Best overall gun... Target, hunting, home defense, shtf

[cwi]

(I didn't use color, unsure what you mean)

I see it, do you not?

I would just like to see one semi-qualified "defense instructor" like Ayoob or Clint Smith (anyone similar is fine) that says this is a good idea.

Do either of them parade around in black military cargo pants, and a polo shirt with patches from guns and ammo makers all over it? Or talk at length about where the best place is for the 'shower gun'? Or talk about 'forward deploying' reserve supplies. Those are the only types I know of that refer to themselves as 'defense instructors'.

Why would you need someone else to tell you that avoiding a situation is the best option? That you know the names of more than one preferred 'defense instructor' off the top of your head, makes me think we have different views of home defense- I am talking about how to prevent zombies from getting my brain, and from what I hear you have to sever their head to take them down.

 

[cwi]

Damn skippy on prices. I was just outback with the ruger air hawk .177. Fun and way more affordable.

Don't forget stealthy. I miss having a pellet rifle. I need to look into the clones of the piston based RWS style with the side cocking. The break barrel cocking is a little goofy, and can hurt your hands if you slip. I will have to review the .22 vs. .177 caliber trade offs again. I can't remember which one was flatter. The knockdown didn't seem as important as penetration, which the ammo below solves for either caliber.

Have you tried the Beeman machined ammo with the triple sealing rings and pointed front?
Pricier than normal pellets, but very effective. Although, it may only be available in .20 cal (common for Beeman, and the gun I used it with). Regular pellets usually just bounce off tree rats >25 yds. I used to be on 'squirrel patrol', when I worked at a country club in college. Just like in Caddy Shack, you really did have to act like a golfer, at least after they got wise to me. The greens keeper actually clued me in on it (he also called those pointy pellets 'cop killer pellets'). If I tried to be silent, they would run. Put a couple of bags on the cart with clubs rattling around...

 

[liquiditynerd]

I haven't seen them. Right now I have daisy pointed. The ruger goes to 1000 fps and stops small game at 30 yards. I'm going Friday for squirrel and rabbit. If it'll stop raining.

Good point on stealth. I got it when those buggers stripped a 30 foot row of broccoli that had just started to produce. I later figured out that, as OP mentioned SHTF, it can put dinner on the table without everyone in a mile knowing I'm there.

So there you go OP, target, hunting, SHTF. That's 3 outta 4. Sorta lol. I know, I know you want the 16 ga.

 

[cwi]

I haven't seen them. Right now I have daisy pointed. The ruger goes to 1000 fps and stops small game at 30 yards. I'm going Friday for squirrel and rabbit. If it'll stop raining.

Anything pointed is better than those 'dum dum' pellets I used as a kid. I think RWS makes an equivalent version, and may shoot even better. The machined ammo seals better, and is much more accurate.

I see the Ruger is a piston style as well. Much better than all that pumping, and usually more powerful. I prefer the side cocking, but the $300+ RWS used to be the only one choice- along with some cheap chinese clones.

 

[whoaru99]

High velocity air guns make as much, perhaps more noise, than something like one of the "quiet" 22 caliber rimfires and typically have less power in doing so.

As well, in my neck of the woods, there is no differentiation between an air rifle and a firearm in regards to shooting within City limits. So, I'm not pissing around with any air rifles even though some are OK.

 

[Rys06Tbss]

I have been watching this thread for a bit... I should have responded sooner. I have an AR15 that I used to keep under my bed. Problem with that is it shoots at 3000 FPS which will tear through walls and potentially hit loved ones on the other side. I have a 1911 with 1000 FPS hollow points loaded in my night stand. I feel a bit better using that but that doesnt fit into the hunting portion of this thread. I honestly would probally reach for my Mossberg 500 with 3" 00 Buck. That gun is very trustworthy. I have about 8k rounds through it since I bought it 3 years ago. I have killed alot of clays with it and done a fair amount of hunting. If I were to pick another HD gun it would probally be a boom stick for sure.

 

[Tex]

Rock salt is just as dangerous as shot as some ranges, and bird shot is just as 'safe' as salt at some ranges.

There is no way rock salt is as dangerous as bird shot at any range. Even at point blank rock salt will do far less damage than lead shot.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm

 

[cwi]

There is no way rock salt is as dangerous as bird shot at any range. Even at point blank rock salt will do far less damage than lead shot.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm

Did you even bother to read the backing evidence you posted?

Also, I was not trying to say that rock salt could be used as an alternative load for defense. I was saying that it was still dangerous, which it is. As for gauging its 'dangerousness', your link shows rock salt can kill you at close range, but I discovered bird shot can kill you at least three times at the same range, so you may be correct after all. Here is a link to my evidence: www.Iambeingsarcastic.com

Same goes for losing an eye at much greater distances than will kill you.

