposed romex cable but it will depend on your jurisdiction. that is what i would do, romex is a lot cheaper than service cord. code let's you go up to 4.5 feet between staples but no problem every 4 feet. if running through the attic, there are some other rules about protecting the cable which vary depending on if the attic has permanent ladder or stair access. at 80 or so feet of length, #10 is fine, no need to go with #8.

 

[scottseabs]

Great, thank you for the reply

 

[MintonHVAC]

Thanks, MintonHVAC. So if I'll be running one 5500 watt element at a time (30a 240v eBrew set up), because of the length of run, you suggest 8 gauge?

Yes. Will give you a little over head for future power requirements and the heating effect on the wire will be a lot less.

22.917 amps would be 5500 watts at 240 volts.

A number 10 wire is rated for 30 amps.
A number 8 wire is rated for 40 amps.
A number 6 wire is rated for 55 amps.

Personally I like to do everything a little Overkill, by all means the number 10 wire will be fine and you would only have a load around 77% on that circuit. 80% load is the maximum I would ever put on a breaker. Especially for any period of time.

Because you're running short it may not be too much of an issue to upgrade in the future if you plan on something more later on.

Even in your situation I would personally go with the number 8 wire to a subpanel.

Remember not to run Romex through conduit unless you take the jacketing off of the Romex.

You can't triple insulate wires!

The insulation on the actual conductors Plus 1 for protection on the outside.

This can be either a conduit or a Romex jacket.

Wire is rated in temperature and if you insulate the wires too much it can cause a meltdown and then a short circuit and possibly a fire.

 

[scottseabs]

Yes. Will give you a little over head for future power requirements and the heating effect on the wire will be a lot less.

22.917 amps would be 5500 watts at 240 volts.

A number 10 wire is rated for 30 amps.
A number 8 wire is rated for 40 amps.
A number 6 wire is rated for 55 amps.

Personally I like to do everything a little Overkill, by all means the number 10 wire will be fine and you would only have a load around 77% on that circuit. 80% load is the maximum I would ever put on a breaker. Especially for any period of time.

Because you're running short it may not be too much of an issue to upgrade in the future if you plan on something more later on.

Even in your situation I would personally go with the number 8 wire to a subpanel.

Remember not to run Romex through conduit unless you take the jacketing off of the Romex.

You can't triple insulate wires!

The insulation on the actual conductors Plus 1 for protection on the outside.

This can be either a conduit or a Romex jacket.

Wire is rated in temperature and if you insulate the wires too much it can cause a meltdown and then a short circuit and possibly a fire.

Great! This is very helpful, thank you.

 

[augiedoggy]

I had a similar problem except I had to run a hundred feet.

I went down to the local Home Depot And picked up some number 8 Romex. I just ran it in my attic and didn't even bother stapling it down.

Number 10 is good for 30 amps but I wouldn't run number 10 at that rating for very long.

If you're elements are going to pull 30 amps I would make your power run the next size up.

I did the same only I used 10/3 wire which is fine for 30a for my length of 75 ft or so... been using it for 4 years with no problems.
The 20a outlets in my house are wired on the speced 12awg wire as well.(no problems since they were installed in the early 70's).. I figure contractors dont waste money if its not justified so why should I?

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks, MintonHVAC. So if I'll be running one 5500 watt element at a time (30a 240v eBrew set up), because of the length of run, you suggest 8 gauge?

I suggest 10/3 wire as I do the same only I run a 4500w element, an 1800w element and my panel with multiple dc pumps off my 30a circuit and according to my amp meter I never draw over 28 amps even momentarily. I also use a 5500w element for my boil kettle... There is an 80% amp draw rule that someone always brings up here but thats only if you plan on running 30a worth of stuff for over 3 hrs continuous. a 5500w element draws 23 amps at most... most actually draw less as they are rated at peak possible output.

8 awg wire cost quite a bit more and cant be used as an upgrade later as its useless for the 50a upgrade and its harder to run. I guess one could use a 40a main breaker and find 40a outlets and just use a 50a spa panel breaker inline since ive not seen any 40a gfci breakers and imagine they are so uncommon they would cost a pretty penny...
So my opinion would be to go with a 50a circuit or just run a regular 30a circuit and skip the "windows millennium" of circuit sizes all together..

 

[scottseabs]

I did the same only I used 10/3 wire which is fine for 30a for my length of 75 ft or so... been using it for 4 years with no problems.
The 20a outlets in my house are wired on the speced 12awg wire as well.(no problems since they were installed in the early 70's).. I figure contractors dont waste money if its not justified so why should I?

Thanks for the responses. How did you run the wire?

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks for the responses. How did you run the wire?

I fished it up the hollow wall behind the panel in a closet of my old house and ran it across the attic in the very far corner where there would be no chance of things being set on top of it and damaging it. I ran it stright down to the spa panel mounted on a piece of plywood mounted to the wall in the spare bedroom I converted to brew in.

