Belgian Bottle v Force question

[meadowstream]

Lately, I have been making some great dubbels and bottle conditioning. The carbonation is great: ~3.2 volumes and the quality of the carbonation is great. Does anyone find that force carbing belgian dubbels results in the same quality product as bottle conditioning?

I know that it probably shouldn't make a difference, but so far it seems better out of the bottle... Has anyone found the same thing, or the opposite, or found that it makes no difference? If so, what do you do that might account for your experience?

 

[smokinghole]

I prefer beers that are bottle unpasteurized and bottle conditioned opposed to kegged versions of the same thing. The interaction of the beer with the yeast has flavor to offer that's for sure.

 

[Native302]

Bottle conditioned and carbonated is way better IMHO

 

[JetSmooth]

Key to a Belgian's flavor, IMHO, is the yeast. More yeasties, more flavor.

I even like to kick up the sediment a little with the last glass out of a 750ml bottle.

 

[meadowstream]

A typical batch of dubbel is starting out at 1.080 and ending at 1.012. The starter is big and with aeration, there is also strong yeast propagation during initial lag stage. I am not certain, but I think that because my beer is handled in the absence of oxygen, more yeast are not being produced in much quantity when another 6 oz of sucrose per 5 gallon corny is added for bottling.

There probably is some small amount of oxygen, which is probably immediately scavenged. Yeast add 2 molecules of CO2 for each glucose consumed - plus 2 ethanol (when anaerobic.)

I agree that bottle conditioning tastes better to me. But, there should not be appreciably less yeast in a force carbed beer...right? Some claim the bubbles are finer in a bottle conditioned beer...true? Is it possible that a minute amount of additional yeast does produce a detectably better taste?

 

[smokinghole]

A typical batch of dubbel is starting out at 1.080 and ending at 1.012. The starter is big and with aeration, there is also strong yeast propagation during initial lag stage. I am not certain, but I think that because my beer is handled in the absence of oxygen, more yeast are not being produced in much quantity when another 6 oz of sucrose per 5 gallon corny is added for bottling.

There probably is some small amount of oxygen, which is probably immediately scavenged. Yeast add 2 molecules of CO2 for each glucose consumed - plus 2 ethanol (when anaerobic.)

I agree that bottle conditioning tastes better to me. But, there should not be appreciably less yeast in a force carbed beer...right? Some claim the bubbles are finer in a bottle conditioned beer...true? Is it possible that a minute amount of additional yeast does produce a detectably better taste?

While there isn't less more more yeast in a bottled vs keg conditioned beer I think the distinction lies in serving. Unless you shake up the keg each day to resuspend the yeast that has settled to the bottom you get less yeast in each glass when compared to a bottle conditioned beer. While we try to leave the bottle sediment behind usually you always get some of it at the end of the pour. If you're pouring from a 750ml bottle into a 12-15oz glass you will end up pouring twice and subsequently mixing the bottom of the bottle into the second pour.

 

[meadowstream]

Are you saying that you want sediment mixed up in your beer and that contributes to taste character that you like?

I try to pour into 2 goblets continuously until the sediment comes to the shoulder of the bottle. More sediment, in my opinion, detracts from flavor.

And when I keg, typically lots of sediment collects at the bottom and my first glass or two is cloudy (and not very tasty!) because of the yeast. Left undisturbed, additional glasses will stay clear. In an IPA or EPA/bitter, I actually prefer kegged beer. But the Belgian beers seem to be noticeably better in a bottle. IMO.

 

[cfonnes]

Now I have to brew the Rochefort 8 clone again and keg it. Then do a side by side comparison.

 

[smokinghole]

Are you saying that you want sediment mixed up in your beer and that contributes to taste character that you like?

I try to pour into 2 goblets continuously until the sediment comes to the shoulder of the bottle. More sediment, in my opinion, detracts from flavor.

And when I keg, typically lots of sediment collects at the bottom and my first glass or two is cloudy (and not very tasty!) because of the yeast. Left undisturbed, additional glasses will stay clear. In an IPA or EPA/bitter, I actually prefer kegged beer. But the Belgian beers seem to be noticeably better in a bottle. IMO.

Not saying lots of sediment improves the taste. However it is my bull**** theory that you get more yeast/sediment when pouring from a bottle in the glass than you do serving from a keg. It's all because like you said first couple are cloudy but the rest stay clear unless you disturb the keg.

 

[meadowstream]

Good theory smokinghole.

 

[smokinghole]

I think it's crap and lacks serious backing by evidence. However another possible difference is that it's a surface area thing. I know a lot of the belgian producers lay their bottles on the side during conditioning. That gives a larger surface area of yeast for the beer to interact with instead of the small bit at the bottom.

 

[meadowstream]

LOL well that is another theory. I would think that the additional surface area probably plays no role - not really convinced that there is additional surface area!