 

[brandonhagen1]

Check out S&W Governor, 410, .45 ACP and .45 colt

Ya I've seen them judge is about the same

 

[gizmodog51]

wow! your are cutting a wide path there.....best all around gun...for what situation?

home defense?....pump shotgun, rem defender is a good one.

small caliber handgun plinker? .22cal ruger, walter, beratta, S&W...infinite......

medium caliber target? revolver...older S&W or COLT ($$) .38cal WC

semi auto large caliber handgun? everyone luvs the 1911 or H&K, also springfield XD, and many others.....infinite....

semi auto medium caliber? 9mm see above list plus steyr....this is a popular caliber for about every gun maker a worldwide caliber......

rifles small caliber target /plinking/hunt small game, CZ any model
CZ also makes center fire too. excellent product for money. ruger, older 22s from the fifties......

WWII milsurp...1906 spgfld, M1 , Enfld, Mauser, Mosin/nagant.....again your choice.

semi-assualt AK47 , FN-FAL, M-16 series, H&K93, and others........

the best all around gun is the one you own when you need it most!

this subject is a can of worms for debate as people and guns are as diverse as people and beer styles.......

GD

 

[rpe290]

I see it, do you not?


Do either of them parade around in black military cargo pants, and a polo shirt with patches from guns and ammo makers all over it? Or talk at length about where the best place is for the 'shower gun'? Or talk about 'forward deploying' reserve supplies. Those are the only types I know of that refer to themselves as 'defense instructors'.

Why would you need someone else to tell you that avoiding a situation is the best option? That you know the names of more than one preferred 'defense instructor' off the top of your head, makes me think we have different views of home defense- I am talking about how to prevent zombies from getting my brain, and from what I hear you have to sever their head to take them down.

Sooo...this is just your personal opinion now, you didn't "read it" anywhere?

Hey, we are all entitled to our opinion, and I am certainly no training guy or anything else (never took any "tactical class" or anything like that--no cargo pants in my closet), but I prefer to at least listen to guys "whom have studied it" opinions, and then deduce my own opinion (using that information if I deem it reasonable). I've really only seen a few portions of their shows when I got that DirecTV channel for a few weeks (outdoors or something) and thru reading Shooting Times articles and such.

 

[cwi]

Sooo...this is just your personal opinion now, you didn't "read it" anywhere?

No. I have heard it, read it, seen it, had a friend actually employ it successfully, etc.
I asked the rhetorical question as to why you would need someone else to tell you what is common sense, because so many people turn off their brains when reading, hearing, seeing some 'expert'- especially the shaved head, full night raid BDU clad 'defense instructors' that are common on 'gun shows', these days most of which are to practical home gun use, as Martha Stewart is to practical home crafts. They are some kind of diversion for guys whose fantasy is coming home to a house filled with drug addled tax and spend foreign terrorist immigrants here illegally, and finally being able to use the tip from the gun show about how to shave .2 seconds off the time to swap a clip by strengthening your release lever finger with twice daily pinky curls.

I can't count the amount of times I have heard/read/seen the advice to announce you are armed, including cycling/cocking, as a deterrent/first line of defense (if escape isn't an option). I have never heard the advice to move silently to a good ambush point so you retain the element of surprise, except from fringe dwellers. I reject that advice, just as I would reject advice from fringe dwellers at the other extreme if they advocated walking up to the invader and trying to get him to 'hug it out' with you.

Hey, we are all entitled to our opinion, and I am certainly no training guy or anything else (never took any "tactical class" or anything like that--no cargo pants in my closet), but I prefer to at least listen to guys "whom have studied it" opinions, and then deduce my own opinion (using that information if I deem it reasonable).

As long as you gather information from sources on all sides, especially centrists, and also including yourself, to use in forming your opinion.

I've really only seen a few portions of their shows when I got that DirecTV channel for a few weeks (outdoors or something) and thru reading Shooting Times articles and such.

You have seen those shows, yet you still seek their opinions? Are you sure your deducer is working?

 

[C38368]

I have been watching this thread for a bit... I should have responded sooner. I have an AR15 that I used to keep under my bed. Problem with that is it shoots at 3000 FPS which will tear through walls and potentially hit loved ones on the other side. I have a 1911 with 1000 FPS hollow points loaded in my night stand. I feel a bit better using that but that doesnt fit into the hunting portion of this thread. I honestly would probally reach for my Mossberg 500 with 3" 00 Buck. That gun is very trustworthy. I have about 8k rounds through it since I bought it 3 years ago. I have killed alot of clays with it and done a fair amount of hunting. If I were to pick another HD gun it would probally be a boom stick for sure.