 

[itsnotrequired]

going beyond what code requires generally isn't a problem but can have unintended consequences. for example, running #10 conductor for standard duplex receptacles. the back stabs on receptacles are only rated up to a maximum #12 conductor so with a #10, one would have to use the screw connections. the increased conductor size can also impact box fill calculations (in this example, the box in the wall that the receptacle is installed in). there is only so much 'stuff' that can be placed in the box and still meet code. larger conductors can be an issue. so if going beyond what code requires, think through what the pros/cons may be, it isn't as simple as 'bigger is better'.

and it is fine to run nm cable (romex) in conduit for indoor applications. you shouldn't be stripping the jacket off and running through conduit, that would violate the cable listing. if looking to use individual conductors in a conduit, get some thhn or thwn conductors.

 

[LarMoeCur]

I am in the midst of changing over to all electric. I’ll be Brewing in my heated garage, can’t wait! I am comfortable with the electric, but have a question about the best method for running wire. I’ll be using a 30a gfci breaker and 4 prong dryer outlet.

The breaker box is on one side of the garage and the Brewing area is on the other, 80+ feet away give or take. I was going to use 10/4 sjooc and just staple it up and out of sight. I was also thinking about running it through the attic above as well, stapling down every 48”

Has anyone had this length of run? If so. What did you end up doing?

I ran 120' of 6/4 for my 50a brewery. Do you plan on ever selling the house? If so, save you a major headache and run it to code. Codes are different all around the country and can be tricky to figure out. Inspectors will sniff out your hidden run. That's what they are paid to do. Secondly, your insurance company could deny your claim if you burn your house up because you didn't follow code.

Here in Texas romex and sjooc cannot be run exposed in the garage. You either have to use shielded wire (flexible metal sheathing) or conduit, but romex cannot be run through conduit because it creates more heat. So the cost will increase substantially.

I recommend running romex through the wall and up into the attic. Cheaper and easier. Not sure what your area code would be but again in Texas it calls for a staple/support every 4' and if you are within 6' of an entry to the attic the nomex must be protected. Protected can be two pieces of wood on each side of the romex so you cannot step directly on it or bore holes. If you have an external breaker box then I've heard you can run romex in conduit (to protect it) going into your attic as long as it's less than 6' and not a wet environment.

A quick google search for electrical codes in your area will put in the right direction. It's easier then it sounds. More time consuming than hard to make sure your within code.

 

[scottseabs]

I ran 120' of 6/4 for my 50a brewery. Do you plan on ever selling the house? If so, save you a major headache and run it to code. Codes are different all around the country and can be tricky to figure out. Inspectors will sniff out your hidden run. That's what they are paid to do. Secondly, your insurance company could deny your claim if you burn your house up because you didn't follow code.

Here in Texas romex and sjooc cannot be run exposed in the garage. You either have to use shielded wire (flexible metal sheathing) or conduit, but romex cannot be run through conduit because it creates more heat. So the cost will increase substantially.

I recommend running romex through the wall and up into the attic. Cheaper and easier. Not sure what your area code would be but again in Texas it calls for a staple/support every 4' and if you are within 6' of an entry to the attic the nomex must be protected. Protected can be two pieces of wood on each side of the romex so you cannot step directly on it or bore holes. If you have an external breaker box then I've heard you can run romex in conduit (to protect it) going into your attic as long as it's less than 6' and not a wet environment.

A quick google search for electrical codes in your area will put in the right direction. It's easier then it sounds. More time consuming than hard to make sure your within code.

Thanks for the response. I'm in MN and a little research has yielded the state follows the NEC. It looks like it falls in line with code requirements of what you have in TX.

 

[augiedoggy]

I ran 120' of 6/4 for my 50a brewery. Do you plan on ever selling the house? If so, save you a major headache and run it to code. Codes are different all around the country and can be tricky to figure out. Inspectors will sniff out your hidden run. That's what they are paid to do. Secondly, your insurance company could deny your claim if you burn your house up because you didn't follow code.

Here in Texas romex and sjooc cannot be run exposed in the garage. You either have to use shielded wire (flexible metal sheathing) or conduit, but romex cannot be run through conduit because it creates more heat. So the cost will increase substantially.

I recommend running romex through the wall and up into the attic. Cheaper and easier. Not sure what your area code would be but again in Texas it calls for a staple/support every 4' and if you are within 6' of an entry to the attic the nomex must be protected. Protected can be two pieces of wood on each side of the romex so you cannot step directly on it or bore holes. If you have an external breaker box then I've heard you can run romex in conduit (to protect it) going into your attic as long as it's less than 6' and not a wet environment.

A quick google search for electrical codes in your area will put in the right direction. It's easier then it sounds. More time consuming than hard to make sure your within code.

Good point, I have no intention of leaving a 30a 240v circuit in my spare bedroom when I eventually rent both sides of this duplex out. its there for my brewery and will be removed when I move the brewery. a 240v line ran into a garage can be a useful thing for people who use large power tools and such to have.

 

[itsnotrequired]

Thanks for the response. I'm in MN and a little research has yielded the state follows the NEC. It looks like it falls in line with code requirements of what you have in TX.

i should have clarified that my comments are based on the 'regular' NEC, 2014 version. it is not at all uncommon for local municipalities to enforce different code year revisions, include additional exceptions/amendments, etc. if looking to go a full code-compliant route, you'll want to look at your municipality's website to see what is enforced. or may need to call if it is a small municipality. hell, there are areas of the country that technically don't fall under any electrical jurisdiction so it could be argued that folks there can do 'whatever they want'.