Best temp to steep grains?

[davidabcd]

I want to get the most out of the pound or four of grains I steep. Th recipes I use usually say something about 170F. Would I benefit from steeping at 154 which is a number I see a lot with AG? Is there a magic number? I've been less attentive to this part of the process regarding temperature than maybe I should. I was only thinking "color" since it's not a large percentage of the fermentables. I'm now thinking that this bit could improve, however slightly, the final product.
Thank you.

 

[myndflyte]

The 150s range is used for AG because it is the optimal temperature that amylase enzyme converts starches to sugar. With steeping grains, the starches have already been converted so all you need to do is wash the sugar off the grains. Any temp between 150 - 170 is fine. Some even cold steep overnight.

 

[davidabcd]

The 150s range is used for AG because it is the optimal temperature that amylase enzyme converts starches to sugar. With steeping grains, the starches have already been converted so all you need to do is wash the sugar off the grains. Any temp between 150 - 170 is fine. Some even cold steep overnight.

Thanks.
If I'm steeping a couple of pounds of 2-row malt, isn't that the same grain that AG would use but in a much larger quantity? I guess I don't understand how the starches have already been converted. I'm just trying to get a handle on this.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

There are base grains, (2-row, 6-row, Maris Otter, Pale Ale, Pilsner) that are not converted and require mashing.

And there are specialty grains (aka steeping grains like Crystal, chocolate) that are pre-converted and only require a means to get the sugars out of the chaff.

 

[myndflyte]

Thanks.
If I'm steeping a couple of pounds of 2-row malt, isn't that the same grain that AG would use but in a much larger quantity? I guess I don't understand how the starches have already been converted. I'm just trying to get a handle on this.

Well when you said steeping, I assumed you were using grains that didn't need to be mashed. If you're using 2-row, then yes, you're doing a partial mash and would need to mash similar to AG. Maybe if you list the recipe you are doing, we can give you a better idea of the process.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I'm just trying to get a handle on this.

http://howtobrew.com/book/introduction

The sections on Extract w Steeping and All Grain will explain much of it.

 

[kh54s10]

Thanks.
If I'm steeping a couple of pounds of 2-row malt, isn't that the same grain that AG would use but in a much larger quantity? I guess I don't understand how the starches have already been converted. I'm just trying to get a handle on this.

There are base grains, (2-row, 6-row, Maris Otter, Pale Ale, Pilsner) that are not converted and require mashing.

And there are specialty grains (aka steeping grains like Crystal, chocolate) that are pre-converted and only require a means to get the sugars out of the chaff.

2-row is not usually steeped. They give very little flavor, aroma or color to a beer. They are usually the main source of sugars in a recipe. The grains need to be mashed in order to convert. The temperature range for that would be between 148 for a dry beer and 156 for a very sweet beer.

The darker grains are what are usually steeped. They add flavor, aroma, and color.

Partial (Mini) mash would be basically doing half extract, half all grain. You mash the grains, add extract for the rest of the sugars and sometimes add top up water.

 

[davidabcd]

There are base grains, (2-row, 6-row, Maris Otter, Pale Ale, Pilsner) that are not converted and require mashing.

And there are specialty grains (aka steeping grains like Crystal, chocolate) that are pre-converted and only require a means to get the sugars out of the chaff.

That is making it very clear. I appreciate it.

 

[kh54s10]

For steeping grains I always put the grains in water that is hot and heating. I then steep for 20 minutes and watch the temperature of the water. When it reaches 170 it is usually 20 minutes give or take a couple minutes. If early I take it off the heat. If 20 minutes and less than 170 that is fine. It has worked well that way for me.

 

[davidabcd]

So with those responses, I get it now. It was just my misunderstanding between the two kinds. I had all grains lumped into one category. I guess, now that I think of it, I haven't seen any recipes that call for 12 pounds of chocolate malt. Thanks a lot. It's nice to have that info straight.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

So, should we bless with his head by mentioning adjuncts?

Oh, wait ...

 

[davidabcd]

For steeping grains I always put the grains in water that is hot and heating. I then steep for 20 minutes and watch the temperature of the water. When it reaches 170 it is usually 20 minutes give or take a couple minutes. If early I take it off the heat. If 20 minutes and less than 170 that is fine. It has worked well that way for me.