.45 ACP and 00 buck will penetrate just as readily as .223 Rem, and retain more lethality in doing do. Not to suggest that .223 won't also be lethal, but it will be less so. This isn't true of all rifle rounds at all, but the .224 bullet's combination of shape, weight and speed all play into it.

Anyway, on topic: probably a shotgun, if you're willing to bring along extra barrels. A .22LR (and nowadays, it's tough to beat a Ruger 10/22) is the other obvious choice. Ammo is light and relatively cheap, it's an effective round for small game and can be used to take large game, is unlikely to penetrate two sheets of drywall, and is fairly quiet to shoot. An AR comes next, if only for the modularity of design. But see, shotgun, above.

 

[707]

Since they are living in beer, are the gators sloppy drunks, or mean drunks? It would make a significant difference in a crim's decision.

Shoooooot... those aley-gators are mean. Real mean.

 

[haus88]

True. And back to stealth ill just use my bow or use cb caps (which are dead quiet impact is loud tho)

 

[Oldskooler]

I was just in the local Walmart 30 minutes ago, and they had a big sign posted NO AR 15's and we don't know when will receive any

 

[rpe290]

No. I have heard it, read it, seen it, had a friend actually employ it successfully, etc.
snip

I can't count the amount of times I have heard/read/seen the advice to announce you are armed, including cycling/cocking, as a deterrent/first line of defense (if escape isn't an option). snip

And still you have no sources. Good for you, then?

 

[cwi]

And still you have no sources. Good for you, then?

2 + 2 = 4
Do you need a source for that, too?
Or maybe you need it explained with fruit- you have 2 apples, and someone give you 2 more, now you have 4 apples.

This is among the most common and long standing HD advice given. If you have never heard/read/seen it for yourself, you have been spending too much time on pinky curls following advice from your man crush on the TV gun show.

I have read this in actual print media, before the internet. Do you really expect me to go to the library and dig up an old mag, then fax it to you? Or maybe clip it out, and mail it to you?

Better yet, do you really think that it wouldn't be trivial to find a source, even a reputable one, for this? I am surprised you haven't asked for a source for the 'sniper's nest' tactic, and even that one would be easy enough to find a source for, even if it was just from pillow talk with someone's man crush.

To remain consistent, here is a link to a source I found:
www.Youhavenocommonsense.com

 

[whoaru99]

.45 ACP and 00 buck will penetrate just as readily as .223 Rem, and retain more lethality in doing do. Not to suggest that .223 won't also be lethal, but it will be less so. This isn't true of all rifle rounds at all, but the .224 bullet's combination of shape, weight and speed all play into it.

I think that's a serious underestimation of .223 / 5.56 capability. The perps guts are going to look like a bomb went off inside.

 

[rpe290]

2 + 2 = 4
Do you need a source for that, too?
Or maybe you need it explained with fruit- you have 2 apples, and someone give you 2 more, now you have 4 apples.

This is among the most common and long standing HD advice given. If you have never heard/read/seen it for yourself, you have been spending too much time on pinky curls following advice from your man crush on the TV gun show.

I have read this in actual print media, before the internet. Do you really expect me to go to the library and dig up an old mag, then fax it to you? Or maybe clip it out, and mail it to you?

Better yet, do you really think that it wouldn't be trivial to find a source, even a reputable one, for this? I am surprised you haven't asked for a source for the 'sniper's nest' tactic, and even that one would be easy enough to find a source for, even if it was just from pillow talk with someone's man crush.

To remain consistent, here is a link to a source I found:
www.Youhavenocommonsense.com

LOL, you must have some real personal insecurities.

Good luck with that...

 

[cwi]

LOL, you must have some real personal insecurities.

Good luck with that...

Thanks for the psychoanalysis.
What's your excuse?
My guess is SFB.

 

[C38368]

I think that's a serious underestimation of .223 / 5.56 capability. The perps guts are going to look like a bomb went off inside.

No, it isn't.

I'm not talking about the wounding capacity of the round; it is phenomenal.
I'm not talking about the lethality of the round; it is more than adequate in many situations.

I'm talking about the likelihood of a .224 bullet penetrating an interior wall and injuring or killing an unintended target on the other side.

Namely, the .224 bullet is light and easily deflected, at least when compared to heavier rounds. The elongated nose of the projectile itself causes increased susceptibility to tumbling and disintegration, given sufficient velocity.

None of this is to day that .223/5.56 won't kill after passing through a wall (or intruder). But it is less likely to do so than many other rounds commonly recommended for home defense. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Grizz]

Can't go wrong with the good ole AK-47

 

[headbanger]

Can't go wrong with the good ole AK-47

If I could only own one rifle, that would be the one.