Yeah, I like that method.
I haven't had any real problems because following a recipe is easy now. But I kept seeing "154F" for the AG and wondered if I was doing something wrong by not using that number. Thanks to this thread, I have it squared away now.

 

[davidabcd]

So, should we bless with his head by mentioning adjuncts?

Oh, wait ...

I do think that was funny.

 

[myndflyte]

If you're doing an extract batch, typically any specialty grains don't need to be mashed but if it has kilned malts like biscuit, Victory, special roast, aromatic, etc, they need to be mashed and need some 2-row in it to convert it. Otherwise, any specialty grains just need to be soaked in water.

 

[nrjones89]

I actually steep just around 120ish. You really don't need to go that high. Some sources online even suggest that mash temps for steeping will lead to astringency.

 

[carlk47]

What is everyone’s thoughts on throwing the steeping grains in the cold water just as you fire the kettle up to heat to boil and pull them at 170? Is that an acceptable practice or does it cause any issues?

 

[balrog]

What is everyone’s thoughts on throwing the steeping grains in the cold water just as you fire the kettle up to heat to boil and pull them at 170? Is that an acceptable practice or does it cause any issues?

That's the most often used method. The 120 mentioned about might be a little low, but the amount of color/flavor extracted may not be that much different than 150 or 170.

 

[InspectorJon]

Taking this thought process in a slightly different direction. Mash efficiency goes down with higher gravity wort in an all grain process. If one were to leave the specialty malts out of the original mash thereby decreasing the grain to water ratio for mashing this might increase efficiency? The specialty grains could then be steeped in the hot wort after lautering?

 

[kh54s10]

I actually steep just around 120ish. You really don't need to go that high. Some sources online even suggest that mash temps for steeping will lead to astringency.

I don't think there is any risk of astringency unless you go well over 170 degrees. It mash temperatures would do it, wouldn't every all grain batch be astringent? I have done about 10 extract batches along with 4 partial mash and a total of 102 batches. All the extract batches were taken from hot water to 170. None of them or any of the others have had any astringency.

 

[STMF]

What is everyone’s thoughts on throwing the steeping grains in the cold water just as you fire the kettle up to heat to boil and pull them at 170? Is that an acceptable practice or does it cause any issues?

This is also what I usually do aswell. It makes the process very easy and replicable. I pull them up around 150F though but would not care if it was as high as 165F. 170F would probably be fine but on the high end.

 

[Tombstone0]

I don't think there is any risk of astringency unless you go well over 170 degrees. It mash temperatures would do it, wouldn't every all grain batch be astringent? I have done about 10 extract batches along with 4 partial mash and a total of 102 batches. All the extract batches were taken from hot water to 170. None of them or any of the others have had any astringency.

The argument is that you have a very small amount of grain in a very large amount of water so the PH would be high which at high temperatures will extract tannins. Whether that happens or not in practice I don’t know.

 

[davidabcd]

That might be why all the recipes I follow say steep in 3 quarts of water or some such. I think I dodge a lot of bullets simply by following a recipe as written (by experienced brewers) even though I don't necessarily know the exact reasoning. It's good to know though provided that the longest word I have to read is "astringent".
I've hit 180 before but only for about five minutes of the half hour in a Tripel. It was accidental and I thought that my beer world had ended but it still turned out great. I'm not going to test that on purpose but it's good to know it wasn't a fatal error.
Reading here on HBT has stopped my practice of choking the grain bag dry and only rinsing. It's just how I do it. Even when I rung out the grain bag like I was doing laundry on a washing board, I didn't notice any difference. But I am happy rinsing it now with a quart of water above the kettle.

 

[tektonjp]

Taking this thought process in a slightly different direction. Mash efficiency goes down with higher gravity wort in an all grain process. If one were to leave the specialty malts out of the original mash thereby decreasing the grain to water ratio for mashing this might increase efficiency? The specialty grains could then be steeped in the hot wort after lautering?

Lautering? Steeping is the method used in conjunction with extract brewing. There is no mash process so to speak. Efficiency here is based upon the amount of extract used.