 

[haus88]

Or I may go with the Thompson center pro hunter. It's a 22lr, 12g, and can be a 50 muzzleloader not too bad

 

[PapsD]

Those are nice guns but storring extra barrels is kind of a PITA.

Though it would be sweet to change calibers easily.

 

[whoaru99]

Not any worse, likely less so, than storing an equivalent number of complete guns.

 

[whoaru99]

None of this is to day that .223/5.56 won't kill after passing through a wall (or intruder). But it is less likely to do so than many other rounds commonly recommended for home defense. That's all I'm saying.

I disagree. I'd take the .223 in a short carbine any day over a handgun in a home defense situation.

Have a good many of them; 380, 38/357, 9mm, 45acp, 44spl/mag, and I'd prefer the .223 in a short carbine over any of them in a CQB situation.

 

[haus88]

I would buy a .223 but they are banned in our area not allowed to buy, if I lived in nj it would be np. And all tac shotguns are now pretty much banned rrrrrrr.

 

[dwtowler]

Ruger 10/22 for hunting, target, the glock model 36 45 cal for everyday carry and home defense.

 

[dwtowler]

Remington 700 308 cal is the best target and hunting rifle I have ever owned

 

[brandonhagen1]

I have a 308 rem savage that I love its an old model 99

 

[C38368]

I disagree. I'd take the .223 in a short carbine any day over a handgun in a home defense situation.

Have a good many of them; 380, 38/357, 9mm, 45acp, 44spl/mag, and I'd prefer the .223 in a short carbine over any of them in a CQB situation.

This does not follow.

I'm advocating the use of a .223 carbine for home defense. It is as lethal as anything else, but less likely to cause collateral damage if (when) you miss. This is exactly why police departments have been transitioning from pistol-caliber subguns to AR-based carbines in recent years.

 

[SmokeNbrew]

Don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but the Kel-Tec KSG...better luck finding a horse with a strap-on tho.

 

[whoaru99]

I'm advocating the use of a .223 carbine for home defense. It is as lethal as anything else, but less likely to cause collateral damage if (when) you miss. This is exactly why police departments have been transitioning from pistol-caliber subguns to AR-based carbines in recent years.

I'd like to see some hard support behind that - not that I doubt they're transitioning, but because I don't believe it's a kinder, gentler approach inasmuch as less collateral damage. I believe it's because the .223 out of a carbine is a better stopper than any handgun cartridge.

 

[PapsD]

It'd probably be difficult to say what a round will do after it goes through a wall. A .223 has a much higher muzzle velocity than most handguns rounds but has a lighter bullet.

Any round that can penetrate 2 sheets of drywall and keep going will be dangerous on the other side of a wall. Especially if it's an FMJ.

You shouldn't pull the trigger if you can't hit what you're aiming at. I think most basic gun safety pamphlets say be sure of your target and what's beyond it.

I read in an article online that said police departments went to the AR-15 to keep pace with drug gangs and because they didn't like the recoil of the 12ga.

 

[whoaru99]

Did you watch the video back in post 99?

Hollowpoints don't expand in drywall either, at least not any good ones. And, if the hollowpoint plugs, it's effectively a FMJ as well. But, go back, check out that video. .223 M193 FMJ doesn't really act like true FMJ, and it's a very, very common round.

If you're worried about blowing through the walls, pretty much any common round will go though two layers and more. If you're looking for something that won't then your option looks to be to use a light shotgun load with pellets toward the smaller side. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/03/ryan-finn/sheetrock-penetration-testing-take-1/

 

[cwi]

I believe it's because the .223 out of a carbine is a better stopper than any handgun cartridge.

Not picking on your post in particular, just using it for context.
I thought I read recently that at least one, if not the reason for law enforcement going to the smaller cal higher power rounds was to defeat body armor, since it's becoming increasingly common on the bad guys.

I was not reading in relation to this discussion, so I didn't pay much attention to it, and may be mistaken. I'm not into the whole bug out, SHTF, CQB, ZA, etc. preparation

 

[PapsD]

I saw the video. That bullet has some interesting terminal ballistics. But it's just one bullet and there was no insulation or piping in the wall.

I was agreeing with you though and that article said nearly the same thing I did in its conclusion.

 

[Natdavis777]

One gun cannot fufill all needs. One sub cant even do so.
Glock 27 for concealed carry
M&P for concealed or open carry
1911 for open carry
Sig 226 for in the car at all times

Tac AR for home defense
Wingmaster for home defense/hunting
Remington 700 .308 for hunting or **** hits fan (really pertains to all guns)
Kodiak .50 muzzleloader = deer killer or gun nice to look at

Either way, multiple guns give multiple purposes. No one gun will fufuill that. Case in point, BUY MORE GUNS!! and online ammo since its ~.40/rd